Records of VsBattles 4 of 13 - Rathalos vs Purple Worm

[Naito-desu]

• Both are High 8-C, Rathalos is in his first key, Worm is in second key
• Speeds are equalized
• SBA is assumed

Rathalos:

Purple Worm:

 

[Tllmbrg]

So since Purple Worm is a D&D creature it just resists the statues effect inducment and poison the creature has
Although with its attack method being burrowing underground and then getting from it I imagine it'd wait the creature while it's flying, not like it can force the Purple Worm out of the ground so

 

[EliminatorVenom]

To be fair... D&D resistance is less consistent than most types of resistance in the wiki. If Rathalos simply attempts to do his thing enough times, I don't doubt he'd eventually succeed.

And both fighters can get into a state that neither attacks the other. This is interesting to think about.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

To be fair... D&D resistance is less consistent than most types of resistance in the wiki. If Rathalos simply attempts to do his thing enough times, I don't doubt he'd eventually succeed.

That's not how we use it here. I assume you are talking about the dice roll. We take it as if they get a 10, an average roll. And since most have at least a +1 save check, they have at least one layer of resistance.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

That's not how we use it here. I assume you are talking about the dice roll. We take it as if they get a 10, an average roll. And since most have at least a +1 save check, they have at least one layer of resistance.

Eh, I don't necessarily agree with the way it's done, but since that's how it is, I accept it.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

We can't really just take the RNG game mechanic at face value any more than we could for other games. The ten indicates neutral RNG, an average if you will. The +1, +2, and so on indicate increasingly better resistances- what would affect a +1 might not affect a +2. It is the best way to take it, imo.

With that said, Rathalos has the advantage of flight and ranged attacks, which lend it a significant edge against the Worm, who is essentially just a melee fighter with a large body. The worm's poison is also likely useless, as Rathalos is resistant, or at the very least not as good as it might be. Due to the Worm's tremendous size and odd method of fighting, however, it may still stand a decent chance at winning via coming up from underground and surprise attacking the Rathalos.

The AP difference is minimal (2.14 tons vs 2.25 tons) so that isn't a noteworthy advantage one way or the other.

I'm inclined to favor Rathalos in this fight, to be honest. Being able to fly means it isn't able to be hit as easily, whereas the Rathalos can just nuke the ground given enough time. Environmental damage isn't exactly a strategy of the Rath, but it is not unlikely to happen.

Count me in favor of the dragon.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Doesn't the worm, you know, burrow?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Doesn't the worm, you know, burrow?

It does, I have accounted for that.

Due to the Worm's tremendous size and odd method of fighting, however, it may still stand a decent chance at winning via coming up from underground and surprise attacking the Rathalos.

I also accounted for the fact that Rathalos can effectively counter this, albeit in a clumsy manner.

whereas the Rathalos can just nuke the ground given enough time. Environmental damage isn't exactly a strategy of the Rath, but it is not unlikely to happen.

Monster Hunter creatures do indeed damage the terrain relatively often in their fights. Some of them even make it a strategy to attack the ground (namely creatures such as Diablos, granted), so I do think Rathalos has a (slightly) better argument here.

The only scale I could think of mattering is the unusual potency of Purple Worm Poison, which is a DC 19 saving throw (thus it requires nine layers of D&D's brand of poison resistance to negate it). However, poison has a unique scale in terms of how we scale it here on VS Battles- often, being a larger creature means requiring more poison to effectively kill. Assuming the worm's DC is meant for a human, I think it is unlikely to affect the Rathalos anywhere near as efficiently, on top of the fact that the Rathalos is already resistant to poison in-verse.

 

[Tllmbrg]

Unless the creature showed this tactic I feel like assuming it’ll keep nuking the ground while flying is kinda weird
Plus nothing really prevents the Worm from just burrowing even further down, while the thing in the air the Worm can’t really see it that well so I don’t think it’s too wild to assume the Worm would just go further down

As for the poison, ehhhhhh the only large creatures that actually have resistance to poison which you can argue is of that are Giants no?
But even then other large creatures don’t get resistance to that so I think it’s kinda weird to assume the DC is human centric
Wyverns have like DC 15 and their poison is said to disintegrate veins and arteries and Purple Worm’s poison is far more potent then that so I think the poison will have way greater effects then you’re giving credit to it

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Unless the creature showed this tactic I feel like assuming it’ll keep nuking the ground while flying is kinda weird
Plus nothing really prevents the Worm from just burrowing even further down, while the thing in the air the Worm can’t really see it that well so I don’t think it’s too wild to assume the Worm would just go further down

As for the poison, ehhhhhh the only large creatures that actually have resistance to poison which you can argue is of that are Giants no?
But even then other large creatures don’t get resistance to that so I think it’s kinda weird to assume the DC is human centric
Wyverns have like DC 15 and their poison is said to disintegrate veins and arteries and Purple Worm’s poison is far more potent then that so I think the poison will have way greater effects then you’re giving credit to it

I moreso meant it often happens by circumstance. Environmental destruction is a common occurrence in Monster Hunter, most often by monsters ramming bits of the terrain (be it by accident or otherwise). The Purple Worm also has to come to surface some time, after all- it is the only way it can fight. However, the Rathalos bears no such weakness- it may fly indefinitely, and attack freely from there.

Sure, but I'm speaking in a general sense. It is a fact for poison that you need larger doses to affect larger creatures. I think basing the DC off of a human in a game where (almost) every playable race is approximately human sized is absolutely fair. The poison may well prove lethal, sure, but it will not be as effective to something of larger size, even if D&D fails to accurately portray this. To turn it another way, even if, say, a Gargantuan beast had no resistance to poison whatsoever, we would not assume it would die to rat poison of equal dosage as is required to kill a typical rat, aye? Same deal here. We shouldn't assume it takes equal amounts of poison to kill Rath as it would take to kill a normal dude. It is a minor point but in such a middling match, a point I feel is very notable.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Isn't it like, not exactly in-character for Rathalos to just fly for eternity?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Isn't it like, not exactly in-character for Rathalos to just fly for eternity?

Have you played Monster Hunter lol

Rathalos is probably the monster known most for this strategy, it'll sometimes just stay up there indefinitely until flash pod'd.

 

[Tllmbrg]

I moreso meant it often happens by circumstance. Environmental destruction is a common occurrence in Monster Hunter, most often by monsters ramming bits of the terrain (be it by accident or otherwise). The Purple Worm also has to come to surface some time, after all- it is the only way it can fight. However, the Rathalos bears no such weakness- it may fly indefinitely, and attack freely from there.

I see

Sure, but I'm speaking in a general sense. It is a fact for poison that you need larger doses to affect larger creatures. I think basing the DC off of a human in a game where (almost) every playable race is approximately human sized is absolutely fair. The poison may well prove lethal, sure, but it will not be as effective to something of larger size, even if D&D fails to accurately portray this. To turn it another way, even if, say, a Gargantuan beast had no resistance to poison whatsoever, we would not assume it would die to rat poison of equal dosage as is required to kill a typical rat, aye? Same deal here. We shouldn't assume it takes equal amounts of poison to kill Rath as it would take to kill a normal dude. It is a minor point but in such a middling match, a point I feel is very notable.

I feel like the poison being tailored around humanoids doesn’t make sense from a lore perspective considering a lot of creatures with poison don’t hunt just humans, what we assume a Wyvern’s poison would be less effective on similarly sized creature like a horse?
As for the example sure, but even with accounting to size I feel like the Worm’s poison is potent enough to cause major damage considering it upscales a fair bit from fairly potent stuff
Heck even irl Cobras can kill elephants so

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I don't think I implied the purple worm's poison is an anti-human defense? I'm saying the game's mechanics are based around human or human-like sized players, thus the DC is likely representative of that. From a lore perspective this absolutely makes sense, given the worm would then be producing poison to kill much larger prey- hence a higher DC.

Enough poison can kill larger creatures, aye, but again, in real life, poison functions based on the size of the beast. More poison would be needed to kill that elephant that you'd need to kill a human. This is fact.

 

[Popted2]

bump

 

[Naito-desu]

The way I'm seeing this, this might actually be a win for Rathalos since Mr._Bambu's reasoning makes the most sense, so for the sake of moving the tournament forward, I'll give Team A the point.

 

[GoldenScorpions]

In the same way there's a chance for Rathalos to do environmental damage to defeat the worm, isn't there also the chance for the worm to leap out of underground to bite/grab Rathalos? The Worm seems to be larger than Rathalos, so it should be possible.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Possible, not as likely. As mentioned on their page, they possess Tremorsense- a boon if they were fighting anything on land, less so against enemies in the air. When underground, the worm is effectively blind against the Rathalos, whereas Rathalos should reasonably be able to follow where the colossal thing moves from its eye in the sky. The chance of the worm snatching a creature out of the air is not 0 percent, but it is not high, either.