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Rule Violation Reports (New forum)
- Thread starter Antvasima
- Start date
- 7,780
- 11,569
Reporting @Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera for regular toxicity.
They were involved in a previous incident resulting in a warning here.
I warned them for personal attacks and gatekeeping here.
Now they're doing largely the same thing again in this thread.
This would mark the third time staff has had to explicitly step in to tell them to be civil, so I think a short ban is probably warranted now.
Technically two of those incidents also name @Jinx666, who also has a previous (but unrelated) warning here.
In my personal opinion, the case with Jinx is less severe, in that they've seemingly been mostly responding to being antagonized by SASP.
Their conduct also lacks the gatekeeping attitude present in SASP's posts which I find particularly distasteful in a community where we should be encouraging each other and working collaboratively, as well as generally welcoming to general audiences and open to criticism.
In conclusion, I'd advocate for a short ban for Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera (One Month), and an official warning for Jinx666.
They were involved in a previous incident resulting in a warning here.
I warned them for personal attacks and gatekeeping here.
Now they're doing largely the same thing again in this thread.
This would mark the third time staff has had to explicitly step in to tell them to be civil, so I think a short ban is probably warranted now.
Technically two of those incidents also name @Jinx666, who also has a previous (but unrelated) warning here.
In my personal opinion, the case with Jinx is less severe, in that they've seemingly been mostly responding to being antagonized by SASP.
Their conduct also lacks the gatekeeping attitude present in SASP's posts which I find particularly distasteful in a community where we should be encouraging each other and working collaboratively, as well as generally welcoming to general audiences and open to criticism.
In conclusion, I'd advocate for a short ban for Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera (One Month), and an official warning for Jinx666.
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Im happy to receive a warning, threads like this are just frustrating when Pokemon on this verse is already just not being managed well (and thats fine, this wiki is a hobby and the Pokemon series is huge). The addition of obviously non-canon and contradictory material, which is usually always the case for crossover gacha game content unless it specifically ties into mainline, i feel would only worsen it.
Its just hard to make any real progress.
I've also left this in the said thread
"I apologise for my own pettyness, Pazdera does admittedly get me heated, not only for our widely stark difference in how Pokemon should be scaled but the obnoxious nature of it, especially when it has all been based around a very obvious personal bias to make Pokemon as strong as they possibly can just for 'making an army' and spiting a decade old Death Battle result. Im not above anyone so im not gonna act as if he shouldnt be allowed to make whatever pages he wants, but i think his contributions have had a massive effect on the state of the verse right now thats not all positive."
Its just hard to make any real progress.
I've also left this in the said thread
"I apologise for my own pettyness, Pazdera does admittedly get me heated, not only for our widely stark difference in how Pokemon should be scaled but the obnoxious nature of it, especially when it has all been based around a very obvious personal bias to make Pokemon as strong as they possibly can just for 'making an army' and spiting a decade old Death Battle result. Im not above anyone so im not gonna act as if he shouldnt be allowed to make whatever pages he wants, but i think his contributions have had a massive effect on the state of the verse right now thats not all positive."
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Thank you for being reasonable, and I understand.
When threads turn into an endless back-and-forth like that, it discourages people from reading it at all, and in that sense only drowns out your own objections.
My general suggestion for things which are controversial would be to make a single post detailing your objections, and only responding to arguments against yours which are genuinely new (and polite). I understand the urge to respond to every single criticism, but keep in mind that we do our best to evaluate both sides critically, not just whoever spoke last. When both sides have a hundred messages it can become impractical regardless.
You are not obligated to debate someone who is being rude (or really anyone in general). It is a valid reason to not engage and instead wait for someone else to argue their side, and you can tell them that and leave it at that if it happens.
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Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
He/Him- 5,382
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Regular toxicity? What, exactly, am I doing other than letting Jinx666 get a rise out of me? He is being magnitudes more rude than I am, especially considering the fact he's treated me extremely condescendingly over multiple threads and has attempted to stonewall my CRTs. I have handled his comments largely well other than some very basic sarcasm, which literally anyone would do if this was like their 20th time Jinx has made fun of them and has repeatedly watched him outright lie on the CRTs you are trying to pass.
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- Thread starter
- #30,607
Can somebody summarise what Sean and Jinx respectively did that broke or borderline broke our rules exactly please.
Also, Jinx, we have a personal user setting where you can select She/Her as your pronouns in order to avoid misunderstandings.
Also, Jinx, we have a personal user setting where you can select She/Her as your pronouns in order to avoid misunderstandings.
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
He/Him- 5,382
- 1,149
Pretty much everything, honestly. My goals for Pokemon, my character, Masters's canonicity, Masters's consistency, what happens in the game, who to blame for the verse being the way it is now (which isn't even bad), what Secondary Canon means, and of course how Masters would be treated on this site if allowed to become canon.
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Most of these are based on my own personal views, not me trying to lie about things. I just genuinely don't agree with you. And you've been on record for saying your own views and philosophy when it comes to Pokemon on the wiki, which ive done nothing but go off of.
Im not gonna continue arguing about it here but im not doing this out of personal spite. All I want is to try and find a way to make Pokemon as a verse more cohesive and organised than it is right now.
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- Thread starter
- #30,610
I would personally much prefer if the two of you just try to get along, collaborate with, and be friendly towards each other, so we do not need to handle things via our rule-violation reports thread.
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Stop clogging the thread, and arguing in the RVR, give staff some time to read and come to a conclusion.
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Yea, I had something to take care of irl, apologies for the delay.
Reviewing the thread, there’s a ton of passive-aggressive banter, but as is standard practice, we consider it crossing a line when attacks are directed towards the person not the argument.
In this context I would peg that right around where SuperPazdera says:
My views here are as follows:
1. Padzera. Yes you’ve done a lot of work on pokemon, yes you are knowledgeable on the series, but this constant superiority complex-esque persona, calling yourself the “hero of Pokémon,” bringing up how you make all these pages, bringing up how it’s better when you do everything yourself, etc is, I feel, one of the reasons this shit keeps coming up.
2. Jinx you weren’t really ignored. Yes, your later comments weren’t addressed but there comes a point where discussion clearly won’t sway the opposition, so people don’t bother. It happens. If we waited until every person got every word out, and came to a conclusion we wouldn’t have a wiki. The simple fact of the matter is that 2 staff agreed with the padzera’s OP, and that’s what he needs.
3. I think a month is a lot. At most, I’d go like a week for Pazdera, but even that I’m hesitant on tbh, but definitely at least another warning. A warning for jinx should be okay.
Reviewing the thread, there’s a ton of passive-aggressive banter, but as is standard practice, we consider it crossing a line when attacks are directed towards the person not the argument.
In this context I would peg that right around where SuperPazdera says:
Followed later by another comment,
I think jinx’s response was rather escalatory:
My views here are as follows:
1. Padzera. Yes you’ve done a lot of work on pokemon, yes you are knowledgeable on the series, but this constant superiority complex-esque persona, calling yourself the “hero of Pokémon,” bringing up how you make all these pages, bringing up how it’s better when you do everything yourself, etc is, I feel, one of the reasons this shit keeps coming up.
2. Jinx you weren’t really ignored. Yes, your later comments weren’t addressed but there comes a point where discussion clearly won’t sway the opposition, so people don’t bother. It happens. If we waited until every person got every word out, and came to a conclusion we wouldn’t have a wiki. The simple fact of the matter is that 2 staff agreed with the padzera’s OP, and that’s what he needs.
3. I think a month is a lot. At most, I’d go like a week for Pazdera, but even that I’m hesitant on tbh, but definitely at least another warning. A warning for jinx should be okay.
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Regarding the User (Super Ascended Sean Pazdera)
vsbattles.com
He was reported for his previous bad behavior before and even received a one year ban by Mr. Bambu once in the past and a previous ban extention from DarkDragon in 2021.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Log/block?page=User:Super+Ascended+Sean+Pazdera
There is also a recent report regarding Sean’s behavior here earlier this year in March
https://vsbattles.com/threads/rule-violation-reports-new-forum.107529/post-7016840
If anyone wants to add more context regarding Sean’s previous misconducts outside of the ones I can find, that will also been much appreciated.
Edit: Upon looking into this further as well.
Found a old report as well.
https://vsbattles.com/threads/rule-violation-reports-new-forum.107529/post-4312505
Rule Violation Reports (New forum)
We will see what he does next. Wokistan has already messaged him, if they do it again we will ban them.
He was reported for his previous bad behavior before and even received a one year ban by Mr. Bambu once in the past and a previous ban extention from DarkDragon in 2021.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Special:Log/block?page=User:Super+Ascended+Sean+Pazdera
There is also a recent report regarding Sean’s behavior here earlier this year in March
https://vsbattles.com/threads/rule-violation-reports-new-forum.107529/post-7016840
If anyone wants to add more context regarding Sean’s previous misconducts outside of the ones I can find, that will also been much appreciated.
Edit: Upon looking into this further as well.
Found a old report as well.
https://vsbattles.com/threads/rule-violation-reports-new-forum.107529/post-4312505
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- 177,271
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- Thread starter
- #30,616
I also do not think that either of them seem to have done anything remotely ban-worthy based on Catzlaflame's summary, but regular warnings to calm down and try to be polite are probably fine.
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I'm not super adamant on it, but I do think our warnings lose a lot of weight if we don't accordingly escalate our punishments on subsequent offenses.I also do not think that either of them seem to have done anything remotely ban-worthy based on Catzlaflame's summary, but regular warnings to calm down and try to be polite are probably fine.
They were warned twice before already, and not that long ago.
I'd support lowering it to just a week or something minor like that, though.
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Mr. Bambu
Suffer-Not-Injustice Bambu
VS Battles
Joke Battles
Bureaucrat
Administrator
Calculation Group
- 25,025
- 29,520
We did give him a final warning that if this behavior continued, we'd enact some punishment. If we want that to symbolically be a week, I think that's acceptable, but I think it should be at least some form of short ban. And if the behavior continues after that, the ban durations increase.
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I double checked and Super was also warned for three times this year it seems. Granted, it was a warning with the other users so I wasn’t sure if that actually counts to the warning tracker and all.
https://vsbattles.com/threads/pokemon-discussion-thread-red-blue-arc.107702/post-7025048
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
He/Him- 5,382
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Thank you, Catz. All I’ve wanted was for someone to let me know my work was worth it.
The doing everything myself thing was a bit misinterpreted; I didn’t mean it’s better for the site if I do everything, I just get my projects done more efficiently if I work alone.
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
He/Him- 5,382
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I just realized something- if I get temp banned, who will implement my CRT once the Grace Period is up?
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I could offer to do it. Where's it at?
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I mean apparently from what FinePoint is saying, Pokemon CRTS now need 3 staff inputs, and right now theres more discussion being held where i am directly addressing everything in larger compressed posts, so grace should be held for a bit.
Atp im not gonna push this further on whether we treat Masters EX as secondary canon if it does inevitably get agreed upon, but i do want to stress the fact that with that in mind, there needs to be more scrutiny and analysis from more than one person on what info from Masters we implement.
Masters EX is a HUGE game on its own and the content from it is massive with an entirely separate battle-mechanic and style to mainline Pokemon, and the events pretty much get to fanfic level crossover events that are still ongoing (so easily prone to suddenly becoming non-canon the second a contradictory plot point crops up). Theres just a lot of work thats going to need to be put in, and to ensure we aren't putting it above mainline canon like previous pages were, it would need discussion. I still obv think there should be separate profiles for these iterations of the characters that can just be linked with the mainline using a disambiguation template, but its whatever gets decided
Atp im not gonna push this further on whether we treat Masters EX as secondary canon if it does inevitably get agreed upon, but i do want to stress the fact that with that in mind, there needs to be more scrutiny and analysis from more than one person on what info from Masters we implement.
Masters EX is a HUGE game on its own and the content from it is massive with an entirely separate battle-mechanic and style to mainline Pokemon, and the events pretty much get to fanfic level crossover events that are still ongoing (so easily prone to suddenly becoming non-canon the second a contradictory plot point crops up). Theres just a lot of work thats going to need to be put in, and to ensure we aren't putting it above mainline canon like previous pages were, it would need discussion. I still obv think there should be separate profiles for these iterations of the characters that can just be linked with the mainline using a disambiguation template, but its whatever gets decided
Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera
He/Him- 5,382
- 1,149
Needing 3 staff inputs is only for bigger verses like Marvel and DC.
Mr. Bambu
Suffer-Not-Injustice Bambu
VS Battles
Joke Battles
Bureaucrat
Administrator
Calculation Group
- 25,025
- 29,520
This isn't the place to discuss it but we're discussing a concrete list of the two dozen or so verses that will receive that 3-staff requirement, Pokemon is tenuous but it is on the list currently.
Catz said he'd be fine with a week at most, @Antvasima would you? It's a petty offense but it is also an unending stream of petty offenses.
Catz said he'd be fine with a week at most, @Antvasima would you? It's a petty offense but it is also an unending stream of petty offenses.
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- Thread starter
- #30,626
I am fine with a 1 or 2 weeks long warning ban for Sean based on what you and FinePoint said earlier.
Would it be fine if he can apply his accepted revision after he comes back?
Would it be fine if he can apply his accepted revision after he comes back?
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Can I recommend with this, we additionally make the 2 users "silence" each other? Since it has repeatedly shown that they can't interact with each other, without it escalating to a point of it being a repeated issue in this thread?
Since the issue seems to mainly stem from them interacting with each other.
Since the issue seems to mainly stem from them interacting with each other.
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I dont think this is an option. I can try my best at not escalating? But frankly this has also stemmed from the fact that Pazdera seems to do whatever he wants with this verse and being massively conceited about the fact. The verse needs a lot more people helping it imo rather than havign him work within an echo chamber, especially when the information he adds can be wildly inaccurate, and he wants to constantly add pages for the sake of making 'armors' and an 'army'.
Pokemon is a big verse, its popular overall, and has a lot of support apparently, but right now the state of the pages and information just is not consistent with one another, and it feels like its being dug into a deeper hole rather than a quality control. Thats what I want for this verse, so I would like to state my points (for however much they'll be heard) when i feel things are just getting bloated for the sake of it.
Idm what is decided with this ban, I would want people to reiterate if Pokemon would require 3 staff inputs now (from my understanding, it should qualify on paper, but it is also massively underlooked on this wiki for what its worth) for the CRT, and i am also in the midst of discussing the opposing side through this grace period properly and without distraction. I still think its a massive mistake to implement the CRT when theres no plan, no measures being taken to decide what secondary canon material we use if its implemented (its all extremely contradictory), and a LOT of pages in the process to update with whats essentially a whole new power system.
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Fully understandable, just wanted to bring it up as an option, since this seems to be the root of a repeated issue, ultimately it should be up to the users themself.That is up to them to decide. They would also likely become unable to counter each others' points after all.
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1 Week is fine by me.
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?? Wrong thread?
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Since they seemingly disproved the primary evidence against them (that no MTL actually uses "to") I would support that.No problem. Mistakes happen.
Anyway, Astral_Trinity439 wants to make an appeal to have his 6 months block reduced to 3 months instead:
Antvasima
community.fandom.com
One could argue they were still cherry-picking, but at that point we're just speculating intention. I prefer to assume good faith by default.
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@WanderingGecko has not listed any of the 4 people disagreeing with their thread despite it being pointed out to them. I even listed the people who are disagreeing and why and Gecko has not put them into the disagree category, despite being active on the thread. As far as I am aware, you are not allowed to simply not count votes.
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This is an announcement that Apotheosis69 has been demoted, banned for three months, and thread-banned from the translation requests thread, for passing off MTL as his own.
Please stop doing this people. We've caught four people doing it already. If you have, come forward and your punishment will be lesser than if we have to catch you ourselves.
Please stop doing this people. We've caught four people doing it already. If you have, come forward and your punishment will be lesser than if we have to catch you ourselves.
