Re:Zero Volume 17 Updates

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Ability Additions

Natsuki Subaru

Stealth Mastery:

“—Don’t cry, don’t wail, and don’t make a fuss. You truly are a good child. A strong child who protected someone precious to you. Surely your family, and even your younger brothers and sisters you have never set eyes upon, will always think of you with pride.”

He could hear a sinister voice.

Those words were undoubtedly directed at the sobbing child. They sounded like both a blessing and a curse overflowing with resentment, an intense mix of love and hate.

This was twisted. That one utterance was enough for Subaru to tell that the speaker did not possess a sound mind.

“”

They were above him. The moment he knew that for certain, Subaru let out a heavy breath, then went still.

Putting a hand over his racing heart, Subaru stepped onto the spiral stairs. Fortunately, walking silently was one of the skills that his mentor, Clind, had instilled in him over this past year. Leading with his heels before slowly shifting his body weight forward, Subaru inched toward the top of the tower with stealthy steps.-Volume 17, Chapter 1

Felix Argyle

Pain Manipulation:

Gradually, his leg was enveloped in the faint light and heat coming from Ferris’s hand. Bit by bit, the stabbing pain was drawn out, and soon, it felt better than ever.

“Hey, are you serious…?! If you had such convenient magic all along, don’t be stingy and just use it sooner! Yes, yes, yes! I can move! I can…”

With the pain completely gone, Subaru emphatically stomped on the floor several times. After that, he slapped his leg where the wound had been. When he did so, he felt something wet on his palm. He saw that it had become deep red.

His right leg’s wound had split open and was bleeding with a fair bit of force.

“Whoa, whoa, whoa, it’s not healed?!”

“I never said I healed it. I only asked if you’d regret losing the leg. All I did was remove your sense of pain. If you try hard enough, you should even be able to run around.”

Subaru was stunned by how much he was bleeding as Ferris tied a fresh bandage over the wound. Just like he had explained, his leg didn’t hurt at all.

It was painfully obvious that this rather unnatural state did mean he could push it to some extent-Volume 17, Chapter 5

Emilia

Martial Arts:

Terya! Soya! Soooi!”

Raising shouts that, as usual, somehow came off as silly, Emilia looked like she was a raging gale as she hounded Sirius with ruthless ice attacks.

“Eeeiiiyah!”

Spinning her body, Emilia danced as she closed in with twin swords of ice. Sirius swung burning golden chains about, shouting insults as she intercepted the blades, only for Emilia to crouch down as she spawned a new spear of ice, which she immediately used to swipe at Sirius’s chest.

With a painful cry, the force and impact hurled Sirius across the paving stones, leaving her rolling to a stop on the ground.

—Emilia was making full use of her vast mana capacity, launching high-speed combo attacks, fully intending to destroy her ice weapons in the process.

When she used the martial art that Subaru had dubbed “Icebrand Arts,” the fleeting nature of shattering ice engendered such phantasmal beauty, it was like watching the dance of a fairy.

The remnants of ice that were smashed during the battle danced and scattered as glittering mana set the stage for the pair. Emilia and Sirius—fire and ice—employed contrasting weapons as they continued to pursue their deadly duel.-Volume 17, Chapter 2

Garfiel Tinsel
Martial Arts:

Garfiel had rushed out of the Water Raiment that evening because of the lingering effects of his interaction with Reinhard the Sword Saint.

The current Sword Saint was known as the strongest not only in the Kingdom of Lugunica, but in all four of the great nations.

Not only had Garfiel heard the run-of-the-mill rumors, but he’d also heard about the man directly from Subaru, who had met the living legend. That was why Garfiel had been longing for a chance to meet him in person someday.

He’d firmly believed that this was a necessary rite of passage for him to become the strongest.

To Garfiel, being called the strongest held a special meaning.

He was sure that anyone who was born a man must have dreamed of being the strongest at least once. And everyone who had that dream forgot about it at some point over the course of a long life, yearning for that which they had abandoned. Garfiel did not want to forget that dream.

That title was an absolute necessity for the cowardly Garfiel to protect the things that were most important to him. With that thought in mind, he chased after it without rest.

That was why the fact that he had subconsciously backed down the instant he was face-to-face with the strongest was currently driving him to despair.

He’d lived for a scant fifteen years, yet Garfiel had spent the majority of his life in training. He poured all his effort into mastering the martial arts, proving he could uphold his oath to protect what was precious to him with his own two hands.

The instant he yielded ground in the face of real strength, it felt like he had betrayed his oath.-Volume 17, Chapter 4

Capella
Regeneration (Mid): The Regeneration page has been updated, regeneration from just a head is now just mid, so Capella should be downgraded.


Sirius
Soul Manipulation: Her authority is stated to work on the level of souls themselves

“Beako! Is Shamak ready yet?!”

Facing a frothing mob to the front, Subaru called out to Beatrice. However, the girl who was the linchpin of their plan ruefully bit her lip at the sight of the throng.

“…I’ve made a mistake.”

“What?”

“This blasphemy is fundamentally different from Nekt! This is closer to a curse or a hex than any proper magic. I suppose you could call it manipulation of souls themselves! This is not something a mere Shamak can deal with!”

Beatrice’s voice trembled with anger and distress. Hearing that, Subaru gritted his teeth.

He didn’t understand the principles at work in detail, but it was enough to know that Beatrice had judged that Operation Shamak could not be salvaged.

And the fact that the people in the square were being consumed by a tremendous wave of emotion far beyond the norm meant that—Volume 17, Chapter 2

Consequently Reinhard, Felt and Priscilla who resist Sirius authority should get Resistance to Soul Manipulation.

Julius

Paralysis Inducement:

However, before those two varieties of wicked blades could reach him—

“Even if they have fended off Lady Crusch’s sword blows, there is no escaping the rainbow’s yoke!”

—three different, dazzling colors circled around the Witch Cultists’ heads, summoning a cylindrically shaped aurora to seal the enemy’s movements.

Of the six greater spirits serving Julius, three acted in unison to catch the cultists. The cylinder of light must have had incredible restraining power, for the Witch Cultists went down on their knees from incredible pressure upon them.-Volume 17, Chapter 5

Roi Alphard

Acrobatics:

Don’t push yourself too much, spirit mage!!”

“Formally, I am a Spirit Knight. I have heard rumors that you are a gourmet, but will you grant my lovely buds a warm reception?”

“Oh, I’ll give ’em a real passionate welcome! I’ll rip ’em apart like the annoying pests they are!!”

As the approaching aurora seared his vision, Alphard brimmed with slavish appetite. To seal off his enemy’s avenues of escape, Julius pursued Gluttony with seemingly endless sword strikes from every angle.

Subaru would have liked to support him without a moment’s delay, but Alphard’s almost-feral movements, which had him darting all over the roof, prevented Julius from landing a clean hit. He had to do something with Gluttony—with Alphard right there—Volume 17, Chapter 5

City Block level Upgrade to Mid Tiers

It's been a long time so i don't even remember why we didn't scale people to the whale anymore. Lets put that aside for a moment, multiple characters like Emilia and Rem have magical abilities calced at 8-B. You could say this is magic and shouldn't scale to them physically, except characters comparable to them, who they can trade blows with, like Sirius have tanked those attacks

“—It reeks.”

He heard a single word trickle out in a muted voice, like someone was casting a curse.

It was a vicious word that seemed to resent all existence.

“It reeks. It reeks. It reeks. It reeks. It reeks. It reeks. It reeks. Itreeksreeksreeksreeksreeksreeksreeksreeksreeksreeksreeksreeksreeksreeksreeksreeksreeksreeksreeksreeksreeksreeksreeksreeksreeksreeksreeksreeksreeksreeksreeksreeksreeksreeks! It reeks! It reeks, it reeks, it reeks!!!”

A moment later, cracks ran along the icicle that had slammed into the upper portions of the time tower and impaled itself in the wall. In the span of a single breath, new fissures ran along the entirety of the mass of ice; an instant later, the icicle shattered into glimmering fragments.

Standing among that dazzling diamond dust, which scattered under the rays of the sun, a single eccentric stood.

She was not unscathed. Half of her white bandages were soaked with blood, and the tower’s white wall was marred by the ichor dripping from her dangling left arm. As she stepped clear of the fallen rubble, her gait seemed unsteady.

However, the insanity and ferocious emotions residing in the madwoman’s eye was nothing like what Subaru had known until then.

“It reeks…horribly… The stench of a woman. The filthy, abominable, awful stench of the half-demon that stole my precious from me. Even though you are not my precious, your fetid odor bears a remarkable resemblance. Aaaah, how dreadful!!”

On the scant remains of the tower’s top floor, Sirius clawed at her bloody bandages. He’d never seen her spit blood and send spittle flying as she shouted in pure hatred.-Volume 17, Chapter 2

Now i know we had some heat/freezing revision which made it so we now list tanking heat/ice separate from character's normal stats, but lets back to the White Whale, it has multiple 8-B durability feats, now if anyone has watched the White Whale Subjugation ie this, everyone relevant has physically harmed it, Crush, Rem, Wilhelm etc.

In short everyone should be upgraded 8-B for these multiple reasons.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

Did you really link an amv for the White Whale fight?

Over all everything looks good

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

I mean it shows my point, didn't need to search up an entire episode, just to show characters harming the Whale.

If anybody really cares for that though, just watch episode 20 of season 1.

 

[Worthless]

Agree.

 

[Worthless]

Buhp

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

bump

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Bump.

 

[Nabil1234]

Seem reasonable. Bump

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Bump.

 

[Nabil1234]

Maybe want so add some more. Like the vid you link showed in 2:23 about how 2/3 of the whale mist clash evenly with Crusch's one blow hundreds fella(okay maybe almost overpowered her). Just adding maybe the white whale tier also could be upgraded.

Btw bump

 

[Bernkastelll]

Now i know we had some heat/freezing revision which made it so we now list tanking heat/ice separate from character's normal stats, but lets back to the White Whale, it has multiple 8-B durability feats, now if anyone has watched the White Whale Subjugation ie this, everyone relevant has physically harmed it, Crush, Rem, Wilhelm etc.

In short everyone should be upgraded 8-B for these multiple reasons.

hmm, yeah, but, wasnt it just some superficial skin damage?

 

[Nabil1234]

hmm, yeah, but, wasnt it just some superficial skin damage?

If you look carefully you could see they also cut of a big piece of meat(the fin) and didnt you see how Crusch one blow hundreds fella caused the whale to do yoga and knock the whale? And also Wilhelm almost or had cut the whale head off.

 

[Nabil1234]

If you look carefully you could see they also cut of a big piece of meat(the fin) and didnt you see how Crusch one blow hundreds fella caused the whale to do yoga and knock the whale? And also Wilhelm are using a normal sword meaning it couldt make a deep cut to those creature.

At 3:40 if you want the view about wilhelm

 

[Random-Helper323]

All of this seems pretty solid to me, a person who has only seen one and a bit seasons of the anime and read a few pages here and there of the light novel. Wasn't there some revision about freezing feats a while back though? Obviously scaling to physicals is a common issue which is answered by The OP, but wasn't there some question about using freezing feats at all or at least how to gauge them? How did all that work out?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Never went anywhere as far as i know, all i know is that we did have some sort of heat revision which made it so you can't scale feats which involved something being vaporized to the character's normal stats, not even durability, that's just listed as heat resistance.

I know this cause i was trying to upgrade Sekien No Inganock characters to Low 7-C off a heat feat but only got accepted as heat resistance.

 

[Random-Helper323]

That actually does make sense. Fiction frequently treats heat and blades as a way to damage something that would in theory be way stronger than that. There's also real life examples like how people once tried making armour for battleships out of aluminium with the idea that the weight difference was larger than the strength difference resulting in lighter armour with similar strength. Problem was that unlike steel and iron, aluminium burns, making the idea not viable.

Anyway, regarding the ice and freezing feats, I don't think they should be disregarded, but I do remember thinking some of the calculations involving measuring temperature drops and freezing air had results that went too high. Multi city block level for making a block of ice the size of an SUV seems a bit much to me. I know it's scientifically correct, assuming it is indeed freezing air and not using a different method, but it tends to result in oddly large feats. I guess on that alone I might ask how solid Rem's icicle making feat is. Leaving aside that she also launched it and used it as a weapon, and it isn't much greater than her stomping feat (which was performed after she'd been fighting for hours and she admitted she could barely move after waking afterwards) making it reasonably consistent.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Well that's more an issue with how exactly we treat freezing feats, which as i said that topic has gone nowehere as far as i know. Until then, this revision can proceed.

Speaking of Rem's feat, just remembered i have to update it from Building level to Large Building level on the verse page.

Also whenever this revision is applied, there is another consistent class 5 lifting strength from Garfiel, didn't bring it up in the op, cause it changes nothing, but Garfiel can lift like several small boats or something like that, doing the math a while back, came out to over 1000kg.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Understood. Apologies for the slight derailment. Yeah, these additions seem solid. Supported.

 

[Nabil1234]

Well said bump.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

Well that's more an issue with how exactly we treat freezing feats, which as i said that topic has gone nowehere as far as i know. Until then, this revision can proceed.

Speaking of Rem's feat, just remembered i have to update it from Building level to Large Building level on the verse page.

Also whenever this revision is applied, there is another consistent class 5 lifting strength from Garfiel, didn't bring it up in the op, cause it changes nothing, but Garfiel can lift like several small boats or something like that, doing the math a while back, came out to over 1000kg.

On that note why is everyone currently 8-C when the only calc I’m aware of is High 8-C? I know they’re likely getting upgraded anyways but it’s weird.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Direct statements of Garfield being able to destroy buildings and the Rem calc was building level before.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

So are they going to scale from the magic feats or the whale? I mostly ask for the purpose of back scaling. Base Rem is 1/2 and Memory Loss Crusch is 1/6
Magic
Rem Base: 20.24 tons, 8-B
ML Crusch: 6.74783 tons, High 8-C(+?)
Whale
Rem Base: 13.83 tons, 8-B
ML Crusch: 4.61 tons, High 8-C

 

[TheRustyOne]

Normally I'd bring up the question of surface area, a blade doing damage against another person takes less energy than a punch. And in this case, the whale is far bigger than just a human to human. So it'd be very easy to cut the whale, vs harming it with blunt force attacks.

However, I've only seen the anime and they did much more than cut the whale. Didn't Wilhelm actually cut off one of the things fins or something? Crusch almost cut the thing in half at one point, not sure how it is portrayed in the novel, but I think that type of damage outweighs any surface area argument.

And those siblings also injured it with their scream attack right? And of course Rem and Emilia's 8-B freezing feat helps support the rating. I don't fully remember, there could be more instances of the whale being damaged by non blade attacks as well.

So these changes seem fine to me at the moment. I'm also curious on what value they'll scale to.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

However, I've only seen the anime and they did much more than cut the whale. Didn't Wilhelm actually cut off one of the things fins or something? Crusch almost cut the thing in half at one point, not sure how it is portrayed in the novel, but I think that type of damage outweighs any surface area argument.

Wilhelm cut out one of the thing's eyes for what that's worth

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Wilhelm killed the whale, making a sizable cut/shockwave or something, he did also cut it's fin, and Crush did cut the entire whale. Would have to recheck the novels, will do that after these Arifureta edits.

As for values, if using magic is legit, Emilia has a 40 ton feat.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Does the magic scale to physicals? I'm trying to remember any instance of a character taking a magic attack and still fighting physically. Rem is stronger than Ram who can still use magic, and Rem usually fights physically, so it wouldn't make much sense for Rem's strikes to be weaker than Ram's magic.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Here is what i found:

Crusch cuts Whale

Subaru, sensing baptism by destructive sound, braced himself against the land dragon he was riding.

And above their heads—

“To turn away, you must have greatly underestimated me—!!”

A moment after the valiant heroine’s voice, the White Whale’s head was shallowly cut by a single, horizontal slice. The invisible slash, grazing the solid, stone-like hide, drew blood from the White Whale’s enormous frame once more.

When Subaru looked back toward the source of the attack, he saw a white land dragon running after him at the front of the vanguard—and Crusch, standing tall, with her arm out after following through the swing. But in her hand…

“She’s not holding anything…?!”

“A formless sword that ignores range—Lady Crusch’s famous swordsmanship is able to fell a hundred men in a single blow.”-Volume 7, Chapter 3

Ricardo cuts several of its teeth with 1 swing

Upon landing, the land dragon instantly broke into a run. The White Whale gave into anger and chased after the elusive Sword Devil.

“Hey, don’t look away, moron! Yer facin’ the lot of us, too!!”

The single swing of the huge cleaver struck the White Whale squarely on the jaw with enough force to knock out several of the White Whale’s enormous teeth, making a dull sound as yellow molars were sent flying.-Volume 7, Chapter 3

Basically says here that those fodder we see stabbing the whale didn't do much, only ppl on Wilhelm's level actual do some decent damage

“The altitude…ain’t dropping.”

Looking up, he saw the White Whale calmly remaining in the sky.

It was not up so high that the cavalry could not leap up to it, but it would be very difficult for men to challenge it on foot. More importantly, without the demon beast falling to the ground, they could not shift to the next phase of the operation.

Ricardo pulled alongside, carrying his huge cleaver as blood spatter drenched the fur on his face.

“We played all our good cards right at the start. That it didn’t go down means that thing was just tougher, huh.” He snorted out of his canine snout, his pointy ears twitching as he said, “Feels like we scored a point, but it ain’t easy breakin’ through that thick hide underneath. ’Cept for a weapon like mine with brute force, or Mr. Wil’s skills, it’s a drop in the ol’ bucket.”-Volume 7, Chapter 3

Wilhem cuts out the Whale's eye

With an energetic outburst, Wilhelm drew his sword in a line all the way to the White Whale’s head, maintaining his momentum as his old bones leaped off from the tip of the enormous body. As the old man twisted and inverted in midair—

“There ya go!”

Ricardo’s cleaver matched Wilhelm’s timing, rising up to greet him from below. Wilhelm descended, aiming for the cleaver as it rose toward its zenith, the soles of the Sword Devil’s feet meeting the cleaver’s blunt, impending blow.

“Shii—!!”

Ricardo’s brawn added to Wilhelm’s leaping ability, sending the Sword Devil flying like a bullet.

Shot out, Wilhelm’s dual blades whirled around, savagely slicing the White Whale’s face. It was cruelly shredded from the tip of its nose up its cheek, with Wilhelm unleashing a stab toward its gigantic eye.

“!!”

The twin swords sank their hilts into the White Whale’s left eye, and clear fluid flowed out of the ravaged eyeball.

Wilhelm instantly abandoned the two sunken swords, drawing two new swords in a flash—from right and left, his slashes cut above and below the eye; flipping the blades, he added vertical cuts to its left and right.

As a result, the White Whale’s left eyeball was cut from four directions when—

“The eye’s falling!”

Gouged out by four slices, the White Whale’s left eye fell freely, and Wilhelm along with it—

The shout, from whatever source, became truth, and the eyeball, spewing blood and fluid, collided with the ground, squishing and splattering.

Wilhelm landed right beside it, the Sword Devil driving a sword into the eyeball, threatening to lose all coherence, and raised it high so that the White Whale’s right eye could see it.

“—Pathetic.”

Then, the corners of his lips turned up in a ghastly, triumphant smile.

The White Whale had been rendered helpless as the Sword Devil’s sublime combat techniques made sport of it.

It was clear to all that their fighting strength was not determined by the overwhelming difference in the sizes of their bodies-Volume 7, Chapter 3

Mimi and Hetaro use sound waves to affect the entire Whale, making all its injuries bleed again

Driving his blade in, Wilhelm ran up the White Whale’s flank. As Wilhelm cut through the bloody mist, the kitten siblings appeared alongside, straddling their ligers and looking at each other’s faces.

“Big Sis, join with me!” “Let’s do this, Hetaro!!”

As the ligers crossed, Mimi and Hetaro leaped off and joined hands. The two stood before the gaping wound Wilhelm had carved as they yelled:

“Wa—!” “Ha—!”

The pair’s voices overlapped; the sound waves broadened with incredibly destructive might.

The shock wave coursed in through the open wound, making every injury on the White Whale’s body bleed once more. The enormous body shuddered, and the White Whale’s altitude dropped precipitously against its will. The White Whale groaned in agony, raising its voice as it endured the pain, and barely managed to avoid crashing as the twins, riding their ligers, leaped off its back.
-Volume 7, Chapter 3

Wilhelm cuts its fin

“Do—? Waaaah?!”

The demon beast’s action, differing from all those before it, sent the White Whale’s head suddenly rising up, with the force sending Ricardo and his liger flying off.

Then Wilhelm, still atop the White Whale, said, “I’ll take one more before I take my leave!”

With the demon beast wriggling its body as it swam in the air, Wilhelm ran down it with nimble movements. The White Whale’s body was climbing, with Wilhelm leaping down in the opposite direction. Finely adjusting his center of gravity and using the stabs of his blades to control his posture by force, the highly experienced old swordsman exercised his body to the fullest, chopping off at the base one of the dorsal fins at the extreme edge of the enormous body.
-Volume 7, Chapter 3

Rem hits the whale so hard, she breaks its outer hide and gouges out flesh and bone, also makes the Whale's entire frame shudder

“—Don’t let it swallow him!!”

Abruptly, an angry bellow reverberated far across the silence that had befallen the plain.

Hearing that voice, Subaru unwittingly lifted his face and he saw a lone figure kicking off the ground, leaping toward the White Whale—a girl, with a flutter of her maid uniform and wielding a vile, spiked iron ball with her hand.

With a gale entwined around it, the roaring iron ball came to a halt when it slammed straight into the White Whale’s nose, easily smashing the hard outer hide, continuing on to gouge out exposed flesh and bone, widening the destructive wound further.

The White Whale let out a scream and tried to lift its head up to the sky. But a blade of ice stretched up from the ground to impale its tail, and as it twisted its body around, the small-statured girl whirled her iron ball around, scoring a merciless hit that made the White Whale’s enormous frame shudder as blood was scattered all about.
-Volume 7, Chapter 3

Wilhelm cuts the whale in two

Seeing the gleam in both his eyes, seeing the strength in his steps as he raced, seeing the vividness of the slashes of the sword he wielded, hearing the earsplitting cry echoing forth, and captivated by the glimmer of his soul, none could laugh off the old man’s accumulated life as that of a fool.

His blade ran, a scream rose, and the White Whale’s enormous, suffering body was wracked with intense pain.

With the demon beast crushed under the Great Tree, unable to move, the Sword Devil racing along its back did not hesitate to use his blade. The slash begun at the tip of its head ran down its back and reached its tail, and when the Sword Devil stood upon the ground, he turned right around, rending its belly on his way back to the head.

In one swing—sharp, deep, and very, very long—the single flash of silver cut the White Whale in two.

With a leap, the Sword Devil came down onto the tip of the unmoving White Whale’s nose once more.
-Volume 7, Chapter 5

 

[Nabil1234]

Nice enough

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Bump.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

So what still needs to be done before we can add all this?

 

[God900]

I know I'm late, but I agree, although, pretty small upgrade if you asked me.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

So what still needs to be done before we can add all this?

If the evidence i posted above is ok, the characters scale to whale, then i guess it's just a question of should they physically scale to their magic? I already posted in the op Sirius tanking Emilia's magic, and while she was bleeding, she later goes on to go toe to toe with Emilia.

Sirius fire magic counters Emilia's, and pretty sure Priscilla latter goes on to tank or block Sirius magic.

Then you also got stuff like Emilia's ice brand arts where she uses magic to continually produce weapons which she fights with physically, and other characters block, counter etc, though i guess in that case we would say that single sword, axe etc wouldn't scale to the full magic, but there is still the stuff i mentioned above.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

If the evidence i posted above is ok, the characters scale to whale, then i guess it's just a question of should they physically scale to their magic? I already posted in the op Sirius tanking Emilia's magic, and while she was bleeding, she later goes on to go toe to toe with Emilia.

Sirius fire magic counters Emilia's, and pretty sure Priscilla latter goes on to tank or block Sirius magic.

Then you also got stuff like Emilia's ice brand arts where she uses magic to continually produce weapons which she fights with physically, and other characters block, counter etc, though i guess in that case we would say that single sword, axe etc wouldn't scale to the full magic, but there is still the stuff i mentioned above.

What I meant was do we have enough support is there something we still need to do before we apply the upgrades?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

We have enough support for a general 8-B upgrade.

But we kinda do need to decide if magic scales no?

The full whale's durability is 27 tons, while Emilia's magic is 40 tons.

 

[Phoenks]

All of what you suggested seems pretty straightforward to me. I agree. And yes, Emilia should be "higher with Magic" scaling to the ice creation feat.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Guess that's good enough for me, we can do that.

 

[TheRustyOne]

I'm alright with the higher with Magic rating as well.

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

What reason is there for them not to scale fully from magic?

 

[TheRustyOne]

Why would they fully scale to Emilia's magic? Is there a feat of them equaling her magic power?

 

[SuperKamiNappa]

We have Sirius tanking her magic