Released/Armor Boros Speed

[CloverDragon03]

Already got my approvals

PF Garou > Boros

Not quite anymore since Duedate disagreed

 

[Golden_Void]

Arguments against the OP:

• Gery is Boros's subordinate, he's just faster (no proof required + Armored Boros is featless + Saitama's has reactions to Gery's throws and 0 reactions to Released Boros's anything, psychic powers don't scale to physicals)
• Dubious reply to non-existent tweet where someone relevant to the series thinks Boros kicked Saitama to the moon in 1.25 seconds (a hair over light speed, would be the first official mention of light speed Boros anywhere, even considering other interviews)
• "Just because Saitama was launched at near-LS doesn't mean Boros was capped at that speed" (basically the momentum equivalent of using FTL KE if you calculated this which is why this upgrade avenue was rejected many times in the past)

Did I miss anything? (I did)

-Boros can be a higher tier of sub-light speed and everything else would still be valid (see point 1)

 

[Kachon123]

Saitama was already attacked by Gery in the previous chapter. That is - prior to the actual feat I am referencing. He was surprised the first time, and after the first attack.

Incorrect. Saitama got hit once, and then showed interest, which carried over until right before he got hit the second time.

As far "In Saitama's eyes rocks at sub-light speed is nothing, it's like a bad joke." statement, the subject of that statement is the rocks

Also incorrect. What was nothing to Saitama is rocks AT sub-light speeds, not rocks themselves. We know this isn't true because of his fight with Tatsumaki. If Murata wanted to say that rocks as an attack is like a bad joke to Saitama, he'd say "In Saitama's eyes, using rocks as an attack is nothing, it's like a bad joke," rather than specifically pointing out their speed and what it looks like in Saitama's POV. This is basic grammar and reading comprehension.

"Rocks at sub-light speed" is entirely different from "sub-light speed is a joke"

"Rocks at sub-light speed is nothing" is the same as "sub-light speed is a joke." I don't know how else to explain this to you.

Even if he did specifically single out sub-light speed, is he referring to Gery's specific speed, or all speed under light speed in general?

They aren't mutually exclusive. In the full quote, "Saitama still beat him with a casual stone throw though. In Saitama's eyes rocks at sub-light speed is nothing, it's like a bad joke," he was referring to Geryuganshoop's attacks, but looking at the quote more generally, Murata is saying that Geryuganshoop's attacks are like a joke to and can be overcome with a casual attack because sub-light attacks are nothing to Saitama.

The energy used to propel the kick was attached to Saitama at the same time of these events. He was basically a part of Boros's body in that instance.

Incorrect as well.

Meteoric Burst is a transformation that allows Boros' latent energy flow out of and within his body semi-passively. He can use this flowing energy to enhance his attacks via propulsion. It's not possible for the energy that Boros uses as a propelling force to attack someone to somehow transfer into that person as a propelling force because that's not how his energy works. It's not a magic energy elevator that can be used to move people. It's literally just Boros turning himself into a rocket ship.

The energy protects Saitama from burning up. Surely you don't think Boros is intentionally looking out for Saitama's wellbeing?

That's not what I think. That's what Murata thinks.

ただ蹴り上げただけだと大気圏内で服が 燃えて素っ裸になってる筈なので(服は普通の材質 なのです)エネルギーで相手を包み込んで ほぼ光速ではじき出す技という事にして、 摩擦熱の疑問を解消しようとしたんですね。 でも何故帰りの大気圏突入で服が無事 なのか･･･ うーん、きっとボロスのエネルギーが まだ身体に残ってたんですよ・・・! (汗)

If he had just kicked his opponent, his clothes would have burned in the atmosphere and he would have been stripped naked (his clothes are made of ordinary material), so Boros tried to solve the question of frictional heat by using the technique of wrapping his opponent in energy and kicking him out at almost the speed of light. But why did his clothes survive the atmospheric entry on the way back? (sweat)

 

[CloverDragon03]

Arguments against the OP:

• Gery is Boros's subordinate, he's just faster (no proof required + Armored Boros is featless + Saitama's has reactions to Gery's throws and 0 reactions to Released Boros's anything, psychic powers don't scale to physicals)
• Dubious reply to non-existent tweet where someone relevant to the series thinks Boros kicked Saitama to the moon in 1.25 seconds (a hair over light speed, would be the first official mention of light speed Boros anywhere, even considering other interviews)
• "Just because Saitama was launched at near-LS doesn't mean Boros was capped at that speed" (basically the momentum equivalent of using FTL KE if you calculated this which is why this upgrade avenue was rejected many times in the past)

Did I miss anything? (I did)

-Boros can be a higher tier of sub-light speed and everything else would still be valid (see point 1)

When summarizing arguments like this, it's preferrable to just leave the arguments as is without including any of this commentary - as it comes off as very biased rather than an actual summary. It's easy for one side to downplay the other's arguments to achieve a desired result, which is not particularly healthy to have

 

[Golden_Void]

Incorrect. Saitama got hit once, and then showed interest, which carried over until right before he got hit the second time.

One is during a conversation. Another is done after he's had time to change his posture and watch the attack develop before him. The scene cut also does not serve the idea that he was just dumbfounded the entire time.

Also incorrect. What was nothing to Saitama is rocks AT sub-light speeds, not rocks themselves. We know this isn't true because of his fight with Tatsumaki.

Evidence from 150 chapters in the future. It's already established that Tatsumaki can't throw fast like Gery due to friction. Also she's throwing boulders not random gravel. And since Tatsumaki throws explicitly slower than Gery but Saitama says "that looks like it could be fun too" to her throwing rocks while staring in amazement, it becomes clearer that the issue/joke is not speed.

If Murata wanted to say that rocks as an attack is like a bad joke to Saitama, he'd say "In Saitama's eyes, using rocks as an attack is nothing, it's like a bad joke," rather than specifically pointing out their speed and what it looks like in Saitama's POV. This is basic grammar and reading comprehension.

If he wanted to convey sub-light speed is a bad joke, he wouldn't need to hide it behind the disguise of pebbles. He could just address the speed directly. Saitama getting booted at sub-light speeds then saying "now this looks like a real fight" disagrees with that notion. And before you say "that's because Boros is strong", look up the kinetic energy formula.

Incorrect as well.

Meteoric Burst is a transformation that allows Boros' latent energy flow out of and within his body semi-passively. He can use this flowing energy to enhance his attacks via propulsion. It's not possible for the energy that Boros uses as a propelling force to attack someone to somehow transfer into that person as a propelling force because that's not how his energy works. It's not a magic energy elevator that can be used to move people. It's literally just Boros turning himself into a rocket ship.

Out of all the attacks Boros landed on Saitama, the moon kick was the only one that wrapped him in energy. He was also wrapped in said energy prior to making knee contact with Saitama. On that note, idk. You provided the scans that said that's exactly what Boros did, wrap Saitama in energy. But I'm not saying the energy itself moved Saitama. I'm saying Saitama was literally a part of his body when he used the energy to perform that kick, which in turn wrapped him in energy.

That's not what I think. That's what Murata thinks.

He basically says Boros had consideration for Saitama's clothes, so he wrapped him in energy and kicked him to the moon. At speeds so fast, the 25km range for which objects can burn up would be insignificant (meteors burn at triple digit mach, nothing has been recorded at 6 digit mach). Yet he realizes he wrote himself into a hole since Saitama does not experience these effects when he jumps.

That whole response is illogical around the board. Doesn't matter too much, but still.

 

[Golden_Void]

When summarizing arguments like this, it's preferrable to just leave the arguments as is without including any of this commentary - as it comes off as very biased rather than an actual summary. It's easy for one side to downplay the other's arguments to achieve a desired result, which is not particularly healthy to have

I think it's valid to include both side's arguments, though I should've labeled it as such but it's too late now. I understand your perspective.

Anyway I'm going to sleep for the night, we can continue this later.

 

[CloverDragon03]

I think it's valid to include both side's arguments, though I should've labeled it as such but it's too late now. I understand your perspective.

Anyway I'm going to sleep for the night, we can continue this later.

I appreciate it. I do recognize my wording was iffy, and I should've fixed that, but I'm glad to still see a more ambivalent response like this. Frankly it means a lot with how things can get

That aside, we can pick this up tomorrow then.

 

[MrTayman616]

its not only the power of the kick that made saitama move to the moon at near speed light speed.
its the latent energy of boros. when boros kicked saitama, it wrap him in energy then fling him out nearly at the speed of light.

saitama is casually stopping sub light speed attack in front of boros yet boros is confident even after knowing it. also saying saitama only treated it as a joke because it was a rock doesnt mean much. because it would still make it that he sees it as a joke totally. including the speed. in the end, rocks that flying at sub light speed is a joke to saitama.

at the very least, i believe released boros and above should still have the speed scaling but there is the fact that armored boros has no feat or statement. im fine if only he's losing it. even if he was confident, not like he was thinking of having his greatest fight with his powers sealed. his confidence wouldnt come from that.

 

[Golden_Void]

Busy weekend, I'll probably be another day or two

 

[Shadow_x007x]

Bump

 

[DavidTPPM]

What's the current consensus on the proposals? I'm too lazy to read the whole thread but interested in where it's going

 

[Golden_Void]

What's the current consensus on the proposals? I'm too lazy to read the whole thread but interested in where it's going

Geryuganshoop is unreliable to use as a measuring stick for anyone's speed, and Boros's own statements in higher forms disagree with the current rating. Boros would safely scale with an "at least" rating above the S-Class heroes on the ground (Bang, Atomic Samurai, etc), and his first two keys where he's "possibly relativistic+" would reflect that.

The argument that "he just goes to a higher level of sub-relativistic speed" is copium and is not supported by anything outside of calculations.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Geryuganshoop is unreliable to use as a measuring stick for anyone's speed,

Agreed, the rating should also go from Tatsumakis profile imo

Boros would safely scale with an "at least" rating above the S-Class heroes on the ground (Bang, Atomic Samurai, etc), and his first two keys where he's "possibly relativistic+" would reflect that.

Well AS and Bang cap at MHS+ so scaling over those doesn't exactly help him.

 

[Shadow_x007x]

Geryuganshoop is unreliable to use as a measuring stick for anyone's speed

I agree with this.

and Boros's own statements in higher forms disagree with the current rating. Boros would safely scale with an "at least" rating above the S-Class heroes on the ground (Bang, Atomic Samurai, etc), and his first two keys where he's "possibly relativistic+" would reflect that.

I disagree with this. There is no evidence to suggest that Boros should scale above S-class on the ground.

My best bet would be to size him up in the second key above Carnage Kabuto or Gouketsu, since Saitama insists that Boros are strong but doesn't care about their strengths.

Well AS and Bang cap at MHS+ so scaling over those doesn't exactly help him.

AS and Bang are at least HH only.

 

[DavidTPPM]

AS and Bang are at least HH only.

Iirc AS has MHS+ combat speed or something

 

[Shadow_x007x]

Iirc AS has MHS+ combat speed or something

AS's MHS+ is his slash speed only.

 

[DavidTPPM]

AS's MHS+ is his slash speed only.

Yeah that's what I meant

 

[Golden_Void]

I disagree with this. There is no evidence to suggest that Boros should scale above S-class on the ground.

He should be above Melzagard who is above DSK and Puri Puri Prisoner.

AS and Bang are at least HH only.

Granted his speed would still be here.

 

[Shadow_x007x]

He should be above Melzagard who is above DSK and Puri Puri Prisoner.

Melzagard's speed doesn't scale with Puri Puri Prisoner. It's obvious that Puri Puri Prisoner is faster than him. In his current profile, Melzagard has Supersonic+ speed.

 

[Shadow_x007x]

Sorry, I seem to have forgotten the purpose of this thread. Could you give me a quick summary?

 

[Golden_Void]

Geryuganshoop is unreliable to use as a measuring stick for anyone's speed, and Boros's own statements in higher forms disagree with the current rating. Boros would safely scale with an "at least" rating above the S-Class heroes on the ground (Bang, Atomic Samurai, etc), and his first two keys where he's "possibly relativistic+" would reflect that.

Just re-read

 

[Livinmeme]

na trust me dude, boros is such an idiot that he saw someone blitz a projectile literally dozens thousands of times faster than him, and he still thought that he wasn't going to get blitzed in the span of 0.001 second

 

[Golden_Void]

bump

 

[Golden_Void]

bump.

Would need to see a more justified proposal to replace it, but your arguments against the current rating look valid.

At this point, it would be easiest to put Armored Boros at "at least High-Hypersonic, likely far higher". Just scaling above Melzargard, who could strike Bang, one-shot the Air King (who should be comparable to DSK and the Subterranean King) and (Pri-Pri-Prisoner, who got trashed by dehydrated DSK)

 

[Damage3245]

Okay.

 

[Golden_Void]

Okay.

I don't remember my account info for the wiki. Can you or another staff member make the edits?

Though, if we accept him scaling to high-hypersonic, then we will be taking out the supersonic in his first two keys, fyi.