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Ren Amamiya vs Nahobino
- Thread starter XXKINGXX69
- Start date
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Joker's passive Fatehax allow him to win the battle.
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No, it wouldn’t. Trickster doesn’t auto-win.
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- Thread starter
- #4
It just helps him adapt and eventually overcome threats, doesn't just instantly make himself fated to win
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That's moreso his RE/AD, but as Milly said, Fatehax isn't an "instant-win" either.
For now, I'll vote for Joker. I think he simply has more versatility than Nahobino, due to his ability to switch between a multitude of Personas in comparison to Nahobino's maximum of eight skills (though this point might be moot if that's simply gameplay mechanics). Regardless, Joker can simply switch to a Persona that nullifies, drains, repels, or at least resist most of Nahobino's skillset.
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- Thread starter
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Prove that joker swaps personas to null attacks in character
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He's an RPG character, so he doesn't have a set fighting style or set of tactics he employs. It can be logically inferred that he would switch to a Persona most advantageous for given situation (especially when he can do so with a thought) due his sense of self-preservation.
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- #8
you can watch the anime
TheKingStrategist13
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Most of the time, when discussing RPG characters, if they lack a set character for Battle In Game, it is inferred that they will do what they must in order to win in most threads. In addition, in Persona, and especially in P5, it is emphasized in game to capitalize on Weakness's and Resistances. As such, it can be inferred that Joker is at least willing to switch to be more advantageous. Can you prove it's out of character for him to switch to do so?
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"Most of the time" When?
It is inferred by who?
Sure
I agree since he has done that, but we don't know if he's gonna start the fight by swapping to null attacks. He will do that sometime in the fight but we wouldn't know when exactly, so while I think it will help, I don't think its a win con for Joker
TheKingStrategist13
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I agree that he won't immediately do it per say, but that's more so because he wouldn't know off the bat what Nahobino has in store. But I do believe that once he does switch, he's going to become significantly more difficult for Nahobino to win against.
On... This wiki, in other threads...? Where and when else would I be referring to? Time and time again, people infer that since they have little character set for battle,that they're willing to use their full repertoire to their advantage in battle.
On... This wiki, in other threads...? Where and when else would I be referring to? Time and time again, people infer that since they have little character set for battle,that they're willing to use their full repertoire to their advantage in battle.
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We know Joker will obviously at least think to swap personas to null attacks, but I don't think he'll just swap several times to null every attack considering he does swap characters for offensive purposes more than defensive
Thats appeal to popularity. I have no issues with Joker using his full repertoire but how does that mean he will spam persona swaps to null characters
TheKingStrategist13
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I... Don't think the point was ever that he would spam swap, even though he could. I think it was more so that he could have a Persona that Null's most or all of Nahobino's skills.
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In order to do that, I think he would need to be swapping quite a lot, unless there's some persona I forgot about that nulls/repels or drains like 3 or more elements at once
TheKingStrategist13
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I know there are at least ones that do that to two while resisting other's. Could check the Compendium, though that would take some time.
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He can swap his Personas with a thought, given how they're simply manifestations of his own Mind/Soul. It'd be the equivalent of a well-trained fighter instinctively clenching or blocking oncoming attacks.
That being said, he doesn't necessarily need to swap Personas either. He can simply dodge Nahobino's spell and/or shield himself with Tetrakarn/Makarakarn.
This matchup is hard to determine due to how evenly-matched both characters are in regards to hax, abilities, and even combat skill (despite the differing levels of intelligence on their pages).
SonicBayo1999
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You got a kid with unfathomable godly powers vs a kid with unfathomable godly powers. I say it boils down to looks and The Nahobino looking kinda sexy ngl 
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This isn’t a wincon because Nahobino would really just… do the same, except with the fact that he can add 3 extra Demons to help him, while Ren can only use one Persona at a time.
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That's only really half true. ren has the Sleuthing Mastery: Chance to reveal all of one enemy’s affinities at the start of battle. Which would be a lot more of a effective passive way to reveal weaknesses than wasting resources on magnifying glasses to find a exploitable weaknesses.
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I don't see how Ren simply knowing his enemies' affinities is a wincon, when Nahobino (and presumably his demons) can match his speed and have methods of covering their weaknesses.
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Expect in standard equipment: Ring of Wrath giving him passive speed master/Auto Sukukaja making him more evasive at the start.
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What's stopping Nahobino from just...casting Sukukaja himself? Or casting Dekeja?
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In this type of match with speed master in play even if the speed buff is lost and only has that advantage for a short moment he could use the ring of vanity which nullifies any of his weaknesses which is gonna make trying to hit ren's weaknesses first definitely more difficult even with making this battle a 1 v 4.
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All of one. Against 4. Not all that helpful. Is that even a mid-game item?
If he can afflict it, not like it matters with Patra & Amritra Shower.
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Nahobino has electricity manipulation
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Yeah it sleuths out a opponent's affinity and everything their weak/strong against, so unless your appealing to possibly that it would just target a random demon rather than the nahobino I don't see ren not figuring everything out. it's confidant skill you get from akechi and it's right under information analysis in his mid keys
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I said one, I never said it wasn’t going to be him. But if Ren suddenly figures out his weakness on one, he would just summon a demon that nulls those attacks. Again, 4 vs 1 with opponents that are all comparable isn’t exactly easy here.
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The Ring of Vanity doesn't nullify weaknesses. It simply reverts the affinity of weaknesses to neutral. Elemental affinity would matter as much when Nahobino's party would consist of four relatively equal Demons who could all attack Ren at any given moment.
On that note, the number advantage in Nahobino's favor would simply allow him to do more at once compared to Ren. He could have a Demon Sukukaja-amp him until he blitzes whilst the others are holding off Ren. Assuming that Ren doesn't resist, Nahobino's Demons could spam status-inflicting spells.
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What are all the demons Nahobino has who are strong enough to take at least 1 hit from Joker? Joker using Okuninushi can one shot Thor
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I mean, Okuninushi himself, considering you get him mid-game. Any of the beings you beat by mid-game you can summon.
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I think Joker's would be more powerful than a regular Okuninushi due to the wild card and other factors. One example is that his Vishnu's Megidolaon is not significantly weaker than Yaldabaoth's attacks, and I'm sure you'd agree that Yaldabaoth would be several orders of magnitude above a regular Vishnu
Are there any Low 1-C demons Nahobino can beat/summon that are that much stronger than Thor?
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Detox would passively cure it.
SonicBayo1999
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This is like the 2 of the smartest kids in school were about to fight in a game of chess.
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According to the AP justification for his Low 1-C, this version of Nahobino is post-Throne Race. Thus, he'd have access to Odin, Vasuki, Ishtar, and Mother Harlot; all of whom should be vastly more powerful than Thor. I believe (though am not entirely sure) he should also scale above three of the four Archangels (and have the ability to summon them), who are dimensionally superior to Thor, since the side quest in which he fights them is given to players before entering the Temple of Eternity.
If I remember correctly, Detox only has a certain chance of triggering. The point would still stand.
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If you can prove it, sure.
I don’t get this example.
Nahobino scales hilariously above Thor, and the strongest being he fights Pre-Empyrean is either Odin, or as mentioned, Three Archangels, which are above Yetzirah, making him 6-D.
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If wanna get technical on coverage then ren with X persona that has Unshaken Will to negate mental status effects added with that chance to detox to cut a lot status effect options down a peg.
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I don't think he'd even have access to that skill. The earliest one can get Unshaken Will is from Yamata-no-Orochi in Shido's palace, which is obviously far past his Low 1-C key.
