RWBY Class M Lifting Strength Downgrade

[WeeklyBattles]

Magic tar don't forget that. It's an odd black substance that does weird things like spawn these creatures.

Yes, liquid tar is the closest approximation, which is much denser than water, 1153 kg/m³ vs 997 kg/m³.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Talking about the truck incident which happened in a different volume, not the plane.

Even normal Atlas soldiers can stop a car with their bare hands, which Ruby has witnessed, and Ruby in the same volume witnessed Yang stop the Atlesian Paladin with her bare hands, witnessed Pyrrha lift several metric tons of metal with her semblance with no remarks about being shocked at their strength. Its less 'Ruby is shocked that someone could be that strong' and more 'Ruby is shocked that this girl she barely knows is strong'.

I argue that there are more cases where characters quickly recovering from Aura exhaustion and keep fighting shortly after, than there are cases of characters becoming useless after Aura exhaustion.

Thats actually canonically not a thing. Fast aura recovery rates are extremely rare throughout the series and are treated as anomalies, such as the case with Hazel and Jaune.

If Sun could barely lift it with the clones, then he doesn't stand much of a chance normally.

Again, Sun's semblance drains his aura and stamina proportional to the number of clones he summons, requires significant concentration to maintain, and he already has less aura and stamina due to coming out of two consecutive fights, against the Albain brothers and then immediately fighting Ilia.

The bad luck Semblance doesn't nerf Qrow's physical capabilities as far as I am aware. If only Qrow had enough muscle power to give the bomb a shove, instead of the bomb pushing him back...
Qrow and the bomb were not actually situated on some extreme angle by the way. Qrow just lacked the lifiting strength.

Except...he visibly did stop the bomb for quite a while, and they were in fact on an incline as Harriet literally punched the back end of the ship into tilting upwards to make the bomb fall out, and the RWBY wiki even acknowledges it as being caused by his semblance

And now we are having a new CRT to review the evidence and evaluate new evidence.
Bones make up about 15% of a human's weight.
They have tar-like substance that evaporates inside. No confirmation about internal organs or blood.

From Before the Dawn:

The Jackalope in the pit roared as it struggled in the sand and slowly sank into the ground. When it opened its mouth, sand flew inside. The Grimm began to expand until it exploded, sending out more sand and tacky black Grimm matter that coated Coco. Though Carmine easily diverted it away from herself. Coco wiped a hand across her cheek and examined the tarlike substance before it dispersed into smoke.

They don't even need to eat, so comparision to the biology of normal animals is dubious at best.

Like i said to Insert, if you want to argue that their physiology should be based on tar rather than water that would lead to some decent upgrades, but Grimm do in fact have biology as they can be genetically altered and mutated. Plus we have tons of verses on this wiki that have physiology way more unnatural than the Grimm but they are not disallowed from having their density being considered the same as water, its a standard assumption on the wiki to use water as density. 'They evaporate when they die' isnt enough evidence to disprove them being non-water in density, you'd need actual instances of them depicted or stated as being significantly lighter than a creature of an equivalent size would be.

Can you explain what application specifically you are talking about? She did this in the beginning of the volume:

The application that she uses throughout the entirety of the post timeskip series. Her semblance isnt just running fast its turning into that whirlwind of petals but she was canonically unable to do so at will before the timeskip without straining herself, before the timeskip she hadnt mastered her semblance so the most she was able to do without immediately straining herself was running faster.

Her basic application is speed, and this is all what she did. She is not doing any fancy molecular level transmutation and assembly/disassembly of rose petals. She was even showing signs of strain before she even started moving as soon as she lifted Penny.

Correction, her basic application before the timeskip is speed.

In fact, Gray in the volume commentary states that Ruby ran out of steam since she is not used to carrying so much mass:

Monty: And then this, and this thing. Kerry: Yeah he, Gray: You guys spent forever on how to look like, make it read that she was running out of steam early 'cause she's never had experience with that... Kerry: Yeah. Gray: ...that much mass before.

I don't know about you, but it doesn't seem like Penny weighs 1000000-1000000000 kg. The average human weighs about 60 kg.

Seems more like an instance of writers not knowing how to do math as Crescent Rose was calced to be over 100 kg and she can carry it around with no issue as well as the numerous other feats she has that are well above Penny's weight. Then again they could be talking about her not being able to carry much while also using her semblance, which due to her lack of mastery of it at the time could make sense but wouldnt contradict her general lifting strength as much as it would just be a weakness of her Beacon Arc semblance that she cant carry stuff other than herself and Crescent Rose while using it without exhausting herself.

Interesting. So for a character to do seemingly Tier 9 and Tier 8 feats, they necessarily must be really really heavy weight-wise.

If theyre doing so through sheer weight/kinetic energy, such as the aforementioned creating craters and cracking the ground by falling, yes

 

[ShadowWhoWalks]

Like i said before, tar is much denser than water. If yall think we should use tar instead of water that would lead to some hefty lifting strength upgrades

Yes, liquid tar is the closest approximation, which is much denser than water, 1153 kg/m³ vs 997 kg/m³.

Which type of tar are you specifically refeering to? Petroleum can be as light as 800 kg/m³.

Even normal Atlas soldiers can stop a car with their bare hands, which Ruby has witnessed, and Ruby in the same volume witnessed Yang stop the Atlesian Paladin with her bare hands, witnessed Pyrrha lift several metric tons of metal with her semblance with no remarks about being shocked at their strength. Its less 'Ruby is shocked that someone could be that strong' and more 'Ruby is shocked that this girl she barely knows is strong'.

Sounds like something to scale from. Where has Atlas soldiers stop a speeding car with their bare hands?

Why would Semblances automatically scales to brute physical strength? Do you seriously believe that Goodwitch can physically lift whatever she can lift with telekinesis?

Ruby witnessed the girl she barely knows do this obviously meaning that she already knows that she is no civilian, and stopping the truck was still impressive and extraordinary for Ruby, so...

Thats actually canonically not a thing. Fast aura recovery rates are extremely rare throughout the series and are treated as anomalies, such as the case with Hazel and Jaune.

Oh boy lets go with some examples:
In the White trailer Weiss kept fighting with her Aura nearly depleted and defeated the Arma Gigas.
In Yang's character short she kept fighting with her Aura nearly depleted and one-shot the Ursa with her Semblance.
Tyrian was able to fight Qrow and Clover even though his Aura was shattered before he got captured, and he was able to tank the airship crash better than Robyn did.
In Penny and Winter vs. Cinder, Winter had her Aura shattered, but she was able to fight Cinder shortly after and cut off her Grimm arm.
Winter was able to use summons against Cinder, even though she had her Aura shattered by Ironwood a bit earlier.

Do you really think that Sun was in a much worse shape than they were?

Again, Sun's semblance drains his aura and stamina proportional to the number of clones he summons, requires significant concentration to maintain, and he already has less aura and stamina due to coming out of two consecutive fights, against the Albain brothers and then immediately fighting Ilia.

You are making it seem like his Semblance is useless for lifting things; it is not like it potentially doubles or triples his pushing power, right?

Seems more like an instance of writers not knowing how to do math as Crescent Rose was calced to be over 100 kg and she can carry it around with no issue as well as the numerous other feats she has that are well above Penny's weight. Then again they could be talking about her not being able to carry much while also using her semblance, which due to her lack of mastery of it at the time could make sense but wouldnt contradict her general lifting strength as much as it would just be a weakness of her Beacon Arc semblance that she cant carry stuff other than herself and Crescent Rose while using it without exhausting herself.

We have fantasy metal technology that can fold a minigun into a handbag. No need to assume that the scythe is 100 kg based on real world materials.
What is the relationship between weight and moving fast? She is a million times weaker when she is using her Semblance?

If theyre doing so through sheer weight/kinetic energy, such as the aforementioned creating craters and cracking the ground by falling, yes

You are implying that we can calculate character weights using kinetic energy, which would bring funny results.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Which type of tar are you specifically refeering to? Petroleum can be as light as 800 kg/m³.

Tar volume to weight conversion

Calculate weight of Tar per volume, it weighs 1 153 kg/m³ (71.97944 lb/ft³). Materials, substances and compounds volume to weight conversions

www.aqua-calc.com

Density of Tar in 285 units of density

Tar weighs 1 153 kg/m³ (71.97944 lb/ft³). Densities of other substances, materials, compounds, aquarium gravels and foods

www.aqua-calc.com

Tar

Ruby witnessed the girl she barely knows do this obviously meaning that she already knows that she is no civilian, and stopping the truck was still impressive and extraordinary for Ruby, so...

Yeah, the fact that she saw penny rip an airplane out of the sky with enough force to send multi-ton shipping containers flying before seeing her stop the truck means that more likely than not this is just a case of bad writing, which rwby is infamous for

Oh boy lets go with some examples:
In the White trailer Weiss kept fighting with her Aura nearly depleted and defeated the Arma Gigas.
In Yang's character short she kept fighting with her Aura nearly depleted and one-shot the Ursa with her Semblance.
Tyrian was able to fight Qrow and Clover even though his Aura was shattered before he got captured, and he was able to tank the airship crash better than Robyn did.
In Penny and Winter vs. Cinder, Winter had her Aura shattered, but she was able to fight Cinder shortly after and cut off her Grimm arm.
Winter was able to use summons against Cinder, even though she had her Aura shattered by Ironwood a bit earlier.

Do you really think that Sun was in a much worse shape than they were?

*Aura as a mechanic wasnt a thing in the White trailer
*Yang's semblance doesnt require concentration but was noted as exhausting her after she uses it by Tai
*Tyrian is also a far more experienced huntsman with an inhuman pain tolerance but in the fight against Qrow, Clover, and Robyn, shattering his aura knocked him out
*Okay? Aura dosnt passively increase the user's strength so i dont see how this one matters
*The summons used by Winter in her fight against Cinder were from the Maiden's powers, not her semblance. Semblances are canonically incapable of functioning without Aura.

The issue with all the comparisons you just listed are that non of those semblances are concentration-based. If you wanted to make a comparison look at Marrow, who was only able to use his semblance twice in his fight against Weiss before it completely drains both his aura reserves and his stamina

You are making it seem like his Semblance is useless for lifting things; it is not like it potentially doubles or triples his pushing power, right?

It also increases the strain he experiences as he feels what his clones feel. His clones are also made from his Aura and require a constant supply of Aura to maintain, meaning damage and exertion to his clones is damage to his own Aura.

We have fantasy metal technology that can fold a minigun into a handbag. No need to assume that the scythe is 100 kg based on real world materials.

1. By that logic no verse on the wiki would be calcable under the assumption of 'fiction materials'
2. RWBY has never once introduced the concept of verse-exclusive fictional metals so we have no reason to assume its some unknown light metal

What is the relationship between weight and moving fast? She is a million times weaker when she is using her Semblance?

The relationship is that she puts more strain on her body by using her unmastered semblance. In layman terms yes, in volumes 1-3 she has lower lifting strength when using her semblance.

You are implying that we can calculate character weights using kinetic energy, which would bring funny results.

What im implying is that a normal human falling off a skycraper wouldnt make a crater in the ground yet Grimm jump off buildings and break the ground beneath them when they land. Theyre heavy, theyre not magically less dense. You would need to have actual statements that Grimm are less dense to argue that they are.