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Reinhard Heydrich 1-A Key Weakness Addition

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Monarch_Laciel

Monarch_Laciel

VS Battles
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The Argument

Reinhard's power in his 1-A form is so great that he damages himself when he attacks. This should be added as a weakness.

Exhibit A: Reinhard releases his power and summons the LDO. This release of power causes his "body, mind and immortal soul" to crumble.

Exhibit B: Reinhard throws his lance at Ren. The lance scorches his own soul as he attacks.

The Counter Argument
"This doesn't mean he hurts himself from his own power. It's talking about how him attacking Mercurius is also harming himself because he is Mercurius's Apoptosis"

Counter-Counter Argument
This here is what states that he can't outlive Mercurius due to being his Apoptosis. It states "Not only because his body couldn't withstand his own overwhelming prowess"

"Not only". As in, there are two reasons why he's hurting himself. The second reason is because he's attacking Merc, but that does not mean the first reason does not exist. There is a clear distinction between his sheer power harming himself, and him harming himself by attacking Mercurius. The two phenomenon are separate.

Also, Exhibit B is him attacking Re not Mercurius, and Ren blocks the attack and isn't even harmed by it. Despite this, Reinhard still has his soul scorched by his own attack. So the argument that he's only hurting himself because he's hurting Mercurius doesn't even apply there.

So, the addition to his page:

"Weaknesses: As a man who expresses his affection through the heat of battle and sheer destructive force, he refuses to use the Longinuslanze's effect unless he is truly irritated with how poor of a fight his foes are putting up or if he truly loves the battle he's received with them. | His power is restricted by the opening of the swastikas, with several of his powers, such as the undodgeable nature of the Longinuslanze Testament, being sealed until all eight swastikas are opened. | His own power is too great for him to withstand, harming his mind, body and soul with every use."
 
Well the first key i mean is there. Second key is reinhard with all swastikas open so no point in adding that. Third one was explained by alrfy and a few others iirc but exactly i forgot
 
The italicised bit is the addition.

His own power is too great for him to withstand, harming his mind, body and soul with every use."
 
So basically you 100% die of he uses it as a suicide attack

I agree, makes enough sense
 
No, it's not a suicide attack. It's just that he damages himself as well. You can liken it to Guts' berserker armour. His body can't tank the force he's putting out, but he doesn't just die once he attacks.
 
It's explicit that his body can't take his own power. Just means he's stronger than he is durable.
 
Monarch Laciel said:
No, it's not a suicide attack. It's just that he damages himself as well.
You can liken it to Guts' berserker armour. His body can't tank the force he's putting out, but he doesn't just die once he attacks.
Click to expand...
isn't this a really bad weakness? cuz let's say he uses every power he has (taikyoku) would that mean he can't hold his power for much longer?
 
Maxnumb231 said:
It doesn't make sense because it would kind of imply they true bodies?!?!?!?!
Click to expand...
You realise that these outerversal reality warping gods beyond all concepts attack each other by shooting each other with suns, black holes, and 1940s german weaponry right?

Sense is in short supply. But it's explicitly stated anyway.
 
That's not even what happens (Heck the scan you showed proved that he isn't being harmed because of his body but because of his Apoptosis nature)

Reinhard, as a Hadou God, has his own Law expanding, scrabbling against Ren's and Mercurius. They are effectively eating each other out with each release of their power.

And the scan you gave for him attacking Re literally instead states Serpent and it actually hit both Ren and Mercurius

Hadou Gods attacks are AoE in a sense, so he was hitting both Mercurius and Ren
 
Your first paragraph is countered by my counter argument. It says "not only", meaning there are two reasons for the self-harming. Not one. It does not say "the reason was not that his body couldn't withstand his own prowess". It says "not only because he couldn't withstand his own prowess".

Your second paragraph is unsubstatiated, as that phenomenon is never attributed to Reinhard damaging himself.

Your third paragraph is directly contradicted by the following image. Mercurius just says the attack is beautiful, and no further mention is made of him dodging, blocking, or being hit. Ren on the other hand, actually goes to parry the attack. The context of the scene also implies that it is ren being targeted, not the Snake. Ren attacks Reinhard, Reinhard fails to block. Reinhard is saved by Mercurius's supernova move, which hits Re. Reinhard then goes to "return the favour" by attacking Ren in return for Ren attacking him. Mercurius says it's a nice looking attack and nothing else. Ren actually blocks.

Your fourth paragraph is also unsubstatiated.
 
That is not what the scan shows. Reinhard's law was already activated, as he was already a Hadou God, and he was not damaging himself simply by becoming a Hadou God. What damaged him was him when he actually released his power upon beginning to fight Mercurius, starting with his "explosive release of power" that was harming his mind, body and immortal soul.

That is not AoE. That is super homing attacks. And Ren was the one being targeted by Reinhard's attack, not Mercurius.

Also, a translation would be nice, seeing as I don't speak Japanese.
 
Isn't that what am i arguing?? That Reinhard is harming himself by harming Mercurius?

The lance "pierced" the cosmos already shown it didn't affect only Ren but everything around him including Mercurius. Anything within their Law is a part of their being, part of their body.
 
When I said "actually attacking Mercurius", I was using it in a chronological sense rather than a causal sense. As in "Ren, Merc and Reinhard are all Hadou Gods emanating their laws over each other -> they have a conversation where Merc decides this isn't what he wants -> Reinhard begins the fight and releases his power -> Reinhard is hurt by his own power -> Reinhard attacks Merc"

I'm not saying that "by harming merc he's harming himself". I'm saying that "when he uses an attack, he harms himself as well"

I also don't actually need to disprove that Reinhard harming Merc means he harms himself. I know that is true. But the scans, especially the last one, make it clear that is not the only reason that he is harming himself. One is that he's harming Merc. The other is that his body can't stand his own prowess.
 
Counter counter
This says "not only". I've highlighted it.
This means there is more than one reason for Reihard hurting himself.

The bit about dying alongside Mercurius is given as a second reason, not the only reason.

Edit: I removed the agressive parts, and I apologise
 
Releasing his own power = Harming Mercurius. Because like i said Hadou actions are on a AoE scale (they can literally extinguish universes with a blink of their bodies)

The scan also backs up my argument. He isn't harming himself. Not only definition is basically something that is true, but it's not the whole truth.

In this case, indeed releasing his own power harmed him, that's true. But that's not because his body cannot withstand it, but because he had affected Mercurius. He's dying with Mercurius himself.
 
You saying that it is "not because his body cannot withstand it, but because he had affected Mercurius" is contradicted by the third scan I posted, which makes an explicit difference between Reinhard hurting himself because his body can't take his own strength, and because he's hurting his "host", and says it is both causing the effect.
 
No not really. While all until now the author was going on how it was harming him. It wasn't until later (the scan) that he showed the truth behind Reinhard being harmed by no one. His Law was eating Mercurius and harming him

Btw, why was Redgrave meme removed and Azzy? When both are irrelevant to the discussion?
 
Azzy actually stated something relevant that I could respond to. ie "Reinhard dies because he throws his spear", I could say that wasnt how it works. It did contribute something to the discussion, by clearing up that misconception on how the weakness works.

Redgrave's was just "not this shit again, now I'm running to the moon". It was completely unecessary for it to stay.
 
And "the truth" of why Reinhard was being harmed is explicitly both things. I want you to explain your thought process on how that third scam means that Reinhard is only hurting himself because he's attacking Mercurius.

Also, I'm going to bed now.
 
Basically, Killing Snake = Kill Youself (Reinhard) because Reinhard (his existence) is tied directly to Mercurius (Another Type of Reliant Immortality), and if Snake dies by its Apoptosis, Reinhard Dies.

I do not think is a weakness, but something already established between the Gods and their cancer, as opposed to Reinhard himself being harmed by himself.
 
@Mathew that was not my thought process at all. You are wrong. If that was true, I would have just removed every comment that disagrees with me. I see the comment is back anyway. Can't believe there is this much fuss over 12 words and a picture that contribute nothing to the discussion.

@Extreme I've already said; it is both. Proving that Reinhard hurts himself because he hurts Mercurius and is his Apoptosis does not disprove that he is hurting himself because his body can't take it.

@ALRF I'm on phone and limited data right now, but I'll respond when I'm on my computer and can open those links. But I'd just like to say that "flowery language" is not an excuse when something is made very explicit.
 
My flowery language post wasn't to the scans you gave though, it was just in generally, you would have to read carefully on how it is written to not fall in such mistakes (You could attribute flowery langue to the scan of him throwing his spear at Ren's though. It's 100% easy to see it as such)

I'm going to bed though, won't be able to reply again until i wake up
 
Alright, seen your scans.

Look. My first scan of him damaging himself by releasing his power. I accept that this showed him damaging himself by damaging the foreknowledge world matrix AKA Mercurius

My second scan of him damaging himself by throwing his spear, I also accept this is him damaging himself by piercing the cosmos AKA Mercurius.

Here is what I do not accept. That damaging Mercurius is the only reason he is hurting himself

My third scan states that "with each attack, Gold slipped deeper into the crevice of his own annihilation, but not only because his body couln't withstand his overwhelming prowess. It was far simpler than that. An absolute law dictating that a cancer cell could not outlive its host."

"Not only" are, as I have said before, the key words there. It doesn't say "Gold slipped deeper into the crevice of his own annihlation, but not because his body couldn't withstand his overwhelming prowess". That sentence does not contain the word "only", so the meaning changes. In this rewritten sentence, you would be correct in saying that he is not damaging himself because his body can't take it, he is damaging himself because a cancer cell can't outlive its host.

But that is not what the VN says. The VN says "but not only because his body couldn't withstand his overwhelming prowess"

This sentence makes it clear that yes, he is damaging himself because his body can't take his power, but "not only" that, he's also damaging himself because a cancer cell can't outlive its host.

That third scan is the only really important one here, because it clearly states what is going on. In order to disprove this revision, you cannot disprove this revision by saying "it's only because he's damaging Mercurius", no matter how much evidence you provide of it. Because I, and the scan accept and acknowledge that evidence, and that reason. But we both say that there is a second reason as well.

If you want to disprove this revision, you need to prove that third and most important scan is incorrect when it says that:

  • "reinhard's body being unable to take his overwhelming prowess is not the only reason he's damaging himself",
and really means:

  • "reinhard's body being unable to take his overwhelming prowess is not the reason he's damaging himself"
Have a good sleep, and I await your rebuttal
 
Agreed

  • Me
  • Gargoyle One
  • Archaon
  • Maxnumb
Disagreed

  • ALRF
  • Matthew Schroeder
  • Extreme123dz
Not Clear

  • Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot
  • Redgrave
  • Dannyphantom
  • HI3 or bust


As more people agree than disagree, it has been a week, and there has still been no futher rebuttal of my points, I will be adding this weakness in an hour
 
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