Regenerationnn Problem: Bypassing Mid-Godly Regenerationn

[Assaltwaffle]

In this thread a problem has come to my attention with Mid-Godly Regenerationn, either in definition or in application. To quickly define what Mid-Godly is, as per our Regenerationn page, is to be "able to regenerate even after every aspect of the mind, body, soul, and consciousness, are erased from existence."

There are two forms of Regenerationn higher than this, being High-Godly and True-Godly. High-Godly is just like Mid-Godly with the added boon of being able to survive your reality's destruction. True-Godly is being able to come back from erasure of a dimensionless source, AKA Erasure from a 1-A or higher.

So that means there should only be two ways to get around Mid-Godly: Destroy the reality the target is in or be above dimensions themselves, and thus be beyond bodies, souls, and normal existence in its entirety.

That was until I was told that "sufficiently powerful erasure can kill Mid-Godly" Regenerationn users. That does not make any sense. If you are destroyed completely and utterly, on every sphere, as The God Emperor of Mankind can do, Mid-Godly should still be able to bring the target back, since you cannot destroy more than "every aspect" without deleting the reality they were in or being beyond dimensions. This is explained on GEoM's page by being Power Nullification, but other characters, such as Reinhard Heydrich, were able to kill Methuselah, a user of Mid-Godly, without Nullifying Regenerationn.

This should not be possible given our current definition. No matter how potent the erasure, it is still limited to erasing "every aspect" of the target, and thus should not kill a Mid-Godly. For this to be possible, Mid-Godly would need to not be uniform. Are there levels of Mid-Godly Regenerationn? If there are, they shouldn't be called Mid-Godly. Being able to regenerate after you have your soul erased is not the same as being able to regenerate from being deleted from "every aspect."

As I said before, unless your reality is deleted or you are erased from a power beyond all dimensional existence, you should be able to regenerate no matter what if Mid-Godly truly lets you come back after "every aspect" of you is gone. Either you are completely gone or you're not. There needs to be definition change, the addition of Power Null to anyone who can kill a Mid-Godly without wiping their reality or being 1-A, or another level of Regenerationn.

TLDR: Mid-Godly should logically cover all levels of erasure bar reality deletion or 1-A deletion, but they currently don't. Either a new level of regen needs to be added, such as "Able to regenerate from having both body and soul erased," the ones who overcome Mid-Godly with erasure get power null, or a definition needs to change.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

In my opinion, Nonexistence Erasure should definitely bypass Mid-Godly Regenerationn, since you are basically erasing the nothingness that Mid-Godly regenerators regenerate from, thus erasing them beyond the scope they are capable of coming back from

but putting that aside, stating that Mid-Godly Regenerationn can bring back someone even if they are erased on a level that is literally infinite degrees of infinity above them is definitely a huge NLF, as you would be implying that a character can recover from erasure that is infinitely above them, and would contradict our current definition of High-Godly Regenerationn, which is recovering oneself even after a multiverse correspondent to their own dimensional level (or maybe even higher than their dimensionality, but those are likely rare cases) is destroyed

Also, yes... there are levels of Mid-Godly Regenerationn, which is... a very broad thing

They can either be recovery from having your body and soul destroyed to recovery after having your concept erased

 

[Schnee_One]

Mid Godly means regenerating from Nothing, but it does not account for Erasing from every sphere of existence including non-existence.

I frankly disagree with the change.

 

[ALRF]

Like i said, it is more of the potency of the erasure i believe

Best exemple would be Harumitsu Oosugi who used a weaker EE to try and end Nakiri Kuubou. So what he did was simple, make his EE stronger through a combination of his special ability which centers around sacrificing something important to him in return of destroying whatever he wants..Which did result in the dragon being erased.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

A big crux of the argument against this is potency, but that only strengthens my argument in reality. If there are levels of Mid-Godly regen, corresponding with levels of erasure, then it shouldn't ALL be Mid-Godly. There aren't levels of potency for all the other regens that matter. The only regen that seems to have this problem is Mid-Godly. Perhaps another level above it would be being able to regenerate from all erasure, regardless of potency, but still dies to reality deletion.

At the moment there seems to be a gap in regen.

 

[Schnee_One]

Quite frankly, I don't think it strengthens your argument, it's doing the opposite and leading to more confusion.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

Being able to regenerate from all erasure regardless of potency or dimensional scale, yet dying to your reality being destroyed / erased doesn't make much sense, especially if the reality is for example 4-D or higher, since the former would logically be far beyond the latter

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Then High-Godly needs a change. If High 1-B targeted deletion is superior to 4-D reality deletion (which makes sense), then High-Godly needs a change. Honestly why is the reality the target is in important? Almost seems like Reliant Immortality is leeching over into Regen.

 

[LordGinSama]

I agree with ALRF here, it seems it is more of the potency of the Erasure.

 

[Schnee_One]

Reliant immortality is regen.

In fact, regenerating from your concept Is considered Mid Godly

 

[Promestein]

There are different level of both Mid-Godly and High-Godly and thus varying levels of erasure. This has always been a thing. There's no need to further divide things, it'll only make it more and more confusing.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

> Honestly why is the reality the target is in important?

I think it is because it involves destroying the dimension you reside in (like... destroying the 4th Dimension to kill a 4-D being) but otherwise this... seems like a good point

 

[Assaltwaffle]

There are different level of both Mid-Godly and High-Godly. This has always been a thing. There's no need to further divide things, it'll only make it more and more confusing.

But there aren't levels of other regen. Why is Mid the exception? Why is High even a thing in its current state? Why is having your reality deleted worse than having absolutely every aspect of yourself (which includes your space-time existence in that reality) deleted?

 

[Schnee_One]

There ARE levels of other regen, you can have a higher degree of Mid Godly compared to someone else.

 

[Promestein]

There are, though.

There are varying levels of every regen. Regenerating from your brain as opposed to a single cell. Regenerating from your mind and soul or disembodied energy or just your gestalt consciousness. Regenerating from higher realms.

It's worse because everything is destroyed along with you. You lose your space-time existence and everything else in that reality.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Prom

>You lose your space-time existence and everything else in that reality

But why does that matter? Everything else in the reality but your own space-time is independent of you and doesn't make the regen any more potent.

 

[Schnee_One]

Yes it does.....

 

[Assaltwaffle]

But why does it? If your space-time existence is removed from the reality entirely, the reality itself no longer matters for your survival. If you are completely gone, outright, from that reality, the reliant immortality would be overridden, since nothing of you remains to grasp your reality and regen from it.

 

[Ultima_Reality]

To be honest, i don't see how recovery after having your reality destroyed makes Regenerationn any better, losing your space-time existence, your past, your future or your concepts is all covered by Mid-Godly Regenerationn

Unless it consisting on something along the lines of the dimension itself being erased, as opposed to the reality you are in being erased

 

[DontTalkDT]

Ok, first why is high-godly above mid-godly: If you regenerate your body after it was destroyed, where are you doing that? Usually in the place where it was erased.

But what if that place doesn't exist anymore? In that case you might be not able to regenerate, since there is no place for you to regenerate into.

In order to regenerate in such a case, you either need to be able to regenerate in a new different place or able to create a new place to regenerate into.

Additionally, if you regenerate from being reduced to nothing there has to be some mechanism outside of you that makes that happen, because it has to happen through some means and can not be part of you, given that it would otherwise be erased together with you.

Without further proof this mechanism, of whichever kind of nature it may be, is assumed to be rooted inside your reality, so that it is erased if the reality is erased.


To get to the original question of the thread: In general I agree that simply launching more powerful attacks wouldn't make a difference when it comes to overcoming mid-godly Regenerationn.

The only thing one could archieve through that is to destroy some additional aspect, that before could save itself from being destroyed due to higher "durability".

What one needs to kill a mid-godly being isn't a quantitatively more powerful attack, but an qualitatively more powerful one. Something like changing the laws of nature, destroying concepts, killing them before they got their ability, messing with the opponents ability directly (erasing the ability together with them) or just outright changing the laws of logic so that it works.

I might add that from a qualitative perspective there are different levels then: Some mid-godly characters can revive despite erased concept, others can't. Some can revive even if the laws of nature say they can't exist, others can't. Etc.


Now as it is in fiction you can do everything the way you want, because writers really don't have to care about any rules. Hence I wouldn't encourage giving out power nullification for characters that can just somehow kill a being with mid-godly Regenerationn.

On one hand, because power nullification makes it sound like they can make a character not regenerate a wound it has due to taking some minor damage and on the other hand, because we really don't know how it works (and the author quite possibly doesn't either).

So in such cases one should just write the fact that they somehow were able to on the profile and give a detailed explanation of what happened in the feat on the page (feats section or notable attacks/techniques section).

 

[VoidGoji]

The only question that I'll answer is about the levels.

Yes, there is levels of Mid-Godly. Some chars can return from conceptual erasure (The higher level), and othera can't (Lower level)

 

[Lightbuster30]

I personally dislike true godly. It's basically the exact same thing as High Godly, only you regenerate from beyond dimensional reality destruction....but you're still coming back from reality destruction. Basically it's a more potent version.