Tdjwo
He/Him- 3,312
- 1,489
My bad.
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Rule Violation Reports (New forum)
- Thread starter Antvasima
- Start date
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Don't say things like this.
Tdjwo
He/Him- 3,312
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I'm sorry. Briefly lost my mind because he used past conversations between I and banned user who faked his identity and address to fraudulent tamper a verse which I suspected and turned out to be right as a way to tarnish me. If anything, those warning tags should be removed because it turns out I was right about him all along. Sorry.
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I get that part. Sock puppets and manipulation have happened in the past as well and it has been very damaging at times.
Honestly, no-one is claiming that staff are automatically right. There have definitely been toxic staff in the past. Regarding these two though, KT is only disagreeing and voting unofficially on a thread based on opinions he already held, and Dark Soul is generally a solid community member as well. I'd like to ask you to calm down regarding them, which I appreciate that you already are starting to do.
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Why are you shifting the blame? and completely side stepping my report?
*I reported that you did it in such a public way, NOT that you reported him.
*I reported you for showing a malicious attitude toward other users, exactly what you are doing right now, not toward you doing it specifically toward Wank Braker (A banned user).
*I also mentioned that you were fully right in reporting him repeatedly, so why is that what you're hyperfocusing on that part?
You are doing the exact same thing now that you were originally warned and banned for doing. (and trying to spin it as something else.)
This is my last message. I wasn't planning to send it, but I was not gonna let it get spun into something else.
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Dark Soul this isn't a warning but it's a message to cut it out. This isn't a convo meant to be had
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Let's try to cool things down a little, okay? Lower the heat a bit?
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Yeah, sorry. I wanted to bring up history to show repeated offense regarding the same points (even after official warnings and being banned)
If anything is not helpful for the case, just delete it. I have already said what I wanted to say, and was just making my points clearer, to make sure it was not spun around.
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That's fine, but let's just hold off while admins take a read of things, okay?
Tdjwo
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I've dropped my entire qualms with KT. I dont have any problems with him anymore. Honestly, I dont like having to explain myself back and forth in rvr. It always spirals out of control. Thanks for the intervention @Random-Helper323
As for @Dark_Soul20189 , please stop always trying to mess up my arguments or debates with other people. You did that the entire time when I had arguments with Wankbreaker. Now you're doing this again. Most of the reports had against me in the past were mostly out of malice. Doesn't help others also notice you constantly stalk and nitpick most of my comments. Thats just you targeting me. But yeah, thats all.i gotta say. I'm way past arguing for days now on vsbw.
As for @Dark_Soul20189 , please stop always trying to mess up my arguments or debates with other people. You did that the entire time when I had arguments with Wankbreaker. Now you're doing this again. Most of the reports had against me in the past were mostly out of malice. Doesn't help others also notice you constantly stalk and nitpick most of my comments. Thats just you targeting me. But yeah, thats all.i gotta say. I'm way past arguing for days now on vsbw.
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Thank you for this.
No problem. The RVR thread is often stressful for everyone.
All right, this matter seems like a separate issue. Admins probably have to look at this as well. Honestly, it would be best if things didn't escalate though.
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Just gonna do a small addition here to explain myself.
I have no way targeted Tdjwo more than I would another user in the same situation. So when I do reports, I always do a quick backtracking in their history to see if their actions are consistent or not (normally nothing more than 5 to 20 minutes)
So yeah, not out of malice or stalking, really, if I do the same to everyone. (A quick check on earlier reports from me should be enough to prove that)
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I wasn't accusing anyone, just saying this is a separate accusation. Reporting things that strike you as violations isn't against the rules. The question is whether the strikes should be looked into given the Wankbreaker situation and whether the two of you can avoid each other.
Tdjwo
He/Him- 3,312
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I would actually appreciate this option. He's always the first to say something no matter how little it is to me. Almost like he's watching my every move. Nasuverse supporters can vouch for me on this. If its possible to impose us never seeing each other's comment or even being unable to comment to one another, I would gladly appreciate that.
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@Dark_Soul20189 what do you think on this?
If you want that as well, admins obviously need to be asked about this.
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I really see no reason for it, as mentioned, I have no personal issues with him, but if that is the action the staff thinks is best, I would be fine with it.
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I'm not suggesting or endorsing it, simply responding to his suggestion.
Mahek_The_Assassin_Silent_Killer
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Just curious cause this has happened quite a few times now with people involved in RVR matters arguing in the thread itself:
Is there any sort of way to redirect RVR conversations between non-staff members to a DM or other part of the forum to avoid clogging up the RVR thread while allowing for staff to continue monitoring and to intervene if necessary?
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You could just discuss it in DM's normally.
Mahek_The_Assassin_Silent_Killer
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There's still a risk of further rule-breaching if the DMs are unmonitored/if there are no staff moderating/mediating the DMs (especially if it's a heated argument), but true.
Mr. Bambu
Suffer-Not-Injustice Bambu
VS Battles
Joke Battles
Bureaucrat
Administrator
Calculation Group
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I don't know the history here, I assume there must be some, but this thread alone shows Tdjwo being downright unreasonable. Jumping to conclusions, insisting that any opinion held is because of bias or spite, it isn't constructive at all. Reading through the thread, this was framed on Tdjwo's part as just "pointing out what the staff is doing wrong", but that amounts to just instigatory behavior since it doesn't carry any evidence to support the pretty significant claim of "this OP is doing this to spite me, and this staff member is acting this way out of bias"; mixed with the fact that these are the claims from the word go, I find them contemptible. Tdjwo openly admits he has no interest in helping the discussion, not even debating the point, and rather disrupts the thread inappropriately. Even if he were 100% right about KingTempest, this would be a rule violation in of itself.
Now, I will address the flip side; again, I do not deal in these threads, and if there is evidence (to this, or any other claim of staff bias), I'm going to tell you what to do. Contact HR. With a long list of evidence of the bias. This includes instances where a staff member agrees with an OP where there does not seem to be enough evidence to support their agreement. Or agreeing with something that is easily pointed out as false, or even just agreeing when something has been disproven, and it is unreasonable itself to not see that. This behavior, especially over a long period and in the same trend (that is, towards the benefit/harm of a given verse, especially beyond reasonable ratings, perhaps), would be likely to result in a demotion and possibly a ban. This all also applies to a user, if their actions in this regard break our rules, and can be reported here!
I do not write this to say KingTempest is doing this. I write this to acknowledge that the staff should be held accountable when and if they do something wrong-- this applies to literally every staff member. HR is who we have entrusted to babysit the babysitters. Anyone reading this should take heed of my words above, and work with them, rather than thrash about and get yourselves in trouble, if you firmly believe that there is a case of corruption. Even if you just think a staff member behaves like a ********, get the receipts and show them to HR. It has worked before and I promise you it will work again if it is actually a major issue.
This all amounts to: I think @Tdjwo should receive a light ban for their behavior and doubling down on that behavior after being told to knock it off, mixed with their history of combative behavior. @KingTempest I do think it would behoove you to not engage if it comes to a certain boiling point, which is easier said than done, I know-- sometime before saying "shut the **** up", even if it does mean putting on something of a Customer Service Voice for a post or two. @Samlex1234 I want to extend a warning to; their posts in the thread are combative (but with combat already started, it is harder to judge); however, doubling down on that here in the RVRT is a harsher offense. The street brawl cannot continue within the courthouse. These are my thoughts on the subject.
Tdjwo
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I never insisted that every opinion held against the verse was out of bias. This is you misunderstanding me. Look at the thread again. Several people agreed with the crt which I had no problem with because honestly, their votes doesn't matter at the end of the day if they aren't staff members. I only had issues with the OP (because of the quality of his thread), and KT (because he agreed to the thread despite its low quality). I had no issues with others. You're making it seem like I was picking a fight with everyone that agreed with the OP, which is certainly not the case. Me claiming someone is making decisions out of spite or bias is not against the rules, nor is it report-worthy. Might as well just zip every non-staff member's right when they feel a certain way regarding a staff member's abrupt decisions.
I didn't take it to HR because it wasn't a big issue what taking to HR. This happens a lot with popular verses, and I expected something like that to happen. I just dont dee the need to report him because like I said earlier, I wasn't mad or angry. I was simply observing KT's decision which I felt was a bit malicious. Nothing wrong with me thinking that.
Oh so I get a ban for "doubling down" even after I was the first to call off my arguments with him, but anyone else against me who also said just as much to me gets a pass, seems kinda wild. My "combative history" has been wildly exaggerated if you look at the circumstances and end results of most issues I've been involved in (for instance, the entire dilemma regarding Wankbreaker).
I think your decision is a bit harsh and unfair because I did nothing other than calling out what I felt was some sort of bias from a staff member. Even if he wasn't trying to be biased, I think I still have every right to express my feelings as long as I didn't curse or insult him. But yeah, whatever goes tbh.
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Regarding the KT-adjacent situation, I mostly agree with Bambu here.
In general I think staff members should set an example of being kind and understanding, rather than feeding into drama with aggression, though that doesn't excuse the clear instigating from other members here. From a practical perspective, at least, it should be obvious that telling someone to shut the **** up will lead to completely unnecessary levels of feelings being hurt and subsequent escalation.
That is to say, due to poor handling, I would prefer warnings rather than bans, but I also wouldn't lose sleep over a ban being handed out.
Regarding Sean, I'm growing very tired of this being a recurring issue, and many chances have been given already. I would support a lengthy ban at this point. Even if relatively minor per-instance, we can't tolerate repeated violations forever.
In general I think staff members should set an example of being kind and understanding, rather than feeding into drama with aggression, though that doesn't excuse the clear instigating from other members here. From a practical perspective, at least, it should be obvious that telling someone to shut the **** up will lead to completely unnecessary levels of feelings being hurt and subsequent escalation.
That is to say, due to poor handling, I would prefer warnings rather than bans, but I also wouldn't lose sleep over a ban being handed out.
Regarding Sean, I'm growing very tired of this being a recurring issue, and many chances have been given already. I would support a lengthy ban at this point. Even if relatively minor per-instance, we can't tolerate repeated violations forever.
Mr. Bambu
Suffer-Not-Injustice Bambu
VS Battles
Joke Battles
Bureaucrat
Administrator
Calculation Group
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I understand, though I think this is a semantic issue. When I said "every opinion held", I was referring to those of Tempest's, not of every user. I get how it can come off otherwise. I'm solely talking about your conflict with Tempest here.
Allow me to preach for a moment, not just to you but to everyone present.
Staff bias is a major issue. It is a significant concern. If it is legitimate, it is a fundamental breach of the contract we have on VSBW. If you sincerely believe it, then it should be an utmost concern for you. It violates the basic premise of the wiki. We choose staff from the userbase to entrust them with the safeguarding of the wiki. If we cannot trust the staff to at least attempt to put aside their biases, then this is a farce.
It falls to witnesses to report crimes. HR is not omnipresent nor omniscient. Issues cannot be rectified if they are never brought to light. If you believe a staff member is corruptly using their rights, report them.
This comes with a social contract, however. You cannot simply expect a report of "I feel this person is biased" to be met with dutiful action. You have not provided any reason for HR to warn or demote or ban the staff member involved! Most reports to HR, to the best of my knowledge, are insignificant. They lack the receipts. They make vague allegations with no basis to them. HR is overworked for this very reason: most of the reports to HR are invalid, and require more manpower to work through, while only having those members of HR to rely on.
You (the royal you) have a duty, then: it is your role to keep the staff members honest. It falls to you to report shady shit, because we do not want shady shit going on. It also falls to you to do so responsibly. Pursue your role in this ecosystem with critical thought.
Back to the report at hand: it is not a rule violation to think some way or the other. We have been extremely careful in outlining that in past cases. If you privately feel a staff member is a vapid piece of shit who only votes to push an agenda, that is your right, and we don't particularly care. We care when this is pushed as an actual, real allegation, baselessly, in the midst of a thread, while openly stating that you have no interest in contributing to the discussion. This is, in fact, a rule violation. There is something wrong with that. You can go about handling your thoughts the right way, or you can keep them to yourself (or, of course, off-wiki).
I did look through those, and I do actually agree that the Wankbreaker stuff is generally not-very-bad. But this does not constitute all of your past reports, and your behavior here is to an extent reminiscent of that past behavior. I think it is relevant in making a decision here, even if I do think the number of reports doesn't appropriately relay the significance of the behavior.
My current recommendation is two weeks. After that time is up, my advice would be to simply gather your evidence and speak with HR regarding the matter. I don't know anything about these verses or what goes on in their threads; it is not my aim to incite a witch hunt against KT or any other staff member. But if we are to be kept honest, then honest reports about our behavior are welcome.
This is my end opinion on the matter.
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My opinion on this matter too. If he continued to baselessly accuse others again then we can apply ban.
I do not think that simply citing the user's past reports to help out the case is sufficient ground for a block either.
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- Thread starter
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I think that Bambu's analysis of this situation makes sense, and I definitely don't want KingTempest to resign. If he was extensively used as a trash can/punching bag, I can understand that he eventually got frustrated, and think that he is authorised to hand out thread bans to those extensively engaging in it if they refuse to relent.
That said, I personally usually tend to endure being extensively insulted without retaliation, especially given how culturally opinionated I can be, which is unavoidably a potential trigger for others. My main trigger is usually more related to getting stressed due to very limited available time due to extreme overwork, while others seem to engage in circular nonsensical stonewalling. Beyond a certain point that tends to stress me out due to my time quickly running out when I am already extremely exhausted.
Nevertheless, speaking about the larger topic in general terms, and not this specific situation, staff members are not expected to be flawless, but we still have to make a considerably higher effort than most regular members to try to keep our tempers in check, and although being completely devoid of bias is nearly unatttainable, and I think we are entitled to having our own viewpoints based on sound logic regarding franchises we know well, we should make a continuous effort to not be deliberately biased to apply systematic illogical voting.
That said, I personally usually tend to endure being extensively insulted without retaliation, especially given how culturally opinionated I can be, which is unavoidably a potential trigger for others. My main trigger is usually more related to getting stressed due to very limited available time due to extreme overwork, while others seem to engage in circular nonsensical stonewalling. Beyond a certain point that tends to stress me out due to my time quickly running out when I am already extremely exhausted.
Nevertheless, speaking about the larger topic in general terms, and not this specific situation, staff members are not expected to be flawless, but we still have to make a considerably higher effort than most regular members to try to keep our tempers in check, and although being completely devoid of bias is nearly unatttainable, and I think we are entitled to having our own viewpoints based on sound logic regarding franchises we know well, we should make a continuous effort to not be deliberately biased to apply systematic illogical voting.
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@Shattas keeps posting empty CRT's to promote their existing Michael Myers one.
They explained that it's a mistake though.
They explained that it's a mistake though.
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Thanks.
They said it was a mistake.
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Okay, then I think they should just a warning not to do it again and leave it at that.
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So are any other staff members going to comment on this paragraph I wrote as a response to this?
So far, only FinePoint has. And he seems on board that it is time we take action more seriously. Though RandomHelper has commented on thread telling him to calm down, but we have been telling him things like that for the past year or so and never truly listens long term.
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Based on the seemingly consistent toxicity I've observed from occasionally checking the Death Battle discussion thread (showing his behavior hasn't really improved), along with the track record you've outlined, I do agree a lengthy or permanent ban is warranted for Sean.
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I was not aware this was the case. Yeah, the fact Sean simply refuses to change no matter what, I have to agree with reinstating the permaban.
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Reporting user @Azertyhuuh for constantly clogging up CRTs with irrelevant posts such as these despite being told by moderators, administrators and users on various occasions to drop this and even ignoring instructions from another moderator to keep the unrelated, off-topic posts in the general thread instead. I myself have requested this of this user multiple times but they simply refuse to listen. There are several instances of these happening if one looks for them, but this suffices for my report I believe. I would greatly appreciate some more staff stepping in with stricter instruction.
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@Azertyhuuh @Reiner04 @Qawsedf234
I don't really understand the topics being discussed, as I'm not a DB supporter nor involved, thus it's hard for me to say if it's derailing.
Input from any of you would probably be helpful.
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I agree with the report. While it may not be a severe rule violation, it is incredibly tiresome for supporters to constantly manage derails and address arguments that lack understanding of our tiering system. Not to mention his points are entirely independent of the OP’s argument too, creating unnecessary derail from mid way. While i don't like to offer punishmenrpts to new users, something needs to be done here imo, it is unreasonable to expect everyone to babysit a specific user across multiple threads, especially when it seems unlikely that he will improve.
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Assuming it is indeed derailing, it at least doesn't seem malicious, so my suggestions would be something like:
- Make the warning an official one and add it to the tracker if it's not already.
- Thread-ban them for some duration wherever they're derailing if necessary.
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First of all, I am discussing the topic normally and I haven’t gone off-topic at all, nor am I trying to distract from it. Or is it that you don’t want me to discuss the topic? I am discussing the matter of the gods, which is something the original poster mentioned in their post, and this is the proof ↓
I haven’t committed any mistake. Please focus and read the topic carefully before rushing to report people. I am discussing within the topic, and anyone has the right to discuss it.
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given this happend over 5 or 6 times, I think its getting a lil out of hand rn
