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Rimuru (LN) vs Arale (Low 1-C)

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Bernkastelll

Bernkastelll

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Since everyone is discussing about this in the Top 15 strongest thread, why not a Versus Match?

Speed Equal

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Rimuru Tempest (Light Novel)

Rimuru Tempest (リムル＝テンペスト, Rimuru Tenpesuto?), formerly known as Satoru Mikami (三上みかみ悟さとる, Mikami Satoru?), is the main protagonist of Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken. He is an Otherworlder reincarnated as a slime, and the sworn friend of the Storm Dragon Veldora Tempest. He is the founder and...
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Arale Norimaki (Dragon Ball Fusions)

Arale Norimaki (則巻アラレ, Norimaki Arare) is a robot built by Senbei Norimaki that looks like a little girl. She is known for her naivety, energetic personality, lack of common sense, and amazingly unbelievable strength. Among her strength, she can use abilities that range from the terrain...
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Rimuru:

Arale:

Saitama:
 
What's Arale win con?
Her plot manip doesn't work on cm1 so i don't think she has any win con at all.
 
This is a stomp for rimuru, for starters Arale can't come back from the destruction of her concept, if her concept is destroyed no other Hax matters.
 
Meli_Tempest said:
This is a stomp for rimuru, for starters Arale can't come back from the destruction of her concept, if her concept is destroyed no other Hax matters.
Click to expand...
You dimwit (Sorry if I am being a bit word-strong here)... So you are using the same argument we spent the entire last CRT denying wouldn't work due to IM 2? Or the fact that they need both to interact with him?

CM 1 alone only makes it so that Arael can't interact with RImuru, it doesn't grant him an instant win.
 
“For example, per default plot manipulation would not be able to manipulate concepts, but concept erasure can't necessarily be used to erase the plot either. In a vs-debate a clash between such powers may have an indeterminate outcome, unless at least one of the fictions involved clarifies how the interaction between the metaphysical aspects works.“

^From the Metaphysical Aspects page

Inconclusive

Arale can’t interact with Tensura and Tensura lacks the ability to nullify her layered Plot HGR. I don’t think Tensura can even attack Arale with her passive plot manipulation placing her beyond the range of any Tensura character (Arale’s range is at least 1 layer above baseline infinite L1C structure).
 
Dark_Soul20189 said:
You dimwit (Sorry if I am being a bit word-strong here)... So you are using the same argument we spent the entire last CRT denying wouldn't work due to IM 2? Or the fact that they need both to interact with him?

CM 1 alone only makes it so that Arael can't interact with RImuru, it doesn't grant him an instant win.
Click to expand...
The argument was that plot manipulation was needed to deal with her’s multi-location, since it can exist outside the plot, but it's doesn't even matter if rim destroys her concept.

This is not like abstract existence, where regardless of circumstances you cannot interact if you are missing some aspect, it is a matter of whether their bodies are in or out of the plot at the start of combat, since if they are in there is no need for Plot manipulation, destruction of their concept would suffice. And your HGR doesn't work in concept, so it can't come back.

Or I may be doing something wrong here, sorry, it's 3 am.
 
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MountainWine said:
I don’t think Tensura can even attack Arale with her passive plot manipulation placing her beyond the range of any Tensura character (Arale’s range is at least 1 layer above baseline infinite L1C structure).
Click to expand...
Why are we still talking about "above the baseline" of L1-C?, such a thing is not possible to begin with, Cantor would be rolling over in his grave.
 
MountainWine said:
It’s a wiki standard and the DB Game’s cosmology clearly outlines it. Change it if you don’t like it.
Click to expand...
It makes no sense to anyone familiar with Cantor set theory.

But following such (illogical) logic, Tensura is also well far above the "L1-C baseline" in range.
 
Meli_Tempest said:
Why are we still talking about "above the baseline" of L1-C?, such a thing is not possible to begin with, Cantor would be rolling over in his grave.
Click to expand...
It is possible a single timeline in dragon ball is low 1c there are infinite number of this timelines in dbh and c.o.t contains them all and is way beyond the scope of multiverse it is accepted as such

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Dragon Ball (Games) Cosmology

This page will cover the cosmology of the Dragon Ball Games' Cosmology, more specifically, Dragon Ball Heroes and Xenoverse multiverse, or we can call it Dragon Ball Heroes multiverse for short Well, at first we should cover the basics of the cosmology first before we dive into the game's...
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Also yes rimuru doesn't have necessary range to affect arale as she could possibly go outside of plot itself
So it is incon
 
Meli_Tempest said:
It makes no sense to anyone familiar with Cantor set theory.

But following such (illogical) logic, Tensura is also well far above the "L1-C baseline" in range.
Click to expand...
Not gonna argue there. A lot of the Tier 2 and 1 section dealing with dimensions and mathematics in vswiki makes no sense and is essentially make believe.

The standard does agree that 2A^2A isn’t actually bigger than 2A. Unless the series states so and makes it apparent. DB does this to an already infinite amount of L1C structures while Tensura only has countless structures and no such statements or demonstrations.
 
if she can get outside of the plot so he doesn't affect her
and he cannot be affected by her

then let's vote incon and gg
add me as a voter for incon FRA
 
Huesito88 said:
Well that decision is up to our VBW overlords to decide
Click to expand...
Yeah but Arale has 0 win conditions and 0 ways to defend herself.
Except going outside the plot. This kind of things should be counted as a win for the counterpart in my opinion.
 
I’m not gonna have a full length debate about this right now because I’m busy with plans. But for what it’s worth I’ll submit an input (since I’m being compelled by forces I can’t control)

This is an incon and I’ll state why:

In terms or Rimuru:
His AE1 based on concept around concept so Arale wouldn’t be able to permanently put him down. She could probably mess with him by rewriting his physical body’s narrative design into 💩 but skills are inscribed on the soul and his spiritual body which is made of information AND concept so that likely only slow him down at best since him using skills wouldn’t be negated.

In terms of Arale:
Range is a factor. As of how VBW treats range. Arale has layers above standard range. For those who don’t know what layered range is…. Basically if it’s shown/proven in verse that characters even with 5-D range can’t reach a certain area (not because they are being blocked and restricted but just genuinely their range ain’t enough to reach the area in question) and then ANOTHER character has 5-D range and could reach the area which the prior character with 5-D range could not then that’s layered range. Arale has 2 layers above standard range for being able to go outside the plot and her Multilocation allows her to start inside and outside of the plot at the same time. So even if Rimuru erases her concept or whatever have you…. The range of how far his conceptual manipulation can extend wouldn’t go farther than standard 5-D range I.E. can’t reach Arale.

Another factor I’ll bring up is that they may not even fight at all. Remember that the fight is IC and IC unless you did something personally to piss Rimuru off. He tries to work things out with words first assuming you can be reasoned with. That’s consistent behavior for him. So he won’t immediately fly off the rails and go “Concept Hax goes Brrrrr”. Instead he’ll likely just try to deduce Arale intent. If Arale starts off with social influence then that’s it because Arale will LITERALLY lead with “hey Rimuru let’s play” or “let’s be friends”. In character Rimuru ain’t attacking someone that:

1. Has no malicious intent
2. Genuinely is friendly and prefers to be friends than fight
3. Had the same kind of smile he wants to protect for all his people


I.E. Rimuru and Arale turns friends and GG
 
Dark_Soul20189 said:
Voting RImuru, Self-BFR is pretty much just an instant loss for her.
Click to expand...
self-bfr isn't a loss, there are characters that self-bfr to different place and attacks their foes from that place, it is pretty common in fiction
MountainWine said:
2A^2A isn’t actually bigger than 2A
Click to expand...
2A^2A = countable infinite^countable infinite = uncountable infinite = aleph-1 = Low 1-C bruhh, you used wrong math term
 
Vietthai96 said:
self-bfr isn't a loss, there are characters that self-bfr to different place and attacks their foes from that place, it is pretty common in fiction
Click to expand...
Self BFR counts as a instant lose according to SBA.
Victory Conditions: Death of the opponent, removing the opponent from the battlefield for at least one week (BFR), knocking the opponent out for at least one hour, or incapacitating the opponent by putting him in a state in which he can not harm the other fighter(s) for over a day, are to be assumed as victory conditions.
Click to expand...
 
Dark_Soul20189 said:
Self BFR counts as a instant lose according to SBA.
Click to expand...
Victory Conditions: Death of the opponent, removing the opponent from the battlefield for at least one week (BFR), knocking the opponent out for at least one hour, or incapacitating the opponent by putting him in a state in which he can not harm the other fighter(s) for over a day, are to be assumed as victory conditions.
Click to expand...
You need to be the one who bfr your opponent to get the win, not the opponents bfr themselves, by your logic, characters travel to the past to kill their opponents' past selves also mean a loss for them cause they bfr themselves to the past
 
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