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LOL!The real cal howard said:
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Regarding hax for 3D beings with higher-dimensional powers.
- Thread starter ShadowWarrior1999
- Start date
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Btw, I disagree with the "simple is always better" system.
Tier 1 as a whole is complicated. A lot. Doesn't mean we shouldn't have it.
Simple is not better. Accurate is better. And honestly, the criteria "You need to affect people on your level" isn't complicated. The reasoning behind it? Maybe. But the rule is so simple that even a child would understand it.
If you want to make arguments explaining why Y-D being affecting a human = Y-D being haxing another Y-D being, fine, let's discuss that. This is how we do things.
But i'd like if you avoided dismissing the arguments above with "you are overcomplicating things for the lols" because quite frankly that's very disrespectful towards the people making those arguments.
@Sera
I mean, I don't like this kind of topics either, but people ask questions like this one, and I kinda have to answer.
Tier 1 as a whole is complicated. A lot. Doesn't mean we shouldn't have it.
Simple is not better. Accurate is better. And honestly, the criteria "You need to affect people on your level" isn't complicated. The reasoning behind it? Maybe. But the rule is so simple that even a child would understand it.
If you want to make arguments explaining why Y-D being affecting a human = Y-D being haxing another Y-D being, fine, let's discuss that. This is how we do things.
But i'd like if you avoided dismissing the arguments above with "you are overcomplicating things for the lols" because quite frankly that's very disrespectful towards the people making those arguments.
@Sera
I mean, I don't like this kind of topics either, but people ask questions like this one, and I kinda have to answer.
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How is that disrespectful? If you're overcomplicating things, you are overcomplicating things. Doesn't matter if it's for the lulz or not. Also we didn't say anything about system. Nothing is complex about higher dimensions if explained simply enough. This isn't quantum physics. It's geometry. All of this arguing over hax? That is exactly the result of thinking too hard about this stuff. Especially when the arguments are only brought full circle because whoever argued on a versus thread because they don't agree. That's not the same thing as their actually being a problem that needs addressing.
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How saying "your argument is wrong" without bothering to come up with a counterargument is disrespectful? Really?
And this topic is literally "how hax and dimensional tiering interact". It pops up because it's part of the system, but isn't explained anywhere.
It was brought up because of Bill now, and so what? I had this exact debate in a thread regarding Madoka and Bolas a year and a half ago. It's not something new. It's something that comes up because people want to understand
And this topic is literally "how hax and dimensional tiering interact". It pops up because it's part of the system, but isn't explained anywhere.
It was brought up because of Bill now, and so what? I had this exact debate in a thread regarding Madoka and Bolas a year and a half ago. It's not something new. It's something that comes up because people want to understand
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The problem is that people want definitions and categories and types and numbers for everything to the point that it removes individual analysis and it just becomes a semantics duel.
It makes debates less about personal thought and ideas and more about chart-checking, which is boring and dull for everyone involved. The fun matchups are those that encourage creativity and ideas on the people. Not the ones which are just "Hax vs Hax for Hax sake"
Higher-Dimensions aren't complicated. And the wiki should be as simple as possible not to get tangled up on its own dictionary of rules.
It makes debates less about personal thought and ideas and more about chart-checking, which is boring and dull for everyone involved. The fun matchups are those that encourage creativity and ideas on the people. Not the ones which are just "Hax vs Hax for Hax sake"
Higher-Dimensions aren't complicated. And the wiki should be as simple as possible not to get tangled up on its own dictionary of rules.
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I really don't feel like arguing right now. Again, I only responded because Dragon asked me to. I'm just going to back out now, because I feel like I'll end up saying something harsh. If I offended you with anything I said, I'm sorry Kal :/
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Sera EX said:
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Also I mean, I'm neutral on this.
...As long as the people complaining it's the way it is can deal later with things like "Madoka insta erasing other 2-As as soon at the match starts in a single move" without coming back to complain again later, that is.
This is twice as true for any character with a 3-D key and a 4-D or higher one since at that point we would be basically saying their every hax can affect anything on their dimensional level even if best feat of said hax was performed back when they were 3-D, against some island level character or something.
Neutral is my position, but in this case Kaltias' stance seems to be more safe to me, honestly speaking. No feats, no scaling.
...As long as the people complaining it's the way it is can deal later with things like "Madoka insta erasing other 2-As as soon at the match starts in a single move" without coming back to complain again later, that is.
This is twice as true for any character with a 3-D key and a 4-D or higher one since at that point we would be basically saying their every hax can affect anything on their dimensional level even if best feat of said hax was performed back when they were 3-D, against some island level character or something.
Neutral is my position, but in this case Kaltias' stance seems to be more safe to me, honestly speaking. No feats, no scaling.
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@Sera
Don't worry, I'm not offended. If anything, sorry if I sounded aggressive. It wasn't my intention
@Fate
Pretty much what I meant yeah.
Granted Madoka does have some verse mechanics backing all her powers being 2-A + feats showing that + a fellow 2-A to beat up so the jump from 3-D to 4-D thing doesn't apply.Yes i'm a nitpicky perso
Don't worry, I'm not offended. If anything, sorry if I sounded aggressive. It wasn't my intention
@Fate
Pretty much what I meant yeah.
Granted Madoka does have some verse mechanics backing all her powers being 2-A + feats showing that + a fellow 2-A to beat up so the jump from 3-D to 4-D thing doesn't apply.
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@Kaltias I mean more something like the Madoka from back in 2016 when you weren't even staff and we came across this for the first time.
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To be fair on that, I don't think even with the Madoka of now people have been arguing that she insta-Yawgmoth's the 2-A opponent same way she did with the whole concept of witches.
But this would probs be derailing so I'll just say touché and let it be. -q
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To be fair on that, I don't think even with the Madoka of now people have been arguing that she insta-Yawgmoth's the 2-A opponent same way she did with the whole concept of witches.
But this would probs be derailing so I'll just say touché and let it be. -q
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Nah, no one does. It simply became actual useful stuff instead of "can incapacitate Mid-Godly for like 30 minutes maybe" level erasure.
I suppose she could do that to AoC level people but she doesn't usually fight them for fairly obvious reasons
Yeah, i'll drop this as well
I suppose she could do that to AoC level people but she doesn't usually fight them for fairly obvious reasons
Yeah, i'll drop this as well
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Bill has Higher-Dimensional Manipulation. Can't he just combine that with his other powers to affect 4Ds?
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Couldn't Bill have 5D HDM via this?: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1900300
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Already refuted. Plus Axolotl was downgraded anyway.
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So i suppose there should be types of HDM and existences like we do on black holes, lightning and elemental manip, void feats and such? Or perhaps a disclaimer about it. Tbh we can never get 'accurate' about these things bc there arent even real life theories about geometrical dimensions in correlation to pseudo-scientific paranormal stuff that defies the laws of physics (hax).
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