SAO Upgrade CRT | Absorbing the Sun or something idk

[HammerStrikes219]

Although now I think about it, it kinda does suck we don’t have the raws at hand just on verifying the translation is good and accurate, but it will have to do.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

As for the opposition, the aggressiveness and word of mouth claims come off as unreasonable to me, whereas the OP and supporters of this CRT have an understandable and legible case with provided scans. Being kind as a "courtesy" or going into an arbitrary rant about """the community" doesn't make you look good either, it makes you look toxic and unreasonable.

From what I seeing, the opposition isn’t that aggressive though and not sure why that comes as off being overly aggressive. It is confrontational sure, but the sheer amount of text is overwhelming and isn’t overly aggressive.

 

[CurrySenpai]

Now I gone through this entire thread and knowing limited knowledge about SAO in general like the anime

I am more curious on “Solus losing all its light on the western horizon” as this doesn’t sound like sheer AP, more like buffing a weapon Kirito is using to achieve the outcome he is gunning for assuming I reading the scan the OP provided initially.

IIRC so this is in a video game world, I gonna works on what being stated in these scans and not interested into the initial proposal that Kirito was buffing his weapon to a large degree since SAO should have buffing abilities if memories serve me right

It's not sheer AP, that's the thing. The proposal is that his weapon receives High 6-A via the ability, since he does in fact use the absorbed light to defeat some Dark Minions while also healing others.

It only applies to his physicals in the Star King Key because that's just how scaling has worked. He spends 200 years in Underworld, constantly getting strong, and the peak in Moon Cradle / WoU is easily comparable to and out trumps his peak at the end of the Alicization Arc.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

It's not sheer AP, that's the thing. The proposal is that his weapon receives High 6-A via the ability, since he does in fact use the absorbed light to defeat some Dark Minions while also healing others.

It only applies to his Star King Key because that's just how scaling has worked. He spends 200 years in Underworld, constantly getting strong, and the peak in Moon Cradle / WoU is easily comparable to and out trumps his peak at the end of the Alicization Arc.

The only issues I seeing at hand then is interpretation of the text (plus translations as technically translation from one language to another language is finding the right meaning and right word) and narrations being questioned here as the opposition is mainly skeptical of the narration from what I see in this entire conversation so far.

Again, I not disagree nor agree in its entirety with the proposals as it seems logical based on scans being demonstrated. The only main concerns are the reliability of the narrator and narrative with the translations as well as I can understand the concerns regarding potential problems with translations.

 

[CurrySenpai]

The only issues I seeing at hand then is interpretation of the text (plus translations as technically translation from one language to another language is finding the right meaning and right word) and narrations being questioned here as the opposition is mainly skeptical of the narration from what I see in this entire conversation so far.

Again, I not disagree nor agree in its entirety with the proposals as it seems logical based on scans being demonstrated. The only main concerns are the reliability of the narrator and narrative and the translations as well as I can understand the concerns regarding potential problems with translations.

I don’t think anyone raised any issues with the translation? I don’t even see why it’d be an issue. For the longest time fan translations were used until it was decided Yen Press was just better and that it’s kinda redundant to grab raws when they guy who does it is relatively experienced. This just feels like a weird and random thing to bring up THIS far into the game.

 

[Quibster]

Yen Press are the translators according to the Scan/OP, and they're not exactly a niche/non-reputable distributor. They distribute works such as Bocchi the Rock!, Delicious In Dungeon, Konosuba, Goblin Slayer, and over a hundred other IP's for western readers.

What's the metric for reliability of a translated source here? It feels a little out-of-pocket to point out.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

I don’t think anyone raised any issues with the translation? I don’t even see why it’d be an issue. For the longest time fan translations were used until it was decided Yen Press was just better and that it’s kinda redundant to grab raws when they guy who does it is relatively experienced. This just feels like a weird and random thing to bring up THIS far into the game.

Again, I going off on what was brought up earlier from the opposition I believe which is from the other guy outside of DMCA. Even so, I not familiar with Yen Press’s matters as this is not within the scope of this thread anyway, but from what I recall, even professionals can make mistakes. Are they often? No, but it can happen.


Regardless, just put me on neutral

 

[Quibster]

Yen Press is co-owned by Kadokawa Corporation, a JP Media Conglomerate that is among the top 5 Publishers in Japan, just under Shueisha Incorporated.

I dont see the point in suggesting that the translator may have got this specific part of the novel wrong, when this leap in logic could be applied to anything else. It's too speculative.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

Yen Press is co-owned by Kadokawa Corporation, a JP Media Conglomerate that is among the top 5 Publishers in Japan, just under Shueisha Incorporated.

I dont see the point in suggesting that the translator may have got this specific part of the novel wrong, when this logic could be applied to anything else. It's too speculative.

I was saying that in the general sense for my reply to Curry. Ultimately, it is irrelevant outside of the skepticism of the narration and interpretation of the text from what I see so far.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

For your question, this wiki and forum doesn’t have any real established standard, but from what the metric should been is:

1. Show steps on how the translations is done. If done automatically via machine translation, then it can get thrown out since language (Speaking broadly) ,at the end of the day, is context based and Machine Translation don’t execute well on the specific context that likely got overlooked. Also it is AI so I don’t need to get into details about that thankfully

2. Have experience with any language you are familiar with and if any mistakes has occurred, then proofread if necessary as well as make it easily understandable to a different audience with a different language.


Dictionarys are useful though if you want to understand a different language, but that is what I think is what the metric should been about.

 

[Theglassman12]

The High 6-A rating looks fine I guess, not exactly sold on the opposition side.

 

[CurrySenpai]

Welp, I guess that’s it.

 

[DMUA]

There's plenty that hasn't been addressed, and the Staff are quite variable in how actually certain they are. I wouldn't make an upgrade thread off of

The High 6-A rating looks fine I guess, not exactly sold on the opposition side.

I don't mind the likely/possibly

And the only other VSBW staff that's responded is Clover, another calc group member just like me (and of course, I do not agree)

I'd like to be more in depth as I've been requested, that's been a far greater issue that I haven't sat down to truly tackle as it deserves. It shouldn't take more than 20 minutes.

 

[CurrySenpai]

And the only other VSBW staff that's responded is Clover, another calc group member just like me who doesn't agree.

Clover said he agreed though? But out of courtesy, I’ll wait for your response.

 

[DMUA]

I'd like to make a post addressing everything, as I feel this debate has had a lot of offhand notes and communication issues that are obscuring what the deal even is, and I want to bring it back to the feat itself, and address some things that got lost in the smoke. But first, the notes of aggression that I think are really causing things to go sour.

Aggression​

I'll say that Kaantaar could use toning it down- in particular, his mention of "this isn't going to be the most chill" should have been an indication that he needed to re-write some of his post, not just continue, but I can't see the innocence in what he's replying to. The supporters have delivered this particular gem-

Same here. I am more or less trying to find a reason to not beat the living snot out of these people Infront of me.

and after he misstepped, we get

You have once again COMPLETELY missed my point and made up some random misinterpreted claim I did not in the slightest elude to.

and

This is a very nicely cherry picked example

and most of all

If I say “I mean no offense by this” to a gay or trans person then immediately follow it up with calling them a slur I think that’d be offensive and aggressive?

Which was such a 0 to 100 that both I and Kaantaar thought he actually accidentally said a slur. It's honestly not very different from what Kaantaar believed he was doing- making a severe and overt response to something that irks them. I don't think either should be facilitated because of a perceived origin point to malice, it should just be cut away from the arguments and how they are considered.

A rephrasing​

The OP's proposition is that in the Moon Cradle, Kirito using the Night Sky Sword was described as absorbing all the light of Solus, and because Mechadragons were invented and interstellar travel was beginning around the time of the feat, so there would be a fully formed sun to absorb light from. I was initially confused, leading to the start of aforementioned communication issues, so I'll just restate what me and Kaantaar have emphasized without any of the chicanery.

I initially noted, and Kaantaar further supported that it's also compared to a Solar Eclipse- a phenomenon where the sun is blocked out by the moon and not allowed to fully shine on the earth. We found it strange that this was the comparison of the event if the sun's luminosity was fully absorbed, and I later pointed out that if that was truly the case, it would take 8 minutes for the light to return to the planet, but it comes back immediately after the fight.

This was addressed by the idea that the Underworlders would just will it into existence, which was already strange and unsupported, and I now notice a few other things:

This mainly supports it being Solus' entire luminosity because if it was just the light coming to the planet, Kirito would have had to be continuously absorbing light in order to make things dark, and that clearly isn't the case since he uses these limited light elements to kill the minons and heal Ronye and Tiese, while also just clearly not continuously absorbing Solus' light since he has to swing it down towards the minions, and it's not mentioned that he was still doing so, in fact the scene paints it as if he had already absorbed all its light at that point.

I don't think the light elements being limited is ever established, he just wipes them out immediately with overwhelming force. We know for a fact the Night Sky Sword can continuously absorb stuff in general as shown when he took in everyone's incarnation, so it's not as though he has to constantly re-activate the ability for it to work, and the narration only has the commentary that it should be impossible to control 10,000 elements simultaneously, indicating an issue of control comes up far sooner than an issue of supply.

I don’t see why this would be the case. It’s more reasonable to assume the light returned that fast because Kirito used the Light Elements that were from Solus up. These two things directly correlate with one another in this scene.

I gave this a "this makes no sense", but I should be more articulate as to why. If we're saying he unleashed High 6-A power and that just went back into the environment, the entire planet would have become as bright (or even brighter, given the lesser surface area) than the entirety of the sun's light (not even just the sun itself) combined. That's not even how elements work from my understanding, and the narrator themselves even mention that after concentration breaks, the elements either vanish or "burst". This isn't what described, rather that the daylight comes back in a normal fashion rather than becoming a global flashbang (or a flashbang at all, the PoV was uncomfortable but they weren't totally incapable of seeing what was happening by just forcing themselves towards it). This is far more in line with the sun just being allowed to shine again by the Night Sky Sword turning off, similar to a Solar Eclipse misaligning after a few moments.

Things get muddier when we try to bring up past precedent, leading to Kaantaar going on tangents about prior feats not discussed rather than the things established in their debunking. So, I'll point back to when I tried to clarify this point.

Yes, but things don't exist in a complete vacuum. We know that taking this statement completely literally causes contradictions. We know SAO has plenty of feats being stated overtly, whether in past translations or current ones, that also don't make sense taken entirely literally, which is why we've both compared and emphasized them despite not being directly connected to this given scenario. We know that SAO doesn't do omniscient narration, and our rules on statements make a very clear, simple statement: the reliability depends on the source. We know that narration for side stories like this can have incomplete information, such as how Sigurosig only sees a "a woman- a knight clad in armor", but the audience knows their name is Fanito.

The thing that was trying to be said was that Reki Kawahara's writing lends itself into genuine flowery language, exaggerations of what's actually happening to give a greater visual. This happens in prior feats and they're relevant in that sense- but I can understand how it felt it was overstepped into us trying to say that the entire context was relevant and the other side should be dismissed due to being wrong in the past. Of course, that particular sentiment is wrong, and I'd like to be explicit about that.

Conclusion​

Surprisingly, that's all I have to say. There's not a lot to this discussion, there are a lot of messages about nothing and some genuinely irrelevant talking points like the translation issues. I'd like the evaluation of the situation to not be skewed by Me and Kaantaar just being grumpy old men who hate big numbers, and rather us perceiving something as misinformation and wanting it to not define the pages.

 

[CurrySenpai]

Aggression​

I likely won’t be the one to directly address your concerns, I’d rather have Fuji do that since she’s much better at articulating things than me but I will be the first to apologize for my OWN aggressiveness towards Kaantantr, as well as the comparison I made. I could have made a better one but I was I hot off a fighting game tournament and emotions were very high (not in the bad way I actually got 4th and a medal) but I digress.

DMUA is a genuine friend of mine and to a lesser extent (as in Im not a friend just an acquaintance) I do hold respect for Kaantantr, so I apologize for my sudden snappiness and I’m willing to continue the conversation peacefully if he is to.

Also I have no idea what Success was saying but I’m gonna give him the benefit of the doubt and say it was unrelated to the users who disagreed and he had just offhandedly mentioned something happening to him personally

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

I think DMUA’s points make sense.

 

[DMUA]

Also I have no idea what Success was saying but I’m gonna give him the benefit of the doubt and say it was unrelated to the users who disagreed and he had just offhandedly mentioned something happening to him personally

I think a lot of VSBW members could afford to realize they can just not care about something at that particular moment, if they're in the middle of an unrelated stressful issue.
I've personally just not responded to stuff if I don't feel I'm up for it, and I want that to become commonplace.

 

[Agnaa]

Just from reading the OP, my view is:

• I disagree with the idea that it was the entirety of Solus' light output. From context, it seemed like it was referring to all the light hitting that area of the planet. That's just how people talk about stuff like that. I think the comparison to an eclipse actually supports this; eclipses on Earth only involve a spot across the planet's surface being darkened.
• I'm a bit unsure about the general applicability of this; it was explicitly not generating heat, and it seems to have killed monsters which, from that little context, read like they could very well be weak to light. Especially given how no notable effects on the environment were mentioned, aside from it hurting some people's eyes.

And so, I'd want it indexed as "{whatever tier that amount of light hitting an area the size of that forest is} with Light Manipulation", which within matches can be used to absorb that much light from the environment/opponent, and use it to hurt their eyes or dispel constructs made of darkness, or that are otherwise weak to light.

Note that these, especially the bit about applicability, could easily change with more context I'm not aware of.

 

[Quibster]

Which was such a 0 to 100 that both I and Kaantaar thought he actually accidentally said a slur. It's honestly not very different from what Kaantaar believed he was doing- making a severe and overt response to something that irks them. I don't think either should be facilitated because of a perceived origin point to malice, it should just be cut away from the arguments and how they are considered.

I'm pretty sure that comment was designed to make a point rather than an accusation.

Edit: Words are hard.

 

[HammerStrikes219]

I'm pretty sure that comment was designed to make a point rather than an accusation.

Edit: Words are hard.

However, one can mistakenly interpret that as a accusation. Beside, it is not impossible for it to been both which ideally shouldn’t been the case.



From a outsider perspective, it look like someone was getting accused during a heated debate which it did

 

[Quibster]

However, one can mistakenly interpret that as a accusation. Beside, it is not impossible for it to been both which ideally shouldn’t been the case.


From a outsider perspective, it look like someone was getting accused during a heated debate which it did

Your interpretation is as good as mine

 

[CurrySenpai]

I likely won’t be the one to directly address your concerns, I’d rather have Fuji do that since she’s much better at articulating things than me.

Never mind on that, I'm the OP of this thread, and I believe it's my responsibility to respond to this final argument and finish things off. This has gotten me to read a bit into the scene more, so I will be doing more of that, gathering scans, and hopefully responding before the day ends for me. If you could patiently wait for this, I'd be very grateful

I'd rather not stress out Fuji or other's more, so I'll handle the rest

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I will start this with recognition for the most trivial of the things I want to post: I think Kantaantr's posts are ill-phrased for friendly discussion and generally drips with unpleasantness at best. Play nice, please- I don't really give a shit if you preface your mean post by saying "heads up, I may be mean be warned!"; I don't think it warrants a rule violation but taking an aside every other sentence to talk about how stupid the other person's position is doesn't really assist the overall point, it's just souring the thread. However, while his post was the most concentrated source of rudeness, DMUA pointed out the others that are ill-willed- to an extent I expect better behavior from someone given credence as an expert on the verse, but chilling the hell out is advisable for all parties worked up over the thread.

Now, onto scaling matters. I have been asked by both sides to come here and give my opinion on a verse I don't like much and so I hope that this is appreciated and that someone writes poetry about how turbo cool that is for me to do. The poem should also appreciate the original introduction I wrote to this message which included a bit about my misfortune and damnation to be here- not that I actually am damned, I just like being dramatic.

Ahem.

The Actual Evaluation
We're doing in-message titles now, sick.

It should come as no great surprise that I tend to consider the conservative estimates as more realistic than the generous ones- a type of "innocent-until-proven-guilty" affair, in which much higher estimations need to prove to me that they are more likely. Even failing this, I think the arguments in this thread for these lower estimations are much more likely. If it is similar to a solar eclipse (that is to say, just blocking out the light of the sun), then obviously the OP's position cannot stand. If it is a matter of absorbing sunlight, then I still find myself agreeing with DMUA's position, which seems to me to more directly address in-universe pieces of context and give a more likely answer to questions on this feat.

I should also mention Kantantr's thing regarding the perspective here being from the main character, who is seeing this without really being able to comprehend what's going on. If this is true (and it seems to be, nobody seems to be arguing against it at least) then I would find it doubly irresponsible to regard this feat with such a great estimation as the OP does, given that the person talking about the feat in-universe does not speak from a position of authority.

Curry has said she wants to make another post on this and I suppose I will be obligated by infernal contract to speak on this again as a result, but this is my current opinion- I agree more with DMUA than I do with Curry (sorry Curry, again).

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I should also mention Kantantr's thing regarding the perspective here being from the main character, who is seeing this without really being able to comprehend what's going on. If this is true (and it seems to be, nobody seems to be arguing against it at least) then I would find it doubly irresponsible to regard this feat with such a great estimation as the OP does, given that the person talking about the feat in-universe does not speak from a position of authority.

The issue is that this is not something that can be proven, nor has it been by the opposition. All that's been brought up is that the narration in SAO has been vague before, so it obviously must be here. It boils down to little more than speculation; I wouldn't say the reliability of the narrator helps our case, but it also doesn't hurt it. It's something of a non-factor unless we can prove that this specific section of the novel was written from a specific perspective (and again, no evidence for this has been brought forth).

It should come as no great surprise that I tend to consider the conservative estimates as more realistic than the generous ones- a type of "innocent-until-proven-guilty" affair, in which much higher estimations need to prove to me that they are more likely. Even failing this, I think the arguments in this thread for these lower estimations are much more likely. If it is similar to a solar eclipse (that is to say, just blocking out the light of the sun), then obviously the OP's position cannot stand. If it is a matter of absorbing sunlight, then I still find myself agreeing with DMUA's position, which seems to me to more directly address in-universe pieces of context and give a more likely answer to questions on this feat.

The problem is that the feat is merely likened to an eclipse from the perspective of those on earth; We, the audience, know what's actually happening - that the light is being sucked up and weaponized by Kirito - but nobody else does until after the fact. I do not think a statement intended as a metaphor (as indicated by the use of "as though") should override the much more literal and detailed explanation we are given for the feat.

 

[CurrySenpai]

Okay, I'm out of my scrimmage, so I will be commenting things soon.

 

[Success0906]

and after he misstepped, we get

It wasn't directed at you. Sorry. I was talking about my classmates. I haven't replied to this thread since the first page and I likely won't. I am abandoning this account.

 

[CurrySenpai]

I initially noted, and Kaantaar further supported that it's also compared to a Solar Eclipse- a phenomenon where the sun is blocked out by the moon and not allowed to fully shine on the earth. We found it strange that this was the comparison of the event if the sun's luminosity was fully absorbed, and I later pointed out that if that was truly the case, it would take 8 minutes for the light to return to the planet, but it comes back immediately after the fight.

I'll start by addressing this. The reason why I used the term solar eclipse was because I lacked a better real world comparison to a celestial body covering the sun making the planet dark, let's look at the excerpt closely to further solidify my claims.

"Even Solus on the western horizon lost all its light, as though Lunaria had completely covered its passage."
The use of words that describe Solus losing all its light, in its entirety, are important. Lunaria is described as covering Solus completely. When a solar eclipse takes place, light is still allowed to peak out somewhat, this is a real thing, but the choice of wording here is direct, simple, and leaves little to no room for interpretation. It is said that Solus lost all its light, then followed up by describing it as if Lunaria had done so wholesale.

Even in the next sentence, Cruiga is taken aback by the arrival of another supernatural phenomenon, this one far surpassing the dismantling of the mansion. Keep in mind, the dismantling of the mansion was done so by Asuna and is a direct result of her abilities provided by the Stacia superaccount.
Quick Underworld history lesson, there are 4 superaccounts in canon, Asuna has the superaccount of Stacia, The Goddess of Creation. The main ability Stacia has is Terrain Control, allowing her to morph the lands to her liking at the expense of stressing out her own fluctlight (although this downside largely applies at the beginning when she is getting used to the ability). It is stated that Cruiga is even more shocked at what Kirito is doing, so much so it is greater in scope than what Asuna did with an actual admin account.

This very clearly paints that what Kirito is doing is not only extremely powerful, but the first bit makes it clear that there is no room for interpretation on its potency. Solus lost all its light, and it's likened to the moon completely covering it, this is why I came to the conclusion of it being Solus' total luminosity.

The next few bits are written by Fuji as she can describe it better, and I'm also TIIIIIIRED.

I later pointed out that if that was truly the case, it would take 8 minutes for the light to return to the planet, but it comes back immediately after the fight.

The light taking 8 minutes to return does not matter as much as you think it does. For starters, this discrepancy would exist regardless of the scale of the feat; Even if he absorbed only a fraction of a percent of Solus' light, it'd still take 8 minutes to return. This issue exists in reverse, too, where the light would obviously take some time to travel from Solus to Kirito as he's absorbing it, but the scene suggests that this absorption took place in a very short amount of time (shorter than 8 minutes, anyways). If you're insistent that this timeframe is such a massive issue, then you would need to reject your own previously suggested low end for the feat and argue that no light was absorbed at all (despite the fact that the text is very clear about Kirito absorbing at least some of Solus' light).That begs one more question: If no light was being absorbed from Solus, then how did this feat occur?

I gave this a "this makes no sense", but I should be more articulate as to why. If we're saying he unleashed High 6-A power and that just went back into the environment, the entire planet would have become as bright (or even brighter, given the lesser surface area) than the entirety of the sun's light (not even just the sun itself) combined. That's not even how elements work from my understanding, and the narrator themselves even mention that after concentration breaks, the elements either vanish or "burst". This isn't what described, rather that the daylight comes back in a normal fashion rather than becoming a global flashbang (or a flashbang at all, the PoV was uncomfortable but they weren't totally incapable of seeing what was happening by just forcing themselves towards it). This is far more in line with the sun just being allowed to shine again by the Night Sky Sword turning off, similar to a Solar Eclipse misaligning after a few moments.

This feels like it ignores what is actually written. For starters, the entire planet wouldn't be affected since much of that light would be dispersed into the atmosphere. Only a small fraction of it would actually be spread out across the earth's surface. Treating it as daylight returning to normal is also absurd; The characters in this scene cannot see anything but the light around them, and their immediate surroundings are just stark white. The light they're dealing with is overwhelmingly intense, far more so than the 'normal daylight' that you're suggesting, and is in fact more in line with the light of the sun (or, as you put it, a flashbang).

---

That seems to be all to address though, I'm going to eepy land

 

[DMUA]

The use of words that describe Solus losing all its light, in its entirety, are important. Lunaria is described as covering Solus completely. When a solar eclipse takes place, light is still allowed to peak out somewhat, this is a real thing, but the choice of wording here is direct, simple, and leaves little to no room for interpretation. It is said that Solus lost all its light, then followed up by describing it as if Lunaria had done so wholesale.

Then it just wouldn't be useful to describe it as Lunaria covering the sun because that wouldn't capture the scale correctly if that was truly what was happening. They could have just left the description as the world spontaneously going into darkness and the sun disappearing, or even a curtain falling over the sun itself, but they used a real phenomenon where it isn't a removal of light everywhere.

Even in the next sentence, Cruiga is taken aback by the arrival of another supernatural phenomenon, this one far surpassing the dismantling of the mansion. Keep in mind, the dismantling of the mansion was done so by Asuna and is a direct result of her abilities provided by the Stacia superaccount.

Of course, that's nowhere near Asuna's full potential with that ability. A building deconstructing pales in comparison to opening a ravine to halt an entire army in it's tracks, much less the world suddenly shifting to nightfall. This also implies that the night sky sword would out scale the Goddess' abilities, which entirely ruins the idea of said weapon scaling across the board and I don't think I want to deal with that headache.

The next few bits are written by Fuji as she can describe it better, and I'm also TIIIIIIRED.

... That makes the fact they liked this post give me some Weekly flashbacks, but that's dimensionally displaced from relevance

The light taking 8 minutes to return does not matter as much as you think it does. For starters, this discrepancy would exist regardless of the scale of the feat; Even if he absorbed only a fraction of a percent of Solus' light, it'd still take 8 minutes to return. This issue exists in reverse, too, where the light would obviously take some time to travel from Solus to Kirito as he's absorbing it, but the scene suggests that this absorption took place in a very short amount of time (shorter than 8 minutes, anyways). If you're insistent that this timeframe is such a massive issue, then you would need to reject your own previously suggested low end for the feat and argue that no light was absorbed at all (despite the fact that the text is very clear about Kirito absorbing at least some of Solus' light).That begs one more question: If no light was being absorbed from Solus, then how did this feat occur?

Not really. If he simply absorbed anything touching the surface of the planet as it was coming into contact, that'd still leave all the sunlight constantly pouring down, which would break through near immediately after the effect ends. That just doesn't occur if he absorbs the entire luminosity from the sun, stretching across an entire astronomical unit. And if he's doing the former, that's a 7-B feat, still negating the thread. I don't believe I implied that absolutely no light was absorbed, just far less than being projected (which isn't a high bar when the proposition is all of the light in the setting getting absorbed)

This feels like it ignores what is actually written. For starters, the entire planet wouldn't be affected since much of that light would be dispersed into the atmosphere. Only a small fraction of it would actually be spread out across the earth's surface. Treating it as daylight returning to normal is also absurd; The characters in this scene cannot see anything but the light around them, and their immediate surroundings are just stark white. The light they're dealing with is overwhelmingly intense, far more so than the 'normal daylight' that you're suggesting, and is in fact more in line with the light of the sun (or, as you put it, a flashbang).

I really need to emphasize that if this thread truly still aims for a High 6-A rating, that is the luminosity outputted by the entire sun. It wouldn't just be equatable to standing on the sun and staring directly downwards, the earth's smaller size would result in 11901.9607843137 times the brightness overall, and I genuinely don't have the words to describe besides the fact everyone on the planet who isn't in a totally isolated concrete bunker would be permanently blind. This doesn't happen, it's entirely local to the area and something that the PoV explicitly powers through by keeping her eyes open to see the miasma of the monsters get overwhelmed. You can argue that much is just her being more resilient than a normal person given she's a properly trained fighter, and that is acceptable, but there's no way something of nearly as absurd of a scale as the High 6-A rating implies would be kept to a single area.

 

[Xmark12]

...I'm seriously wondering if I should come out of my SAO VSBW retirement for this.

 

[CurrySenpai]

...I'm seriously wondering if I should come out of my SAO VSBW retirement for this.

CRT so good Mark unretired

 

[CurrySenpai]

Will hopefully respond soon, I need my coffee.

Would like to ask though (and hopefully this doesn't look like I'm just moving the goalpost or trying to save my hide) but for those who would rather have the lower potency and even DMUA how would you feel about 7-B possible High 6-A. It was brought up earlier by someone unrelated and I already said I was fine with that compromise and found it understandable, but I still think it wouldn't be a terrible course of action given both points me and the opposition have brought up.

Obviously, I want it to be a solid rating, but I don't like being in a deadlock where no one can agree on anything, and it's not like this is particularly divisive with people taking strong stances for either sides besides me and DMUA

 

[CurrySenpai]

The point Fuji was trying to make wasn’t that no light was absorbed, it was that no matter the potency of the absorption you still run into the issue of it taking 8 minutes for sunlight to reach the planet. If Ronye had said Solus had been dimmed a bit and then Solus immediately returned to its same level after the scene was done, that still has the issue of the light lost didn’t take 8 minutes to return which brings into question whether this feat happened in the first place, which it clearly did.

I’d also like to add this could easily be a case of how this particular Memory Release of the NSS works. In every other instance where we see Kirito use the absorbing ability, there is clear time spent absorbing these resources. Whether it be against PoH, Gabriel, or hell Volo. In this scene Kirito arrived, Cruiga orders his minions to attack, he raises the NSS towards the sun and the sun’s light is suddenly absorbed with it even being mentioned to be abrupt. This is a clear difference between every other instance we have seen with this particular function before, and the fact that it’s mentioned as the Memory Release, one of the stronger potency attacks of a divine weapon, makes it believable that this is just how strong it is. It got the light abruptly, it gave it back abruptly.

But even then it’s mentioned that the sky was darker and redder than before, whether that’s because time passed or because not all of it had returned that’s beyond me, but the latter is possible since some elements were still being used to trap Cruiga in a light cage thingy.

On the topic of the sun just exploding and blinding everyone, I don’t really see this as an anti-feat or making it inapplicable because we already have stuff like The Incarnation of a Radius making an 8-B level explosion that would have easily made the Ruby Palace crumble, Sheyta and Iskahn’s 8-C clash with largely fodder level fighters around who would easily get obliterated but still survive, and even in Accel World when Lotus and Yellow Radio fight, two of the highest level players who are easily Tier 5 the entire planet doesn’t just get torn apart with every clash. Reki often forgets the aftermath of attacks and actions and general potency of his characters.

Even more so, a lot of the time feats do not get the luxury of being explained or stated to have a specific potency deliberately, usually when Reki does this he’s being purposeful. We didn’t know how strong Sheyta and Iskahn’s clash was until the anime came out, a lot of Aincrad feats were guesswork until we got actual visuals of say the Geocrawler, even in Accel World, it’s mentioned Silver Crow flew into the clouds and split them, but it never describes it in a way that makes you think it would reach High 6-C. When Reki purposefully brings up that Solus lost all its light, he is being deliberate, both to paint the scene and to show us just how powerful this ability is. More often than not he could just go with “The sun had become too dark to see.” or his usually flowery fork, but he goes out of his way to say “The sun lost all its light" and gives an example to help paint it with 0 chicanery in play.
Edit: Just wanted to add this

Then it just wouldn't be useful to describe it as Lunaria covering the sun because that wouldn't capture the scale correctly if that was truly what was happening. They could have just left the description as the world spontaneously going into darkness and the sun disappearing, or even a curtain falling over the sun itself, but they used a real phenomenon where it isn't a removal of light everywhere.

I think you're missing the point here. Yes, they used the example of a solar eclipse taking place, but that doesn't matter because it is deliberately phrased as the Lunaria covered Solus completely. The statement that Solus lost all its light, paired with the comparison of the moon covering the sun entirely, is deliberate. It's not like "Solus lost all its light, as if Lunaria had begun to mask it." it is a direct statement of the feat followed by an even more direct real world example that is similar but phrased differently to show that the sword did in fact absorb ALL its light, with 0 contradictions being made.

 

[Dalesean027]

OP seems fine to me

 

[CurrySenpai]

Man, if Mark comes back this really is the Shibuya arc of SAO CRTS, all we need is for one of us to get temp banned, and we have the prison realm!

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Man, if Mark comes back this really is the Shibuya arc of SAO CRTS, all we need is for one of us to get temp banned, and we have the prison realm!

I volunteer (I can call someone a slur and I'll be back in a month)

 

[CurrySenpai]

I volunteer (I can call someone a slur and I'll be back in a month)

 

[CurrySenpai]

Added a small edit to my recent comment

 

[DMUA]

The point Fuji was trying to make wasn’t that no light was absorbed, it was that no matter the potency of the absorption you still run into the issue of it taking 8 minutes for sunlight to reach the planet. If Ronye had said Solus had been dimmed a bit and then Solus immediately returned to its same level after the scene was done, that still has the issue of the light lost didn’t take 8 minutes to return which brings into question whether this feat happened in the first place, which it clearly did.

I think this is a case where I should use a diagram for the purpose of demonstration.

Not really to scale, I don't have 149597900 pixels to spare for this to be truly accurate, but the the green orb represents the earth, and the yellow on the opposite represents the sun.

I am stating that the black curtain over the earth is more likely to reflect the actual scenario, as it has been established that the narration is limited and will describe what a character sees. If the sky turns to night because the light reaching the earth is absorbed, that's not visually distinguishable from removing the light from the sun itself. With that taken into account, each pixel represents 99731.9333333333 Kilometers. 99731.9333333333/300000 is 0.3324397778 seconds of delay between the light going from well above the karmen line to the ground level.

If every bit of light was absorbed from the earth all the way to the sun to consume it's luminosity, it would have to cross 149597900 kilometers in the process. This would take 498.7 seconds, 8.3 minutes. The light does not take this timeframe to come back, indicating that the former is more in line with the situation and thus raising questions on if the statement was a completely accurate description.

I’d also like to add this could easily be a case of how this particular Memory Release of the NSS works. In every other instance where we see Kirito use the absorbing ability, there is clear time spent absorbing these resources. Whether it be against PoH, Gabriel, or hell Volo. In this scene Kirito arrived, Cruiga orders his minions to attack, he raises the NSS towards the sun and the sun’s light is suddenly absorbed with it even being mentioned to be abrupt. This is a clear difference between every other instance we have seen with this particular function before, and the fact that it’s mentioned as the Memory Release, one of the stronger potency attacks of a divine weapon, makes it believable that this is just how strong it is. It got the light abruptly, it gave it back abruptly.

Nothing actually mentions it being particularly abrupt in comparison, just that things got darker somewhat quickly. That's not much different from the prior instances; instances, which mind you, primarily absorb the spatial resources of the area around it, not ones an entire astronomical unit away for the sake consuming all sunlight so he can vaporize some goblins.

On the topic of the sun just exploding and blinding everyone, I don’t really see this as an anti-feat or making it inapplicable because we already have stuff like The Incarnation of a Radius making an 8-B level explosion that would have easily made the Ruby Palace crumble, Sheyta and Iskahn’s 8-C clash with largely fodder level fighters around who would easily get obliterated but still survive, and even in Accel World when Lotus and Yellow Radio fight, two of the highest level players who are easily Tier 5 the entire planet doesn’t just get torn apart with every clash. Reki often forgets the aftermath of attacks and actions and general potency of his characters.

In order...

• It would have been an Immortal Object and thus impossible to destroy
• Inverse Square Law would bail them out by a longshot, just standing 3 meters away would reduce the energy they take by hundreds of times over (and the actual terrain in fact does get wrecked as a result of this)
• This is an entirely different series that happens to have the same author, but even if it did have bearing, if you tried to say they were Tier 5 because of a feat in that fight where the planet doesn't get destroyed, I would consider that a problem. That's what the issue here really comes down to; you're saying something happens, but details about the scene suggests that event indeed didn't occur entirely as described.

Even more so, a lot of the time feats do not get the luxury of being explained or stated to have a specific potency deliberately, usually when Reki does this he’s being purposeful. We didn’t know how strong Sheyta and Iskahn’s clash was until the anime came out, a lot of Aincrad feats were guesswork until we got actual visuals of say the Geocrawler, even in Accel World, it’s mentioned Silver Crow flew into the clouds and split them, but it never describes it in a way that makes you think it would reach High 6-C. When Reki purposefully brings up that Solus lost all its light, he is being deliberate, both to paint the scene and to show us just how powerful this ability is. More often than not he could just go with “The sun had become too dark to see.” or his usually flowery fork, but he goes out of his way to say “The sun lost all its light" and gives an example to help paint it with 0 chicanery in play.

Is "Giant flashes and explosions shook the world itself" not extremely direct? Reki doesn't really tip-toe around describing big feats regardless of context, he just doesn't always have that be completely literal and thus you won't in fact find them represented fully in the external media you mention. "The sun had become too dark" is simply way less punchy than "The sun lost it's light" in terms of actual writing, so he, the writer, went with that. He was trying to make a scene that could be easily visualized and enjoyed, not be crystal clear about Kirito actually being biggastrong.

I think you're missing the point here. Yes, they used the example of a solar eclipse taking place, but that doesn't matter because it is deliberately phrased as the Lunaria covered Solus completely. The statement that Solus lost all its light, paired with the comparison of the moon covering the sun entirely, is deliberate. It's not like "Solus lost all its light, as if Lunaria had begun to mask it." it is a direct statement of the feat followed by an even more direct real world example that is similar but phrased differently to show that the sword did in fact absorb ALL its light, with 0 contradictions being made.

Then there would be no point to bringing up the phenomenon to begin with if it didn't actually capture the scale. We've seen that demonstrated in this exact thread, with the umbrella and hand metaphors falling flat because equating a similar idea to something that doesn't actually align doesn't work.

 

[CurrySenpai]

Then there would be no point to bringing up the phenomenon to begin with if it didn't actually capture the scale. We've seen that demonstrated in this exact thread, with the umbrella and hand metaphors falling flat because equating a similar idea to something that doesn't actually align doesn't work.

I will quickly say to this, I think the way you're looking at it is wrong. I earlier said the best real world example I had was the solar eclipse, but even then in this scene they are not saying it's a solar eclipse, they're just saying it's as if Lunaria completely covered Solus. That's different to the umbrella and hand metaphor because you're right, those ideas don't align, mainly because the feat isn't covering the sky or just making it dark, the feat is absorbing the sun's luminosity, and the following statement is more of a descriptor/comparison making it different from those which were generalizations.