Regarding Resurrection in Battles

[Hat_mchat]

Then i guess it wasn't an issue at all.

 

[Lina_Shields]

Why though. It's a fight to the death. How do you achieve victory isn't relevant.

Anyway, I agree with the timeframe of one day

We can wait until the other staff members reply, although generally speaking in terms of combat, the fight is declared to be over if the opponent in question has been incapacitated/unconscious for a period of time, with no signs of them getting back into fighting shape.
A day is stretching it.

 

[EvilMegaCookie]

here's what i think
self revival / Regenerationn should only count if it either


1: works immediately

or

2: it's immediately obvious to the common person with no prior knowledge pertaining to that character that he/she is in the process of regenerating / reviving.


so if you kill a guy, absolutely nothing happens for an hour, then he comes back to life suddenly, IMO, that counts as a loss. if he decides to engage the other fighter again it'd be a rematch. the first fight is over.

basically too much time with complete inactivity from one of the fighters should constitute a loss.

This. Anything longer than an hour and the battle becomes pointless. Hell, even 30 minutes would be stretching it.

 

[Lina_Shields]

I think that EvilMegaCookie makes sense regarding this topic.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I also agree

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that I would personally be fine with this, but prefer if Kavpeny gets the time to reply first, given that I think that he wrote most of the versus rules.

 

[Newendigo]

In my opinion, remove resurection from a character (if takes to long) in a match would solve most of this issues.

 

[Lucafriz]

"I won by doing absolutely nothing."

So if your opponent kills you, and you resurrect later on and the opponent isn't there anymore, you win by default?

 

[Antvasima]

@Lucafriz That does not seem reasonable, no.

 

[Lucafriz]

Seems to be what the quote I quoted was implying

 

[Antvasima]

I meant that it is not reasonable to have that kind of policy.

 

[Newendigo]

So if your opponent kills you, and you resurrect later on and the opponent isn't there anymore, you win by default?

I think that he is refering that, if your opponent kills you (in a fair fight), then tecnically should be count as a victory since he already demostrade that he is superior to you so the debate of ┬┐who could win? would finished.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Except wearing an opponent down by constantly resurrecting and coming after them could also be a victory by attrition.

Obviously there'd need to be some limit. If the opponent can completely recover in the time it takes for the dead one to resurrect, they'd win every time.

I think the simplest thing to do is for the OP to state the win condition in fights with resurrecting characters.

 

[Antvasima]

That may be a good idea, yes.

 

[Newendigo]

Agree, i belive that it depents of the OP that allows a character his resurection or not.

 

[Lucafriz]

Well, I'm not opposed to a reduction in SBA regarding how long it takes for a character to resurrect and victory being being declared if the character can't revive in that time window. If anyone is really deadset on having a month as said time limit, then they can always specify it in battles featuring characrters with resurrection.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

The crux of this matter is if the resurrection process counts towards inactivity/incapacitation. That's what needs to be answered. As it stands, the SBA gives no clear cut answer. It's better to simply address it and adjust things (if needed) for this seeming loophole than throw it back at the OPs of threads.

All that does is streamline threads, it doesn't address the SBA itself and what many could call a contradiction. This is a matter that, if it doesn't get answered and defined, will just comeback up. Better to do the hard thinking now and get it done, then to keep having this topic come up down the line.

At least, that's how I look at it.

 

[Antvasima]

That is a good point.

 

[HimikoWerckmeister]

Guys, I think to make this simple I think we should assume that if BOTH parties have that ability then assume their ressurection abilities are moot.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

Guys, I think to make this simple I think we should assume that if BOTH parties have that ability then assume their ressurection abilities are moot.

The simplest way to handle that is to set a win condition. EX: The first to 'kill' the other once, wins.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

So yeah, we need to figure out if resurrection counts towards inactivity/incapacitation. If we can answer that, then we can proceed to deal with it.

If 'yes', then a slight adjustment to SBA is all that is needed and we don't have to worry about if a month is too long or not.

If 'no', then we need to figure out an apporiate amount of time a chararcter with resurrection should be given. Too much and we are favoring the resurrecting character. Not too mention, that giving large amounts time can bring in a lot of other variables that can potentially bog down threads and muddy arguements. Too little and we may be limiting certain characters and not allowing them to properly demonstrate their abilities.

We have to keep in mind that resurrection really means that a character doesn't have as severe consequences if they were to be defeated/die. Whether that actually factors into the fight itself is more of a case by case basis.

 

[Golden_Void]

SBA says killing is a victory, and knocking the person out for an hour is a win. It also says permanent incapacitation for a month is a win too, which doesn't necessarily mean death. If they're mutually exclusive then idk why this is a discussion, unless they're not, which I assume is the case since there's a convo on this. Then like the above said, SBA needs an adjustment. Just remove resurrection.

 

[Lina_Shields]

I just want to clarify: What is SBA again?

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

@Lina Standard Battle Assumptions.

 

[Lucafriz]

SBA says killing is a victory, and knocking the person out for an hour is a win. It also says permanent incapacitation for a month is a win too, which doesn't necessarily mean death. If they're mutually exclusive then idk why this is a discussion, unless they're not, which I assume is the case since there's a convo on this. Then like the above said, SBA needs an adjustment. Just remove resurrection.

Except removing resurrection from SBA unfairly skews things against chracters for whom resurrection is their schtick (and some characters might gain powers or become stronger upon resurrection). And it also puts the onus on people who make battles featuring such characters to define the parameters of victory conditions for that battle should resurrection be involved. That would naturally lead to inconsistency between battles (which may cause people to criticize the idea that characters may be overly disadvantaged due to the set-up of individual battles) since there would be no standard clause for victory where resurrection is involved. And if you want some element of consistency between battles, you ideally would codify it in SBA.

 

[Kavpeny]

To make matters simple:

Regarding the time-frame, the victory condition's acceptable time-frame need to be re-evaluated as a whole, which is being done here.

That narrows down the discussion to whether or not resurrection should be considered a form of incapacitation. In my opinion, yes, it should be. To have to resort to resurrection to continue a fight implies being unable to fight without being resurrected. "Being unable to fight" is pretty much the definitio of the term incapacitated.

In other words, if a character can resurrect within the permissible limit of incapacitation (currently one month, but is being re-evaluated at the moment), then it should not be considered a loss for them. Furthermore, if it is a 1 vs 1 fight, then the character should be able to resurrect by themselves, without any external help, so no reviving for Frieza by his minions to defeat Goku, like someone mentioned earlier jokingly.

If the character is unable to resurrect within the permissible time limit for incapacitation under Standard Battle Assumptions, then the character either loses, or else the OP must specify a different acceptable time period for incapacitation in the beginning of the thread.

Is that suggestion fine with everyone?

 

[Kavpeny]

@Antvasima: I did write almost all of the rules, but I did not write the Standard Battle Assumptions page. The page was created by DontTalk, I merely formatted it.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I think that seems reasonable.

 

[Golden_Void]

Edit: What's the stance on resurrection?

 

[Antvasima]

Please read Kavpeny's post.

 

[Golden_Void]

So if the process of resurrection = BFR then shouldn't this post be closed and linked to the other one?

 

[Antvasima]

Yes. I will do so.