Resistance to time stop & existence erasure.

[Incutones]

Why does Goku & Jiren have resistance to time stop if it was stated that Hit's time abilities aren't as effective against opponents equal to or greater than him? Other characters in fiction that have time stop has it to where it's effective no matter how strong the opponent is. Shouldn't their resistance be removed because of that?

Also, the Hakai was never stated to DIRECTLY attack the soul. Both Goku & Frieza have shown that all that's needed to resist the hakai is to simply overpower it. Frieza even stated something like "let me demonstrate my new powers" & then proceeded to overpower the hakai with raw strength. This implies that the hakai only works on opponents weaker than the user & only erases them from existence AFTER destroying them.

 

[Anonimoe7875]

Beerus destroyed a ghost using hakai, IIRC.

 

[OmniTops]

That weakness is exclusive of Manga, in the anime it is never said that the Time Stop is not as effective against opponents equal to or superior to Hit.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Beerus destroyed a ghost using hakai, IIRC.

Yes Beerus destroyed a ghost.

 

[PaChi2]

You dont know how many discussions about this stuff we have had. Im tired of this. Seriously.

 

[Incutones]

That weakness is exclusive of Manga, in the anime it is never said that the Time Stop is not as effective against opponents equal to or superior to Hit.

The manga's canon & gives details of things the anime doesn't explain.

 

[The_Everlasting]

>The manga's canon

No, it's an adaptation of the anime.

 

[PaChi2]

The manga's canon & gives details of things the anime doesn't explain.

Lol. I like how you say the manga is canon and try to say that hakai only works on weaker opponents. Goku vs Zamasu disproves your point.

 

[Incutones]

The manga's canon & gives details of things the anime doesn't explain.

Lol. I like how you say the manga is canon and try to say that hakai only works on weaker opponents. Goku vs Zamasu disproves your point.

I honestly forgot about that. Oops. What about the time skip thing though?

 

[Incutones]

>The manga's canon
No, it's an adaptation of the anime.

Isn't it considered secondary canon & only disregarded when something in it contradicts whats been shown in the anime?

 

[The_Everlasting]

Yes, which is pretty much anything actually relevant.

Also, Hit's Time-Leap can work against Jiren.

 

[OmniTops]

In the same anime he says he is beyond his Time Stop.

 

[Anonimoe7875]

Yet Hit used it agaisn't Jiren...

 

[Incutones]

In the same anime he says he is beyond his Time Stop.

That just helped my point, that the stronger you are the less effective it is. That implies that a certain level of power is required to resist it. When Hit improved above Goku, Goku wasn't able to resist anymore.

 

[Incutones]

Yet Hit used it agaisn't Jiren...

It never said that it was completely ineffective against stronger opponents, just not AS effective. Jiren seeing right through it would support that point as well.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Jiren "saw through it" by predicting where Hit would be.

 

[PaChi2]

Jiren "saw through it" by predicting where Hit would be.

jiren noped it with his awesome stare.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Jiren's stares are legit 3-A.

 

[Incutones]

I'm a bit confused about the time skip thing. Sometimes he's shown to stop time & sometimes he's shown to skip it.

 

[Golden_Void]

Hakai =/= energy of destruction

And that isn't to say Hit's time skip doesn't work at all, it still does.

 

[OmniTops]

In the same anime he says he is beyond his Time Stop.

That just helped my point, that the stronger you are the less effective it is. That implies that a certain level of power is required to resist it. When Hit improved above Goku, Goku wasn't able to resist anymore.

Hit has not used the Time Stop against Goku since their first confrontation, and Hit did not surpass Goku, rather Goku surpassed it to the point that he did not need to use the Kaioken during his second encounter. Jiren was superior to Hit and his Time Stop if it affected him, so the level of power does not affect whether a character can or can not withstand Hit's Time Stop.

 

[Golden_Void]

Time skip and time stop are two different things. Jiren fodderized Hit with time skip. He broke Hit's time stop.

 

[Incutones]

In the same anime he says he is beyond his Time Stop.

That just helped my point, that the stronger you are the less effective it is. That implies that a certain level of power is required to resist it. When Hit improved above Goku, Goku wasn't able to resist anymore.

Hit has not used the Time Stop against Goku since their first confrontation, and Hit did not surpass Goku, rather Goku surpassed it to the point that he did not need to use the Kaioken during his second encounter. Jiren was superior to Hit and his Time Stop if it affected him, so the level of power does not affect whether a character can or can not withstand Hit's Time Stop.

I was referring to the tournament right after Goku overpowered it, Hit improved above Goku & used it again.

 

[Incutones]

Also, I believe I mixed up time skip with time stop. The manga scan i'm referring to states his time stop isn't as effective against stronger opponents, which hasn't been contradicted yet. And before someone says, "but it worked on Jiren", it doesn't say it will completely stop working on stronger opponents, nor have I stated that. It just simply states it's not as effective, which would explain both Goku & Jiren being able to somewhat resist it.

 

[Golden_Void]

Also, I believe I mixed up time skip with time stop. The manga scan i'm referring to states his time stop isn't as effective against stronger opponents, which hasn't been contradicted yet. And before someone says, "but it worked on Jiren", it doesn't say it will completely stop working on stronger opponents, nor have I stated that. It just simply states it's not as effective, which would explain both Goku & Jiren being able to somewhat resist it.

"Why does Goku & Jiren have resistance to time stop if it was stated that Hit's time abilities aren't as effective against opponents equal to or greater than him? Other characters in fiction that have time stop has it to where it's effective no matter how strong the opponent is. Shouldn't their resistance be removed because of that?"

When you end up debunking your own thread lol

 

[Incutones]

I was referring to their profiles of how they have resistance to time stop in general.

 

[Incutones]

Hit's time stop is not as effective against stronger opponents, whereas other characters in fiction have time stop that's effective regardless of the opponent's strength. They should only be resistant to his time stop because of this.

 

[SomebodyData]

That's manga only tho isn't it?

 

[Anonimoe7875]

Yes, that is only said in the manga.

 

[Incutones]

The manga is secondary canon & is only disregarded when it contradicts the anime. The time stop thing doesn't contradict anything in the anime.

 

[The_Everlasting]

We don't really account for anything in the manga tho.

Also again, Hit's time stop works against Jiren, who is literally infinitely stronger than him.

 

[Incutones]

But it doesn't contradict anything. It worked on Jiren, but it wasn't as effective as it normally is, because of its weakness.

 

[The_Everlasting]

No, it was fully effective, it was just less useful because Jiren could predict where Hit would be. It's not like he shrugged it off with no issues.

 

[Incutones]

You're talking about the time skip. Time skip & time stop are apparently two different things completely. The scan i'm referring to is talks about the time stop.

 

[Incutones]

I initially got the two mixed up.

 

[The_Everlasting]

They really aren't different things.

 

[Incutones]

One skips time & one stops time, that's pretty different.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Hit only ever stops time. They just call it skipping to be cool.

 

[Golden_Void]

It's shown that his ability works on people even on Jiren's level, though their skill and power can make it less effective to follow through with combat, the ability itself doesn't get any weaker.

 

[Incutones]

They've shown to be different though. This was shown against Goku in the tournament. Time-skip was when he skipped time & Goku predicted his movements ahead of time, & time-stop was when he was shown to be attacking while time was stopped & Goku couldn't do anything about it until he grew stronger than him.