Removing 666:Satan's 52x Multiplier

[Sir_Ovens]

So I've been made aware that we can't actually use Satan's 52x multiplier to justify Mori's durability.

As we see in this chapter, Satan multiplies his strength and speed by 52x, allowing him to shatter Yeoui in two and beat Mori relentlessly later on. Now the problem with this is that if we take this at face value, Satan should have reduced Mori to gore. Either that or Mori scales in durability to 52x Satan. However, prior to the amp, Mori and Satan were duking it out evenly, which creates a recursive scaling of Mori being 52x base Satan but still matching him in combat.

So I'm proposing that we remove the 52x multiplier from the scaling chain, which would mean Mori goes back down to 4-C in Monkey King mode, and will be 4-B (3.8846622e+47 J) with 250,000x Jeahbongchim.

This will of course downgrade every other 4-B up until Supreme God Mujin.​

 

[DivineAura44]

I haven't watched nor read GoH but this downgrade seems weird. There is a statement that it multiplies Satan by 52x. This is virtually verbatim. Your counter is that this wouldn't logically make sense due to the fact Mori would have been demolished beyond recognition. Now while this does apply in real life, GOH is everything but. We shouldn't hold every little thing to that high of a standard or a bunch of verses would be downgraded. We gonna nerf Goku to kingdom come by saying he should have vaporized any bullet that hit him in the beginning of Super?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

We literally have guidelines that illustrate how multipliers need to be consistent to be considered valid. This is not a consistent multiplier. It should not be used.

 

[Maitreya12]

Disagree for multiple reasons.

1) GoH is simply a series where people don’t need a 7.5x gap to be one shot. For example, another characters ability, Q, has a move where he dished out exactly 100x his opponents own power back at them. But characters can survive this move. Do we now say his ability doesn’t work as stated because it didn’t splatter the character into oblivion now too? In fact this type of reason is exactly why the one shot standard is being revised on the wiki. Where the one shot standard is proposed to dramatically increase to upwards of 400x

2) We don’t need to downgrade Mori to 4C since you can simply say Satan is High 4C just as Mori is and this would work fine since Satan when he fights Mori is in phase 2 and previously in a phase one state he performed a bare minimum 4C+ feat, and then proceeds to be completely even with Mori.

The multipliers are extremely consistent in the series as the author gives an exactly number and stated multiple each and every time it’s used so it’s fundamentally weird to dismiss this canon multiplier for the characters just because this one specific multiplier doesn’t meet the arbitrary criteria for one shot this site has determined which is currently in the midst of being revised itself.

So I disagree for the downgrade.

 

[DivineAura44]

We literally have guidelines that illustrate how multipliers need to be consistent to be considered valid. This is not a consistent multiplier. It should not be used.

I mean this upgrade doesn't prove it's inconsistent, just not parallel to real life. You have to prove 52x in that verse is enough to do damage Mori to "gore".

 

[DMUA]

This reminds me of something I noticed about Divine Acupuncture's multiplier as a whole, actually

It's a multiplier of the power levels we see early in the series, stuff like how Mori Jin was normally at level 6, but he shoots up to 8-B (13) by using Re Taekwondo

 

[Majinere566]

Neutral

 

[Maitreya12]

We literally have guidelines that illustrate how multipliers need to be consistent to be considered valid. This is not a consistent multiplier. It should not be used.

What’s not consistent for the multiplier?

 

[DivineAura44]

What’s not consistent for the multiplier?

The fact that it doesn't "gore", I guess. I don't see how that makes it inconsistent but...

 

[Sir_Ovens]

If Satan is literally multiplying his power by 52x, Mori would need to be 52x in durability to survive the beating. However, Satan and Mori were fighting evenly before the 52x multiplier. How can Satan be 52x his own AP in base before the multiplier?

 

[Maitreya12]

The fact that it doesn't "gore", I guess. I don't see how that makes it inconsistent but...

Yeah that doesn’t make it inconsistent with the series especially since this multiplier is constantly used and always has a specific multiplier added to it.

Also this “gore” standard is being revised on the wiki itself so it makes even less sense.

 

[DivineAura44]

If Satan is literally multiplying his power by 52x, Mori would need to be 52x in durability to survive the beating.

You haven't proved this though. You are just making assumptions using common sense and realism when fiction is usually everything but. This statement is also wrong. Someone can output 2x more than someone's durability and might not kill. Hell even on this wiki it takes 7x for a one shot.

 

[Maitreya12]

If Satan is literally multiplying his power by 52x, Mori would need to be 52x in durability to survive the beating. However, Satan and Mori were fighting evenly before the 52x multiplier. How can Satan be 52x his own AP in base before the multiplier?

Maybe Mori can just tank stuff 52x himself without being turned to dust? Especially since the dude is wearing armor on.

The blows simply hurt him more but he doesn’t die from them.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Maitreya, let me explain to you how Newton's 3rd law works.

If I punch you with x amount of force and you aren't very much harmed by it, you can tank x amount of force.

By that same token, if you could punch with x amount of force, you must be able to take x amount of punishment because anything less would severely injure you.

So Mori being 52x Satan's base AP doesn't make sense if Satan in base could harm him without breaking his arms.

 

[DivineAura44]

Maitreya, let me explain to you how Newton's 3rd law works.

If I punch you with x amount of force and you aren't very much harmed by it, you can tank x amount of force.

By that same token, if you could punch with x amount of force, you must be able to take x amount of punishment because anything less would severely injure you.

So Mori being 52x Satan's base AP doesn't make sense if Satan in base could harm him without breaking his arms.

Once again, argument based on realism.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Our wiki's stats are all done this way. Literally every page has Newton's 3rd Law applied to them.

 

[Chariot190]

Reading those chapters, it looks like Satan is kind of sandbagging, in that he's actively not killing Mori, and instead just beating the shit out of him because he's having fun?
I could get the argument if he amped 52x and tried to kill, but amping 52x and then just manhandling your foe because it's fun is a tad different.

 

[Maitreya12]

Maitreya, let me explain to you how Newton's 3rd law works.

If I punch you with x amount of force and you aren't very much harmed by it, you can tank x amount of force.

By that same token, if you could punch with x amount of force, you must be able to take x amount of punishment because anything less would severely injure you.

So Mori being 52x Satan's base AP doesn't make sense if Satan in base could harm him without breaking his arms.

Mori isn’t 52x stronger than base Satan, I am genuinely confused on where you’re getting this from. Mori ranking 52x base Satan doesn’t mean Mori is 52x stronger than base Satan. Where are you getting the stronger from?

We have durability and AP as different ratings after which we literally don’t scale to each other.

I genuinely, honestly don’t know why you’re bringing up Newtonian physics like this when on this very wiki we treat your striking AP and your durability as separate categories since glass canons exist and such.

 

[azontr]

Just upgrade Satan to High 4-C lel.

 

[DivineAura44]

Our wiki's stats are all done this way. Literally every page has Newton's 3rd Law applied to them.

NGL I misread what you put, I agree with that. However, I disagree with the notion that being 52x stronger than one makes you able to demolish unless shown in verse.

 

[DivineAura44]

Reading those chapters, it looks like Satan is kind of sandbagging, in that he's actively not killing Mori, and instead just beating the shit out of him because he's having fun?
I could get the argument if he amped 52x and tried to kill, but amping 52x and then just manhandling your foe because it's fun is a tad different.

I was gonna say this but once again I haven't read GoH so I don't know his intent.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

FFS Mori is currently rated at High 4-C BECAUSE he tanked Satan's 52x multiplier. He then fought corona absorbed Satan on even grounds so his AP scales to his Dura.

 

[azontr]

Easy fix: Upgrade Satan to High 4-C.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Just upgrade Satan to High 4-C lel.

It's literally recursive scaling. Satan is High 4-C BECAUSE he multiplied his AP by 52x. Logically he would be 52x weaker than that in base, which was the 4-C scaling to Daewi.

 

[Maitreya12]

FFS Mori is currently rated at High 4-C BECAUSE he tanked Satan's 52x multiplier. He then fought corona absorbed Satan on even grounds so his AP scales to his Dura.

Dude Phase 2 Satan would be High 4C regardless thanks to him in base performing already a 4C+-High 4C feat. The Satan that Mori is fighting is in phase 2.

I’m also still try to understand where you’re getting “Mori is 52x stronger than Satan” from him simply tanking attacks from 52x Satan. We have durability and AP as separate categories for this reason as they don’t necessarily scale to one another.

 

[sunshine]

Downgrade thread?? Bruh

 

[DivineAura44]

Easy fix: Upgrade Satan to High 4-C.

Azon, if X scales to Y feat through scaling to A and but A can't scale to Y feat than the whole scale is destroyed. Unless you are arguing for X to upscale (or they got some feat I don't know about). Then that would make sense.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Dude Phase 2 Satan would be High 4C regardless thanks to him in base performing already a 4C+-High 4C feat. The Satan that Mori is fighting is in phase 2.

I’m also still try to understand where you’re getting “Mori is 52x stronger than Satan” from him simply tanking attacks from 52x Satan. We have durability and AP as separate categories for this reason as they don’t necessarily scale to one another.

My brother in christ, if you are X dura and I hurt you that makes me X AP.

 

[azontr]

Azon, if X scales to Y feat through scaling to A and but A can't scale to Y feat than the whole scale is destroyed. Unless you are arguing for X to upscale (or they got some feat I don't know about). Then that would make sense.

I know. Acutely aware, in fact.

I was trolling.

 

[DivineAura44]

I know. Acutely aware, in fact.

I was trolling.

My heart after you acknowledge me:

 

[Maitreya12]

My brother in christ, if you are X dura and I hurt you that makes me X AP.

So where are you getting that Mori is 52x stronger than base Satan if Mori never hurt 52x stronger Satan?

 

[azontr]

But uh seriously

I agree with the downgrades to be completely honest. While I don't think the multipliers are inconsistent, this is the best for scaling purposes.

 

[sunshine]

Is this really only due to a base Mori surviving a x52 amped Satan and being relative to him? Can't we say that that Mori was just simply more skilled and closed the gap? Like we know Satan is less of a skills guy, and Mori can literally close gaps without needing to be amped by literal skills.

 

[azontr]

Besides, even without this, shouldn't Satan absorbing the Sun's Corona get results that are around High 4-C anyway? We don't necessarily have to rely on multipliers to get to where we are.

 

[DivineAura44]

But uh seriously

I agree with the downgrades to be completely honest. While I don't think the multipliers are inconsistent, this is the best for scaling purposes.

If you don't mind me asking, how exactly? As I have said before I am not aware of the scaling in this verse so I don't know it works.

 

[sunshine]

Is this really only due to a base Mori surviving a x52 amped Satan and being relative to him? Can't we say that that Mori was just simply more skilled and closed the gap? Like we know Satan is less of a skills guy, and Mori can literally close gaps without needing to be amped by literal skills.

He closed the Gap VS.Dean while Dean was obviously stronger with armorsuits than him with only his skills.

 

[DivineAura44]

Besides, even without this, shouldn't Satan absorbing the Sun's Corona get results that are around High 4-C anyway? We don't necessarily have to rely on multipliers to get to where we are.

But there's no reason to take it away especially if it could be used as justification.

 

[sunshine]

Besides, even without this, shouldn't Satan absorbing the Sun's Corona get results that are around High 4-C anyway? We don't necessarily have to rely on multipliers to get to where we are.

I agree with that.

 

[azontr]

If you don't mind me asking, how exactly? As I have said before I am not aware of the scaling in this verse so I don't know it works.

I was going to say that I agree with Oven's that the scaling becomes recursive, but, now that I look into it, I'm sort of confused as to our current High 4-C scaling all together.

 

[Maitreya12]

There is no reason to take it away because the crutch of the argument to take it away is the standard for one shotting

Which is again explicitly being revised on the wiki rn to much much higher levels. (50x, 175x, etc) so there really is no point for this argument to work.