Rule Violation Reports (New forum)

[Antvasima]

Can a mod tell @Jinx666 and @Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera to just chill for a couple of days?

Pokemon Discussion Thread - Red & Blue arc

I wasnt even talking to you with that lmao Good job ignoring the prior post that actually asks you for proof over your assumptions

vsbattles.com

It's gotten to the point where the malice and the constant bickering between the two is starting to put me and a couple other users off, from engaging in the discussion.

(GRACE) Adding Pokemon Masters to the canon

To the ppl who just dont want to pick a side, Are we genuinely serious with making Masters EX content on mainline profiles as long as they arent 'contradicted'? So we're just going to have a mix of Mainline profiles that CAN include Masters EX (a minority since regions are interconnected)...

vsbattles.com

Also while I'm aware @Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera can be abrasive and difficult to deal with, the above CRT was still accepted and @Imaginym even explained why but @Jinx666 wouldn't accept it and went on to accuse Sean of altering profiles without an accepted CRT in the Pokémon discussion thread, stating it was only for the creation of alternate profiles using Pokémon Masters as secondary canon and shouldn't affect profiles that are based on primary canon.

Can this be explicitly clarified by a mod who participated in the initial CRT here or in the Pokémon discussion thread, what actually is fair game? (I apologise if you have to repeat yourselves again).

@Jinx666 @Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera

You both need to make a continuous serious effort to avoid any toxicity and significant hostility in our discussion threads.

 

[Jinx666]

I can only try but im afraid Sean's overall demeanor, motive and outlandish claims towards the Pokemon verse cant be ignored in the actual actions he takes towards on the wiki profiles. Even when i'm not talking to him, he will reply and he only ever seems to follow his rules, thinking he's the next saviour of the Pokemon verse and anyone that disagrees with him is 'lying'. From what i can tell (other than the obvious Digimon), he does this with other verses too, so this isnt just an exception for me.

Here, he actively made changes that went against the thread so I feel im right in calling that out since it's an active breach on what was decided. There were a few back and forth posts made about it, but Sean didn't want to claim responsibility for it.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

You both need to make a continuous serious effort to avoid any toxicity and significant hostility in our discussion threads.

Honestly, at this point, can we just force them to "silence" each other? We have had @Jinx666 and @Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera fight to a level worth reporting at least 3 times THIS YEAR...

I also remember this being a problem before this, but seemingly all of Pazedera's reports have been in conversation with Jinx... So even if it isn't the optimal outcome, it may be forced.

And No matter what happens, both parties seemingly blame the other...

 

[Jinx666]

Theres no way to actively make us not see eachothers posts that im aware of. At best theres ignoring, but one click of a button and you can see/reply to anyone you're ignoring.

It'll cause more issues if Sean is left to impose on the verse without blowback tbh. This is far and away Pazdera's first incident either (Iirc wasnt there talks about banning him temporarily that were just never saw through? Not that i personally care but it has always been Pazdera making wild claims and me reacting to it, while the rest of the bystanders just dont like the conversation)

Imo, the core issue of this is how outdated and unorganised the Pokemon Verse is as a whole. If there were set rules and guidelines (that were enforced) about how to apporach profiles and what media can be used, then theres at least an authoritive fallback. Sean seems to think he runs the verse how he wants otherwise.

 

[Catzlaflame]

The initial report said:

@Jinx666 …. accused Sean of altering profiles without an accepted CRT in the Pokémon discussion thread, stating it was only for the creation of alternate profiles using Pokémon Masters as secondary canon and shouldn't affect profiles that are based on primary canon.

Which is sorta true-ish, but I see why there’s a lot of confusion here:

What we’ve established so far is jinx doesn’t technically seem to be opposing the secondary canon itself, but rather opposing, Sean adding stuff w/o showing that the specific instance of Gloria/Calem actually meet that case-by-case standard.

However, Jinx is also technically saying that the secondary canon is not valid, because the results were “Vague” which I interpret at as a reference to this message by FinePoint after his initial approval:

I'll elaborate, since I feel like my opinion can't really be easily summarized as "agree or disagrees".

Proposals I think would be unreasonable: Declaring it entirely non-canon and not using it at all.

Proposals I think would be reasonable: Secondary canon, new keys, new profiles, some combination of the previous three.

Proposal which I personally prefer: New profiles.

Which DDM later agreed with.

New profiles specifically meant for masters is, essentially, saying it’s not cannon to the main story.

So essentially what Jinx is saying is: No secondary canon was technically not preferred by staff, but even if it was, it’s not even being applied as if it were secondary canon.

---

That being said, here is what needs to be done in my view:

1. First and foremost, I invite @DarkDragonMedus and @FinePoint to clarify their stance, on if they prefer secondary canon or if they prefer new profiles. (Notice how this is not an invitation for jinx or Sean to try to convince them either which way)
2. The relevant edits should all be undone/should not be re-applied for now.
3. Depending on what FP/DDM say the thread could potentially be re-opened for re-evaluation.

 

[Jinx666]

To clarify my own stance and opinions (not trying to convince anyone but its clearly relevant, its nothing i havent said prior in the thread)

• Im not opposed to labelling Masters EX as 'Secondary Canon' (huge umbrella term in my books). Theres a Pokemon Multiverse, and Masters EX has only been referred to as canon in terms of character writing in themself (which is largely irrelevant to the powerscaling aspect), so thats w/e. As long as we aren't giving characters serious scaling or features from it (especially ones that Sean overwrites the canon over, such as Sword/Shield), then we should stick to whats actually been confirmed canon about the game.
• You can have separate versions of a character exist in one 'Canon', but they would need separate profiles since they are different to one another. Pokemon does this all the time in many other examples. So me vouching for them to use separate profiles doesnt mean they still cant be considered 'secondary canon'.
• I definitely don't believe it has a place in Mainline scaling, or the way Sean has been pushing it. Neither does anyone else seemingly. The reasons are sorta obvious in themself with Masters EX being a crossover mobile gacha game that brings all sorts of characters from separate generations together and claims they all just...coexist on Pasio an undescript amount of time after their games. Its full of constant contradictions and follows its own interpretations of games with separate versions in itself.
• I support the idea to make separate profiles for Masters EX versions, as the modern vs wiki already does this solution for separate versions of characters in any updated verse. Pokemon however is admittedly very behind in progress, with the verse (although having lots of support) not getting the frequent maintenance or consistent profile making. I have no personal interest in Masters EX myself, but if anyone would want to include Masters EX (and the crazy scaling it implies), then they should do so in a separate profile
• The conclusion to the thread being to 'make new keys or make new profiles depending on a case-by-case analysis' is kind of just the worst decision imo. It doesn't steer us to one solution, it mixes mainline profile continuity even more, and it just creates more fluff to pages that the verse is lacking manpower to deal with for an ongoing game like Masters EX. It also creates more conversations regarding this topic and what characters would qualify for being 'canon to Masters EX' (which will inevitably lead to more Sean vs Jinx fights)

 

[Antvasima]

The initial report said:

Which is sorta true-ish, but I see why there’s a lot of confusion here:

What we’ve established so far is jinx doesn’t technically seem to be opposing the secondary canon itself, but rather opposing, Sean adding stuff w/o showing that the specific instance of Gloria/Calem actually meet that case-by-case standard.

However, Jinx is also technically saying that the secondary canon is not valid, because the results were “Vague” which I interpret at as a reference to this message by FinePoint after his initial approval:

Which DDM later agreed with.

New profiles specifically meant for masters is, essentially, saying it’s not cannon to the main story.

So essentially what Jinx is saying is: No secondary canon was technically not preferred by staff, but even if it was, it’s not even being applied as if it were secondary canon.

---

That being said, here is what needs to be done in my view:

1. First and foremost, I invite @DarkDragonMedus and @FinePoint to clarify their stance, on if they prefer secondary canon or if they prefer new profiles. (Notice how this is not an invitation for jinx or Sean to try to convince them either which way)
2. The relevant edits should all be undone/should not be re-applied for now.
3. Depending on what FP/DDM say the thread could potentially be re-opened for re-evaluation.

I think that this seems reasonable.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Secondary Canon has always had a case by case policy. If it exists to add flavor context to primary canon stuff that is uncontradicted to primary canon, they may be used to influence it. If they contradict primary canon, whether it is due to existence of retcons and/or was simply not a very good translation on what actually happened, we should typically avoid using it and stick to what primary canon says. Non-canon adaptations of canon works is completely different from secondary canon material, and thus would be treated as its own thing.

 

[Arceus0x]

Y'all why not just make it a separate key. Wouldn't be the first time we had a profile with two different but related canons, like, for example, movie Superman profiles.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Could we please not discuss how to handle Pokémon profiles on the RVRT? I ain't staff here but come on.

 

[Antvasima]

Could we please not discuss how to handle Pokémon profiles on the RVRT? I ain't staff here but come on.

Agreed.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

I go to sleep at 5 AM only to find out there's more stuff to read when I wake up at 1 pm

 

[FinePoint]

That being said, here is what needs to be done in my view:

1. First and foremost, I invite @DarkDragonMedus and @FinePoint to clarify their stance, on if they prefer secondary canon or if they prefer new profiles. (Notice how this is not an invitation for jinx or Sean to try to convince them either which way)
2. The relevant edits should all be undone/should not be re-applied for now.
3. Depending on what FP/DDM say the thread could potentially be re-opened for re-evaluation.

I'm fine with it being secondary canon to the overarching story of the Pokemon games in general.

There is canonically a multiverse, and even if the 'same character' diverges in two different games in terms of specific history that could explain it and general scaling could probably still be done where applicable.

If this reason is used for a justification for some other character, and isn't contradicted, then I think it's fine to use on a main profile.
Like if Character X is canonically beaten up by Character Y, but Character X only has a physical feat in one game but not the other we can reason that physical feat can probably be used to compare the two even if the timelines are technically different.

It's my understanding that this sort of thing has always been used to explain and accept minor differences in games released around the same time, like Red as opposed to Green, for example.

But if a character's history diverges a lot then it makes sense, organizationally, to make a new page for them and their specific feats. If they'd really prefer a key instead that's fine too.

 

[FinePoint]

We have had @Jinx666 and @Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera fight to a level worth reporting at least 3 times THIS YEAR...

Also, Dark_Soul does sort of have a point.

They've been warned multiple times by multiple different staff at this point. It's clearly not working.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Also, Dark_Soul does sort of have a point.

They've been warned multiple times by multiple different staff at this point. It's clearly not working.

They continued arguing after the latest RVR discussion too. I told them to cut it out, after a particularly aggressive comment from Sean (was right above mine), which has since been deleted, presumably by Sean. Imaginym told them the same soon afterwards. Neither of them responded to either of us.

This ongoing feud shows no sign of stopping, in my opinion.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

All of our arguments involve Jinx targeting me in some capacity.

• He alters my profiles and reverts my edits to remove any mention of Masters, including ones that don't affect them in VS. He's even done this after Masters was deemed canon.
• He argues with the mods to get them to delete profiles he doesn't like (My first incarnations of Calem and Gloria were deleted for this reason).
• He derails my CRTs to the point of taking months of extra time.
• I literally catch him lying to me and flip-flopping on his own points and he just ignores it and refuses to concede to any of my points.

I call him out on doing all of this or I get a bit frustrated and suddenly "Sean and Jinx are fighting again" and him gunning for me is never addressed and he gets to do it again.

 

[DragoZeroNova]

Also, Dark_Soul does sort of have a point.

They've been warned multiple times by multiple different staff at this point. It's clearly not working.

I don't disagree with this, but @Jinx666 has refused this option multiple times, including right under @Dark_Soul20189 comment. Not sure what @Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera thinks of this solution, but I think you'd have to at least either convince @Jinx666 that making them unable to see each others messages is for the best or just do it against their wishes (If it comes to that).

 

[FinePoint]

I don't disagree with this, but @Jinx666 has refused this option multiple times, including right under @Dark_Soul20189 comment. Not sure what @Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera thinks of this solution, but I think you'd have to at least either convince @Jinx666 that making them unable to see each others messages is for the best or just do it against their wishes (If it comes to that).

I was thinking more like we give both of them a more serious punishment since they've ignored staff instruction multiple times.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

I don't disagree with this, but @Jinx666 has refused this option multiple times, including right under @Dark_Soul20189 comment. Not sure what @Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera thinks of this solution, but I think you'd have to at least either convince @Jinx666 that making them unable to see each others messages is for the best or just do it against their wishes (If it comes to that).

I would be absolutely fine with that, because I never instigate anything with Jinx and he always comes to me to argue.

 

[Random-Helper323]

All of our arguments involving Jinx targeting me in some capacity.

• He alters my profiles and reverts my edits to remove any mention of Masters, including ones that don't affect them in VS. He's even done this after Masters was deemed canon.
• He argues with the mods to get them to delete profiles he doesn't like (My first incarnations of Calem and Gloria were deleted for this reason).
• He derails my CRTs to the point of taking months of extra time.
• I literally catch him lying to me and flip-flopping on his own points and he just ignores it and refuses to concede to any of my points.

I call him out on doing all of this or I get a bit frustrated and suddenly "Sean and Jinx are fighting again" and him gunning for me is never addressed and he gets to do it again.

Neither of you is making much, if any, effort to avoid drama. And when staff tell you both to calm down you don't even acknowledge them and even when a RVR discussion is going on about it you two still can't stop it.

I was thinking more like we give both of them a more serious punishment since they've ignored staff instruction multiple times.

This definitely seems to be a pattern. Both myself and Imaginym told them to stop just a few hours ago and neither of them even acknowledged either of us. Sean, to their credit, deleted that inflammatory comment, and Jinx, to their credit, wasn't the one making direct insults.

Spoiler: Another Recent Issue involving them

I also think they're dragging people around them into it. Just recently Arceus was in trouble for a bad joke aimed at them, and while Arceus shouldn't have made the joke, Jinx should have been able to express distaste for the joke with Arceus directly instead of coming here. Arceus did immediately cooperate after all. The fact Jinx felt the need to come here straight away, when that sort of action does not seem to be typical for Jinx, tells me that discussions involving Sean are so charged for Jinx that attempting diplomacy never crossed their mind.

In short, these two seem incapable of dealing with each other in any capacity without clashing, people around them can and are getting caught in the crossfire even if that isn't the intent of Sean or Jinx, and staff intervention is having practically zero effect.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Only Jinx has done this. I even defended Arceus0x and said I'm completely fine with those types of comments.

If we did get some kind of punishment though, I would be able to use that time to work on my next batch of Pokemon profiles.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Only Jinx has done this. I even defended Arceus0x and said I'm completely fine with those types of comments.

The report isn't the issue. The issue is that Jinx was that put off by it due to how charged the Pokemon discussions are. And no matter how many times we tell you two to behave more professionally, you ignore us and keep doing the same thing.

If even one, preferably both, of you behaves more professionally and reasonably we can figure this out.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

The report isn't the issue. The issue is that Jinx was that put off by it due to how charged the Pokemon discussions are. And no matter how many times we tell you two to behave more professionally, you ignore us and keep doing the same thing.

The problem is that in the absence of either of us, one of us will want to change the Pokemon verse. I want to upgrade it, and he wants to downgrade it. Of course I'm multiple magnitudes more polite, honest, and reliable about it, but our simple goals will cause us to keep bumping into each other.

 

[Random-Helper323]

The problem is that in the absence of either of us, one of us will want to change the Pokemon verse. I want to upgrade it, and he wants to downgrade it. Of course I'm multiple magnitudes more polite, honest, and reliable about it, but our simple goals will cause us to keep bumping into each other.

Those kinds of disagreements are common here. In many cases both individuals can still coexist. That clearly isn't an option here, however. At this point I'm leaning towards a strict final warning, with bans or thread bans coming if this behaviour doesn't cease.

All the same, I'll again request you stop this fighting.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

I don't argue against Jinx because I feel like it, I do it because of the damage he might cause to the Pokemon verse on this site if I don't, and he feels the same about me.

He was the reason that Masters was ruled to be noncanon and my CRT was needed in the first place.

 

[Vietthai96]

I don't argue against Jinx because I feel like it, I do it because of the damage he might cause to the Pokemon verse on this site if I don't, and he feels the same about me.

He was the reason that Masters was ruled to be noncanon and my CRT was needed in the first place.

That is exactly the reason why both of you should stop, you can't change his opinion or he can't change your. It is fine if you two doing this in a closed space that only have the two of you, but you guys are circling back-and-forth in an open space with a lot of other people, in what i must say, aggressive manner which bothers the surrounding, other members need space to discuss too.

@Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera @Jinx666

This is the final warning, anything more then i will opt for a thread ban suggestion as punishment, i dislike banning members because i feel like i'm using authority to shut people up, but there is always a limit to how forgiving we could do, many warnings was given out by multiple staff and thing have been dragging for months and what you two have been doing isn't helping the verse, no matter how much you guys back-and-forth, things still need to be evaluated to be put on profile, and no staff want to evaluate in a bad environment you guys are creating, which in turn nothing will be put on the profiles

About the CRT and profile edit, i say we currently leave the profiles untouch, no need to reopen the already concluded one, make a new CRT that continue the old one, supporters could make concise summarise of what was accepted, what left need to be evaluated, what we should do with the profile

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Untouched from where I had it, or untouched from after he re-removed the Masters stuff?

 

[Jinx666]

Yeah this is a lot, and i definitely argue to it, but if people actually look into Sean and his behaviour, the things that he says, and the fact that its his actions that are actively affecting wiki content, then its clear where the actual issues lie. Me arguing against him doing all that (and its always him who started off with the insults and bad faith) is a reaction and not the starter. He actively ended his latest batch of profiles saying "Lets light this candle, shall we", knowing this would cause an issue.

If i dont, then he's just going to keep uploading and changing up Pokemon info to his whim, with nobody doing anything about it. Me reverting those unapproved edits that went against the final conclusion was justified, and me bringing it up in thread 'leading to another argument' where i have to defend my actions of doing so, shouldn't be landing me in hot water.

You can tell me to stop all you want, but why am i the only one spotting Sean's edits and doing something about it? Am i supposed to just let him do what he wants with the verse? This all started because he was using unapproved scaling, and then it diverged into this where he thinks im some 'enemy of Pokemon'. He's being left to rule, and he holds a vendetta for 'getting his profiles deleted'.

I'd rather thread bans if anything, i've got a lot more outside of Pokemon i am doing. Just stop letting Sean actively ignore the standards and CRT results.

 

[Jinx666]

Spoiler: Another Recent Issue involving them

I also think they're dragging people around them into it. Just recently Arceus was in trouble for a bad joke aimed at them, and while Arceus shouldn't have made the joke, Jinx should have been able to express distaste for the joke with Arceus directly instead of coming here.

Spoiler: Another Recent Issue involving them

I did do this? I dropped a message directly in that same thread asking him not to say things like that, before i reported it.

Arceus did immediately cooperate after all. The fact Jinx felt the need to come here straight away, when that sort of action does not seem to be typical for Jinx, tells me that discussions involving Sean are so charged for Jinx that attempting diplomacy never crossed their mind.

Arcues was just as unapologetic as he was here. If you look at his response, he dropped it, but it was a backhanded with smthn like "okay fine i wont banter with some people! Cause i know they cant take it!" or w/e

What he actually said:
"Yes I made a joke about them because they've been bickering non-stop like a couple halfway through divorce proceedings. The point was to make the entire argument feel awkward so they'd stop but ig you can't stop people from ruining things for people same way you can't stop a wave from crashing on a beach.

The only thing I'll apologize for is for you and Ant having to bother yourself with this."
-Admitted he was purposefully trying to make me feel awkward, and only apologizes to the 'mods'. This isnt an immediate cooperation at all.

This part is false, it was an uncomfortable joke and i asked someone just to tell him (since unless you're a mod, you're likely not listened to about 'sensitive stuff')
The Sean stuff is fairgame (even though someone needs to stop him), but im not gonna be blamed for bad behaviour over reporting an uncomfortable joke to someone who was clearly not apologetic in themself. Its w/e and idc about it anymore but this response is clearly skewed if its an attempt to try and say i 'drag people into arguments'.
Arceus replied with this of his own accord unprompted.

 

[KLOL506]

@Agnaa @Mr. Bambu

 

[Random-Helper323]

Yeah this is a lot, and i definitely argue to it, but if people actually look into Sean and his behaviour, the things that he says, and the fact that its his actions that are actively affecting wiki content, then its clear where the actual issues lie. Me arguing against him doing all that (and its always him who started off with the insults and bad faith)

If i dont, then he's just going to keep uploading and changing up Pokemon info to his whim, with nobody doing anything about it. Me reverting those unapproved edits that went against the final conclusion was justified.

You can tell me to stop all you want, but why am i the only one spotting Sean's edits and doing something about it? Am i supposed to just let him do what he wants? This all started because he was using unapproved scaling, and then it diverged into this where he thinks im some 'enemy of Pokemon'. He's being left to rule.

I'd rather thread bans if anything, i've got a lot more outside of Pokemon i am doing. Just stop letting Sean actively ignore the standards and CRT results.

Okay, so this accusation is coming out of nowhere for me. If Sean is making unapproved edits, why aren't you reporting the edits in the Wiki Vandalism thread? If this was happening as you say, there should be a record on that thread of this happening.

Arcues was just as unapologetic as he was here. If you look at his response, he dropped it, but it was a backhanded with smthn like "okay fine i wont banter with some people! Cause i know they cant take it!" or w/e

What he actually said:
"Yes I made a joke about them because they've been bickering non-stop like a couple halfway through divorce proceedings. The point was to make the entire argument feel awkward so they'd stop but ig you can't stop people from ruining things for people same way you can't stop a wave from crashing on a beach.

The only thing I'll apologize for is for you and Ant having to bother yourself with this."
-Admitted he was purposefully trying to make me feel awkward, and only apologizes to the 'mods'. This isnt an immediate cooperation at all.

This part is false, it was an uncomfortable joke and i asked someone just to tell him (since unless you're a mod, you're likely not listened to)

I agree the joke was inappropriate. Remember I told Arceus so. I'm just saying the discussion thread is touchy for everyone, and that was all clearly an extension of the clashes in the thread.

The Sean stuff is fairgame, but im not gonna be blamed for bad behaviour over reporting an uncomfortable joke to someone who was clearly not apologetic in themself. Its w/e and idc about it anymore but this response is clearly skewed if its an attempt to try and say i 'drag people into arguments'.

I'm not calling it bad behaviour. I'm saying it was a drastic response and a sign of how heated the discussion is.

 

[Jinx666]

Okay, so this accusation is coming out of nowhere for me. If Sean is making unapproved edits, why aren't you reporting the edits in the Wiki Vandalism thread? If this was happening as you say, there should be a record on that thread of this happening.

...This is literally how the latest argument started? Ive said it multiple times? Its not an accusation and i have linked to it

Once that Masters EX thread concluded, Sean without hesitation, applied edits to include Masters EX content that weren't previously discussed (and knew it was wrong). I reverted it, and noted it on the discussion thread.

Because if i reported it to 'Wiki Vandalism', id only get blamed further for trying to cause problems and opting to 'get rid of him'. I also heavily disagree with this wiki's very open term to 'vandalism' after a prior incident, so it doesnt sit right with me to call it that. As much as Sean is going against policy, hes not 'vandalising' pages.

Idk if you're aware of this too, but this whole grudge started because I reported somethign to Profile Deletion Threads (asked them to move it to a blog), they agreed, and ever since its whats escalated this and i cant get into pokemon discussion without being called a 'liar' or an 'enemy of Pokemon'. Apparently im 'manipulating you all'. So I have reason as to why going directly to some vandalism thread wasn't my first option.

I agree the joke was inappropriate. Remember I told Arceus so. I'm just saying the discussion thread is touchy for everyone, and that was all clearly an extension of the clashes in the thread.

Yeah you did, but now you're trying to claim that I didn't approach him about it prior (I did), and that by reporting it to this thread, I was 'dragging more people into it' (When this had nothing to do with Sean as something Arceus said). I'm not responsible for how anyone else wants to word/respond to things, I actively asked a mod to tell them (and you did, so thank you for that.)

So I dont see what the problem is, and why you're trying to use it as some example of me starting something when in the midst of discussing thread bans. I was genuinely uncomfortable with it.

I'm not calling it bad behaviour. I'm saying it was a drastic response and a sign of how heated the discussion is.

It was irregardless of Sean, and all about Arceus. The only thing about Sean is that I heavily dislike being associated to him in any joking regard given his offsite notoriety.

All I asked was that a mod tell him directly (as clearly, Arceus doesnt respect me enough to listen). Its up to you guys at the ned of the day how you handle it, but I wasn't going for 'drastic'. Im not even really sure what the limits to a report are. It wasn't my intention to cause another argument abt it, and im not gonna have that skewed.

 

[Random-Helper323]

...This is literally how the latest argument started? Ive said it multiple times?

Once that Masters EX thread concluded, Sean without hesitation, applied edits to include Masters EX content that weren't previously discussed (and knew it was wrong). I reverted it, and noted it on the discussion thread.

You made it sound like Sean had a history of making unapproved changes. Not just this one, more before it. If you report those in the Vandalism thread it's a record.

Because if i reported it to 'Wiki Vandalism', id only get blamed further for trying to cause problems and opting to 'get rid of him'. I also heavily disagree with this wiki's very open term to 'vandalism' after a prior incident, so it doesnt sit right with me to call it that. As much as Sean is going against policy, hes not 'vandalising' pages.

Many mistakes are reported there. I respect not wanting to report people, but this puts us in a position where both of you accuse the other of instigating and the lack of reports means records are harder to look into.

Idk if you're aware of this too, but this whole grudge started because I reported somethign to Profile Deletion Threads (asked them to move it to a blog), they agreed, and ever since its whats escalated this and i cant get into pokemon discussion without being called a 'liar' or an 'enemy of Pokemon'. Apparently im 'manipulating you all'. So I have reason as to why going directly to some vandalism thread wasn't my first option.

If that's happening, Sean shouldn't do that.

and that by reporting it to this thread, I was 'dragging more people into it' (When this had nothing to do with Sean as something Arceus said)

. I'm not responsible for how anyone else wants to word/respond to things, I actively asked a mod to tell them (and you did, so thank you for that.)

I agree that such comments can be touchy. And if you didn't want Arceus banned that's good.

So I dont see what the problem is, and why you're trying to use it as some example of me starting something when in the midst of discussing thread bans. I was genuinely uncomfortable with it.

Not you. The feud. The whole thing clearly stirs stuff up. Even Arceus was reacting to the feud.

Look, from where we stand it looks like both of you fight, each of you blames the other, neither backs down, and neither pays attention when told to calm down. If even one of you could stop this, then we'd at least have a solid answer as to who's instigating. As it is, all we can do is treat both of you as fighting. I don't want either of you banned, I want you both to conduct yourselves in a more professional manner.

 

[Jinx666]

You made it sound like Sean had a history of making unapproved changes. Not just this one, more before it. If you report those in the Vandalism thread it's a record.

I wouldnt know, the Pokemon verse in itself is wildly inconsistent and unmanaged to standards on the wiki. This all started about Masters EX, im not gonna start keeping tabs on him otherwise, ask the other people hes squabbled with.
His profiles aren't up to the best standard either, but thats not exactly a rule report. He wouldnt take criticism on board regardless

Many mistakes are reported there. I respect not wanting to report people, but this puts us in a position where both of you accuse the other of instigating and the lack of reports means records are harder to look into.

Its never been my intention to get people banned regardless. The only issue i have is with people just letting Sean say whatever on profiles (when hes been at this stuff ever since the Tai vs Red Death Battle) and then when i argue, it creates a space where people cant discuss (even though that wasn't happening in the first place lbr)

If that's happening, Sean shouldn't do that.

Well he's been doing that, and its his temperament and comments that have led to this. Even in his literal above post, he's making things up to his own negative interpretation. I don't react in the best way (I have no obligation to tolerate him) but given everything i've learned about him and the multitude of issues hes already caused prior, he is just borderline delusional and its grating that people are letting him get away with it. I'm fine with the CRTs outcome atp, but if we're having a discussion about every character and their masters ex involvement, that WILL cause more discussions i don't want to be exempt from if Sean isnt.
People don't even agree with him, but when he takes actual action to change things, nothing gets said.

Not you. The feud. The whole thing clearly stirs stuff up. Even Arceus was reacting to the feud.

Well thats on him personally, i cant be held accountable for what he chooses to say. As much as its not exciting to see two people going at it (and ive tried my best to keep it within the realms of the CRT. After that closed, the only place i could mention the actual 'vandalism' was the discussion thread), its a site primarily for powerscaling, and whether or not including Masters EX is an important topic (Due to its crossover nature, it upscales the average of Pokemon massively, which is beneficial to some parties).
Given this verse wants to 'make everything canon' though, i suppose i can see why its not a closed case abt Masters Ex.

Look, from where we stand it looks like both of you fight, each of you blames the other, neither backs down, and neither pays attention when told to calm down. If even one of you could stop this, then we'd at least have a solid answer as to who's instigating.

I mean if it helps, ive ignored him multiple times when he's tried to start on me with baseless nonsense. I know we've both had history on this wiki, but mine has always been kept in the realms of the actual debate (I just go on for ages), and i promise you im nowhere near as widescale notorious as Sean Pazdera.

If theres an actual topic at hand, like Masters EX, then i can't say I dont want to discuss it since Sean WILL be left to it if no one speaks up. I'd again, love to ignore him too if i could (I've prior requested to ignore TheReaperMan ,who was another guy constantly trying to start picking fights, stir the pot (even to this day) and following me into threads. The difference between him and Pazdera tho is that hes not actively influencing any verses in common.) but his activity on the verse as a whole is too strong that i would like to know what hes saying next. He's outright trying to claim that the latest mainline game isnt canon in favour of Masters EX.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

It's literally him. Every time an argument starts, a normal conversation is happening and then he starts attacking me or my profiles for something.

Pokemon Discussion Thread - Red & Blue arc

I wasnt even talking to you with that lmao Good job ignoring the prior post that actually asks you for proof over your assumptions

vsbattles.com

Pokemon Discussion Thread - Red & Blue arc

Most of them really don't meet the minimum standards, like Charizard is one of the better profiles among normal Pokemon and there's a lotta stuff it's missing to meet our standards. No scans or proper justifications for scaling beyond "well charmander gives off the vibes of being comparable to...

vsbattles.com

(GRACE) Adding Pokemon Masters to the canon

"How very very sweet it will seem, once more, just to dream." Hello, everyone. This will be a simple CRT and edit. Today I will be proving that Pokemon Masters has a lot of evidence towards it being canon; more than enough for it to be considered canon on this site and changed to one of the...

vsbattles.com

He's also sometimes done the opposite and just shut himself down the moment I prove something or get frustrated just to avoid addressing points I've made.

(GRACE) Adding Pokemon Masters to the canon

if you two don't have new content to contribute to a debate & your debate is primarily, if not specifically one another whom you know is likely to disagree with you, then try to avoid doing so

vsbattles.com

It feels like I'm being outright sabotaged and he's being let off the hook because people are saying it was a mutual fight because I get frustrated at everything he's doing to attack me.

 

[KLOL506]

Guys why are we discussing this and cluttering the RVT?

 

[Vietthai96]

Actually just noncanon, not in favor of anything. Z-A contradicts a lot of things and Masters is one of them. That's what I meant.

I have deleted this due to not related to the report, anyway leave the verse stuff to the verse discussion or CRT please

Anyway it seem that both of you wont budge, so i suggest thread ban for both, and make both of them unable to see each other comment. I will leave the decision about the ban duration for other staff in case this suggestion is approved

@Jinx666 @Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera

Let be clear that the issue here is the hostility between you two, i said it already in my previous post. If Sean have any profile edits which to you is vandalism then Jinx, you could report him, but it isn't an excuse to make you "innocent" in this case, clearly you also use a very bad tone on Sean each time you both have interaction with each other, and he also responded to you in kind, and the interaction between you two also affect other member greatly, so both of you are at fault here, so please don't say you can't be held accountable here Jinx

 

[Jinx666]

It's literally him. Every time an argument starts, a normal conversation is happening and then he starts attacking me or my profiles for something...

All of these things he's linked actually proves my points helpfully

Its a mix of me responding normally (I have every right to comment my own thoughts as much as Sean doesn't want my input, its in regards to the collaboartive verse), me responding to some of his outlandish claims, and even me choosing to not keep responding to him to avoid another argument while he actively responds to posts i wasn't directing at him.

 

[Jinx666]

Let be clear that the issue here is the hostility between you two, i said it already in my previous post. If Sean have any profile edits which to you is vandalism then Jinx, you could report him, but it isn't an excuse to make you "innocent" in this case, clearly you also use a very bad tone on Sean each time you both have interaction with each other, and he also responded to you in kind, and the interaction between you two also affect other member greatly, so both of you are at fault here, so please don't say you can't be held accountable here Jinx

There is a hostility, and I believe its justified on my end based on some of the things i've learnt from Pazdera, though that has no bearing in my motivation against his scaling, which is just borderline ludicrous.

I've reacted to his comments and accusations mainly, and I not longer think I should be sugarcoating it since trying to be civil with him has gotten nowhere. It wouldn't matter what I say or how i respond to him, he would be hostile regardlless due to him thinking i 'deleted his profiles' (a mod decision). When i start the conversations, its about actively calling out wrong/assumed information in profiles, which should be fair game since its an actual public presentation on the wiki.

I've already said its fine when it comes to responses to Sean, but what I cant be held accountable for, which is the only thing i was saying i cant be, is how parties such as Arceus choose to speak and respond on the matter. I don't control peoples actions or thoughts, so i don't want that being part of the record. There wasn't any discussion prior to begin with, which is likely why Sean had been left to his own devices: No one else wanted to confront him about it.

I dont mind a thread ban, though with the outcome of this Masters EX CRT, i still expect any inclusion of Masters EX content on Pokemon profiles to be actively discussed fairly. Guaranteed I can find contradictions that prove the Masters EX version is not the same as the mainline.

 

[Random-Helper323]

All of these things he's linked actually proves my points helpfully

Its a mix of me responding normally (I have every right to comment my own thoughts as much as Sean doesn't want my input, its in regards to the collaboartive verse), me responding to some of his outlandish claims, and even me choosing to not keep responding to him to avoid another argument while he actively responds to posts i wasn't directing at him.

Those comments don't seem bad, that's true.

Maybe this subject needs to be looked into in more depth by staff. Honestly, it seems unavoidable that the two of you are best kept separate.