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Rouge the Bat(Game) vs Android 18

Uh, you can't do Adventure Rouge but give her Modern abilities, if you want to do that you would have to turn this into a Fun & Games thread, which does not affect profiles.
 
Adventure Rouge is not supposed to be High 4-C... That's outdated, she's supposed to be 4-B, so I don't know the value for her "High 4-C" because that's not mentioned anywhere.
 
Going off the stats from the verse pages, speed needs to be equalized for there to be any chance of a match here.

If unequal, 18 speedblitzes and kills with the soulhax Db's ki manip has here.
If equalized, Rouge can actually do stuff and has the option of one-shotting due to the AP difference, while 18 still has the aforementioned soul stuff.
 
Honestly, the soul manip for DB characters is starting to get a little overblown. A little toxic for debates. What is the speed calcs for early Adventure Rouge and Cell Saga Android 18.
 
I'm very skeptical of the supposed soul hax every single Ki attack apparently has now. If that were true, no normal mortal soul would've survived Super Buu's human extinction attack, therefore there would have been no one to wish back...
 
Issen_Mk_III said:
I'm very skeptical of the supposed soul hax every single Ki attack apparently has now. If that were true, no normal mortal soul would've survived Super Buu's human extinction attack, therefore there would have been no one to wish back...
Click to expand...
I think ki attacks COULD affect the soul, but I don't think it's just "i blast you and you die if you don't have resistance". Considering ki IS also based off of physicality as well, I just consider it a "it just does damage on both fronts" and doesn't just outhax, really. Somewhat like doing spiritual damage in Tensura. Just another health pool.
 
Doesn't the soul hax just enable them to attack spiritual beings as if they were physical? I'm pretty sure the ki page doesn't depict it as dura-neg hax that one-shots people without resistance or as being able to target the soul specifically (Unless it's via Hakai, in which case it does)
 
I DO think Hakaishin Ki or something equal or higher can destroy souls, we have plenty of proof for that. But any Ki? I don't know about that, Chief. If Super Buu can't do it, pre-super 18 sure as hell can't.
 
LaserPrecision said:
Doesn't the soul hax just enable them to attack spiritual beings as if they were physical? I'm pretty sure the ki page doesn't depict it as dura-neg hax that one-shots people without resistance or as being able to target the soul specifically (Unless it's via Hakai, in which case it does)
Click to expand...
Wouldn't that just make them be able to do NPI?
 
LaserPrecision said:
Doesn't the soul hax just enable them to attack spiritual beings as if they were physical? I'm pretty sure the ki page doesn't depict it as dura-neg hax that one-shots people without resistance or as being able to target the soul specifically (Unless it's via Hakai, in which case it does)
Click to expand...
That's Non-Physical Interaction, not Soul Manipulation.
 
McFriesGuy075 said:
That's Non-Physical Interaction, not Soul Manipulation.
Click to expand...
Well I don't think the pages currently imply or treat it as dura-neg. The ki page specifically states Hakai targets the soul directly implying normal ki doesn't. DB thread was also saying it wouldn't work against huge gaps when someone made Raditz vs Infinite, so I don't think they're treating it as such. I think maybe peeps are just misunderstanding the CRT that introduced it?
 
Rouge does resist Soul Manipulation... In her Modern Era key from fighting back against the Ifrit's powers.
 
LaserPrecision said:
Well I don't think the pages currently imply or treat it as dura-neg. The ki page specifically states Hakai targets the soul directly implying normal ki doesn't. DB thread was also saying it wouldn't work against huge gaps when someone made Raditz vs Infinite, so I don't think they're treating it as such. I think maybe peeps are just misunderstanding the CRT that introduced it?
Click to expand...
Guy who made the CRT said this.
To be honest, it would probably take just a single one. Nobody is saying that a single hit destroys the soul. The attack has to be large and powerful enough to do so. But a decent hit that actually causes damage would be enough if the soul can't resist the attack.
Click to expand...
 
LaserPrecision said:
Doesn't the soul hax just enable them to attack spiritual beings as if they were physical? I'm pretty sure the ki page doesn't depict it as dura-neg hax that one-shots people without resistance or as being able to target the soul specifically (Unless it's via Hakai, in which case it does)
Click to expand...
That’s what I read it as, NPI and not straight up soul destruction.
 
I am NOT touching soul stuff

Advantages for Rouge:
  • Massive AP/dura advantage (121.376075671x; 30.1 Foe vs 5.9k Quettatons).
  • Massive combat intelligence gap (EG vs Above Average) + Analytical Prediction.
  • Self-Healing.
  • Paralysis Inducement.
  • Big AD.
Advantages for 18:
  • Massive speed advantage (1163.79310345x; >216,000 c vs 185.6 c, SA2 Rouge does not scale to SA2 Sonic and Shadow's speed, only by Heroes does she intercept a fight between Omega and Shadow. The MFTL+ stat is outdated, same for her High 4-C stat not being 4-B)
  • Massive LS advantage (684.04897905x; >3,002,361.41 Tons vs 4,389.10297647 Tons)
  • Massive range gap (Interstellar vs Tens of Meters) though starting distance nullifies this, at this at the start of the fight.
  • Massive stamina gap (Infinite vs Superhuman, which is a couple of days for Rouge)
  • Minor BFR.
Overall:
Rouge has zero way of tagging a character that perception blitzes her beyond belief.

While 18 cannot knock down at all with AP attacks (plus minor BFRs are less effective on characters that no-sell the attack anyways, and Rouge can self-heal) she's still able to overpower her via her lifting strength and one-shot her in that way. Another way she could win is by outlasting her with stamina overtime, which will take a couple of days.

Rouge's AD does allow her to increase in speed passively and through battle (assuming the one on her page is outdated and the one knuckles has is more accurate), though how exponential this is and whether she can evolve enough in time is not really explicit at least to me, and that's assuming 18 just tries to wait out the fight and not just overpower her via superior LS.

Going with 18 here
 
Ednaxel2 said:
Rouge's AD does allow her to increase in speed passively and through battle (assuming the one on her page is outdated and the one knuckles has is more accurate), though how exponential this is and whether she can evolve enough in time is not really explicit at least to me, and that's assuming 18 just tries to wait out the fight and not just overpower her via superior LS
Click to expand...
The AD from speed sim leveling alone is nowhere near notable enough to cover such a gap. And if Rouge can't touch 18 due to speed diff, this is a stomp
 
GlaceonGamez471 said:
The AD from speed sim leveling alone is nowhere near notable enough to cover such a gap. And if Rouge can't touch 18 due to speed diff, this is a stomp
Click to expand...
I think stuff from Battles would be pretty fair game if we're using stuff from Heroes. Unless this is restricted to just SA2 and Heroes. Cuz Battle could put Rouge pretty high up AD-wise with her fighting 7-Emerald Emerl.
 
ZothythoTheNephalem said:
I think stuff from Battles would be pretty fair game if we're using stuff from Heroes. Unless this is restricted to just SA2 and Heroes. Cuz Battle could put Rouge pretty high up AD-wise with her fighting 7-Emerald Emerl.
Click to expand...
What abilities were from Heroes? I don’t wanna take abilities from other keys for this
 
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