Re Zero Discussion Thread: Season 4 is Real

[VortechsTG]

Wasn't Elsa's statement for the tip of her blade? I might be forgetting the other statement if there is one like that.

I must be genuinely tweaking or something because was there not a qna statement as well talking about Elsa being faster than sound? I can't find it...

Ground dragons(Earth dragon), 100 km/h, around 27 m/s.

No, but how on earth is Theresia "around their speed?" Even Old Wilhelm was far faster than them in arc 3.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

So apparently, Reinhard does have Otto's blessing, not only that, it seems he has greater control on it than him.

I do think he will secretly side with Subaru BUT i feel like we are about to see the conflict between them start to arise

 

[Zabazab]

I have long been invested in Marcos Gildark stocks. Here's some scans about him from Tanpenshuu 12: "Once Upon a Time in Lugunica II"

Spoiler: Skill/General

Marcos wields a greatsword. His hand-to-hand martial arts are actually better than his swordsmanship.

それだけ言い残し、マーコスはあえて刺客に身を晒(さら)すように車外へ飛び出した。

見え見えの誘いだ。だが、相手も無視はできない。──直後、マーコスの体の中心を狙い、御者を殺した一撃が飛来した。

「────」

視野の彼方(かなた)から迫る閃(せん)光(こう)に、マーコスはとっさに抜いた剣を合わせ、打ち払う。──マーコスの剣は切れ味より、壊れない頑丈さを重視した超大剣だ。正味、剣を扱うより、相手を直接殴る方が得意だが、騎士である以上は剣を手放せない。

それに、こうした場面では剣があることで重宝する。

「さすがに、素手で弾(はじ)くのは現実的じゃないな」

大剣に跳ね返った衝撃と鋼同士の衝突音から、マーコスは飛来物の形状を、矢のような鋭利な矢弾と推測する。ただ、撃ち落としたはずの矢弾が周囲に見当たらないのと、それを放った刺客の姿が視界に捉えられない二つの問題が生じていた。

──当たったあとに消える矢弾と、存在を隠し切る厄介な射手。

When shot with a projectile, Marcos could tighten his muscles to "catch" the projectile as it pierces him.

「──ちぃッ！」

猛然と、相手の体で崖を削岩するマーコスが、脇腹にめり込む鋭い感触に舌打ち。

それは鋼人と激しく取っ組み合うこちらの隙を狙い、撃ち込まれた刺客の狙撃だ。それが脇腹の皮膚を破った瞬間、マーコスは当たった位置の筋肉を締め、矢弾を止めた。

それでも、傷を負わされたのは事実。加えて、意識を逸(そ)らされたのも──、

「止めたか、あれも。大したものだ、お前は」

称賛の言葉に頭を掴(つか)まれ、マーコスと鋼人の位置が入れ替えられる。鋼人はマーコスの頭を掴んで振り回し、背中から崖に叩(たた)き付け、追撃の腕をもぶち込んだ。

Some basic instinctive dodging to avoid death.

そのオウルーゾの奇怪な一撃が、ジムラックに受け止められたマーコスの大剣を真っ二つにし、あまりの切れ味に抵抗感なくマーコスの腕がすっぽ抜ける。そうして流れた視界の端、一瞬の閃(ひらめ)きが彼方(かなた)を過(よぎ)り──、

「クソ」

とっさに首を回し、頭を貫くはずだった矢弾にこめかみを抉(えぐ)らせるだけで済ませる。だが、流れる血が左目の視界を奪うのと、超級の刺客たちの同時攻撃は鬼門だった。

Marcos's skills are basically second only to Wilhelm's in Lugunica at this point.

まだ若いマーコスだが、王国の騎士団の中で彼以上の手(て)練(だ)れはそうそういない。

それこそ、ロズワールとしてはあまり顔を合わせたくない相手だが、近衛(このえ)騎士団の団長である『剣鬼』ヴィルヘルム・ヴァン・アストレアくらいのものだろう。

Spoiler: Stamina

Marcos wasn't affected much by dangerous "poison", just tingling in his fingertips. It's not actually poison, but we'll get there.

すると、マーコスが腕を上げ、自分の左脇──具足の隙間から、血の滲(にじ)んだ傷跡を見せてきた。ロズワールも自分の左肩の傷がはっきり見えるわけではないが、その青黒く変色した傷の具合は同じもののように見える。

「どうにも、手先がピリつくような感覚がある。気のせいかとも思ってたんだが……」

「控えめに申告しただけで、私としてはかなり危険な毒を盛られた実感があるんだが、体格の差があるとはいえ、君の体の造りは本当に怪物級だな」

「お前が飛び抜けて貧弱ってだけなんじゃないか？」

『ロズワールの肩を持つわけではありませんが、刺客の性質上、効き目のない毒を使っても意味がありません。おかしいのはマーコス殿の方ですよ』

Marcos can still fight even with the progressing "poison" and tons of blood-loss.

どうやらロズワール同様、相手の伏せ札に苦戦を強いられている様子のマーコスは、倒れてはいないものの、その白い騎士服をあちこち血で染めた惨(さん)憺(たん)たる有様だ。毒の進行も手伝い、あの出血量で戦えているだけで十分に怪物である。

ならばいっそ、名実共に『怪物』となってもらえば、いい。

It wasn't actually poison affected them, but an "Insect" in the body parasitizing the Gate and devour mana, which is effective on magicians and users of the Flow Method.

ジムラックとオウルーゾが再び合流した裏で、ロズワールとマーコスも再合流。その上でロズワールはマーコスの後ろに回り、そのたくましい背に手を当てた。

分厚い筋肉の鎧(よろい)、その内側では狙撃手の撃ち込んだ虫が悪さを働いている。

おそらく、対象のゲートに寄生し、マナを喰(く)らい尽くす類(たぐい)の虫だろう。魔法使いにとっても、『流法』使いにとっても天敵となる、虫(むし)籠(かご)族(ぞく)のいやらしい戦術だ。

Spoiler: Forbidden Art

Roswaal applied a Forbidden Art to Marcos, causing Marcos's mana to generate self-regenerating rock armour all over him.

「聞かせていなかったからねーぇ。でも、光栄に思ってほしいものだ。君のマナを燃料にして、自己修復と自己増殖する岩の鎧(よろい)だよ。普通は重くて使用に耐える重量と強度を得られないが、怪物の君なら使いこなせる」

「誰が怪物だ、誰が」

そう悪態をつくものの、その巨体を『岩塊』の鎧兜(かぶと)で包んだ姿は、控えめに言っても岩の塊の化身──どんな悪童も一目で悪夢にうなされるだろう人外めいた姿であり、この禁術を未完成としたロズワールの師も、手を叩(たた)いて称(たた)えてくれるだろう。

本来の用途と違い、マナを喰(く)らって自己増殖する岩で相手の動きを封じるか、自重で押し潰(つぶ)させる以外の使い道がないと思われた禁術が、正しく使いこなされたのだ。

まさしく、『巌(いわお)』のマーコス・ギルダークを作り出すために、禁術は完成した。

The Forbidden Art can't be removed and is linked to Marcos's Od, being controlled by his mana. Roswaal says once mastered, Marcos will be immune to poison, and projectiles ten times stronger than before won't pierce him.

「その禁術は君のオドと結び付いているんだ。マナの制御を学んで、自分の意識で切り替えられるようにならないと、今後は鋼(はがね)人(びと)として生きるしかないだろーぉね」

「他(ひ)人(と)事(ごと)みたいに言ってんじゃねえ！ ふざけた真(ま)似(ね)しやがって……！」

「友好の証(あかし)、贈り物だよ。使いこなせるようになれば、今回の十倍の威力の矢弾だろうと君を貫けない。毒を盛られることもなくなり、正真正銘、怪物の誕生だ」

「ぶっ殺す」

重めかしい声で呟(つぶや)いたマーコスが、岩男状態のままで腕を振るう。その岩塊が打ち砕(くだ)くのはロズワール──ではなく、彼が作り出した氷や土の的だ。研究室に押し込まれたマーコスはそうして、実戦形式で禁術の扱い方を学ばされている、らしい。

And from the shop special released alongside Tanpenshuu 12: "Once Upon a Time in Lugunica II After"

Spoiler: After

Marcos detected Reinhard appearing before him.

That was the reason why Marcos Gildark, who had become the Boulder not just in facial features, but down to his very flesh by means of a forbidden art, was spending this tranquil night at the Royal Magic Research Institute.

Marcos: [――Who’s there?]

Sitting with his legs crossed and eyes closed, Marcos’s meditation was interrupted, and he uttered that question.

To begin with, he had not even successfully managed to meditate. With an enigmatic power swirling around within his body, he seemed to have been ready for battle for no particular reason. ――That was why he had noticed. In a situation in which the staff who were supposed to monitor the entrance were dozing off, he had noticed the being who had appeared with nary a sound or indication.

Only, perceiving the one standing still amidst the darkness, he doubted if his own senses were tricking him.

Marcos: […A child?]

After all, present there was a child far too small.

Not metaphorically, he was of a height that rivalled Marcos’s knee level. A child of a noble house wearing clothes of high quality, with striking red hair and blue eyes―― and, upon ascertaining those distinguishable features, he easily figured out which house this person had come from.

And, as far as Marcos knew, the only one corresponding to that age would be――,

Marcos: [Reinhard, is it?]

Marcos'a intuition told him that Reinhard had a potential for martial arts rivalling Theresia.

Looking at the young child who had appeared in the dim research lab from up to down, Marcos had trouble suppressing a silent, yet unshakable shock.

At five years old at most, not only was his body underdeveloped, it had barely even undergone development in the first place. Despite being such a child, Reinhard’s standing posture had been perfected.

The first thing that separated experts of martial arts from regular people, was their standing posture. To Marcos’s intuition, it appeared that Reinhard’s standing posture rivaled even that of the Sword Demon―― nay, that of the Sword Saint, Theresia van Astrea.

Marcos suppressed his Forbidden Art for the first time.

Marcos did not know how much his words had resonated with Reinhard. Only, a change there had been. ――However, not on the child’s side, but on Marcos’s.

Gradually, the proliferation of stone slowed down, and finally came to a halt. Then, the boulder that had been covering his body shed away, revealing Marcos’s real limbs, torso, and head.

Ironically enough, it seemed like the conversation with this senseless child had played a part in bringing unity to his mind.

As bonus info: The Tanpenshuu version of Once Upon a Time in Lugunica confirms Fa Jin is an application of the Flow Method.

 

[VortechsTG]

I have been thinking that even though Roswaal was nerfed, Marcos may not have been. It is sure looking like that is the case!

 

[Thanganimator]

Reinhard Concept Manipulation remove (maybe?)

One thing I find rather strange is that in Law/Concept Manipulation Type 2, Reinhard's manipulation of the world's principles is presented as both, and I'm not entirely sure about the lack of explanation of what "principles" actually mean. I'm also not sure if Concept Manipulation Type 2 should...

vsbattles.com

Idk

 

[MrTayman616]

Reinhard Concept Manipulation remove (maybe?)

One thing I find rather strange is that in Law/Concept Manipulation Type 2, Reinhard's manipulation of the world's principles is presented as both, and I'm not entirely sure about the lack of explanation of what "principles" actually mean. I'm also not sure if Concept Manipulation Type 2 should...

vsbattles.com

Idk

Shouldn't this be just "Question&Answers" rather than a content revision? Or just something to ask here?

 

[Thanganimator]

Shouldn't this be just "Question&Answers" rather than a content revision? Or just something to ask here?

Oh, because if answer is yes, it would probably be removing his concept manipulation, otherwise it would be a normal question, so I don't know which to choose, "Crt" or "Question and Answer"?

 

[Thanganimator]

Or just something to ask here?

That's right... damn, I forgot!

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Oh, because if answer is yes, it would probably be removing his concept manipulation, otherwise it would be a normal question, so I don't know which to choose, "Crt" or "Question and Answer"?

we already have a list of crts to go through, dont add anything as it needlessly delays other revisions.

 

[Thanganimator]

we already have a list of crts to go through, dont add anything as it needlessly delays other revisions.

Sorry

 

[Zabazab]

I have been thinking that even though Roswaal was nerfed, Marcos may not have been.

Roswaal and Russell do tell Marcos he's a freak for being chill with deadly "poison" coursing through him and for a lot longer than Roswaal at that. Roswaal says that his capabilities are at about half with the "Insect" in his body, while Marcos says he's a bit better off than that, just still not ideal for facing skilled opponents like the assassins.

「それにこう言ってはなんだが、二人を見捨て、私一人とお喋(しやべ)りな鏡の一枚で相手の追跡を振り切れるとも思えん。魔法は使えない、力は入らないと言っても、まさか完全に役立たずなどと弱音は言わないだろう？」

「……まぁ、平時の半分ぐらいといったところかーぁな」

挑発的なセリーナの眼(まな)差(ざ)しに、ロズワールが自分の体の調子を確かめながら答える。それからちらとマーコスを見れば、彼も深々とため息をついて、

「俺の方はもう少し動ける。とはいえ、あの手(て)練(だ)れ共が相手で楽観視はできんぞ」

 

[Crimsonobu]

we already have a list of crts to go through, dont add anything as it needlessly delays other revisions.

Someone can open up a CRT if they want . It's not like we can gate keep who opens rezero CRTs

 

[Thanganimator]

Someone can open up a CRT if they want . It's not like we can gate keep who opens rezero CRTs

Yeah i agree

 

[CastoriceTheFifth]

Someone can open up a CRT if they want . It's not like we can gate keep who opens rezero CRT

Yeah I was confused because I made this crt in the midst of that aldebaran and AP CRT

[Re:Zero] Subaru Upscale Maybe?

Worth a shot So during Arc 3, Petelgeuse manages to possess Subaru and take control of his body completely. However, despite Subaru's body being under Petelgeuse's subconscious control, Subaru a minute or 2 later manages to overpower his control with all his body and soul, allowing him to...

vsbattles.com

 

[Zabazab]

[Re:Zero] Rem Revision

Nice alliteration. This is an abilities/stats revamp for Re:Zero's famous (or infamous) poster-girl, ■■. I changed her images and summary too. Rem's Current Page My Sandbox

vsbattles.com

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Something I wondered just now, how would the story have gone if Reinhard had Priscilla's personality?

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Someone can open up a CRT if they want . It's not like we can gate keep who opens rezero CRTs

its preferable if the discussions happen in the discussion thread beforehand, If it was a well thought out crt then it would have been fine too but it really seemed like an off hand thought to me.

I do sound a bit agressive though, sorry gng had a rough day

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Yeah I was confused because I made this crt in the midst of that aldebaran and AP CRT

[Re:Zero] Subaru Upscale Maybe?

Worth a shot So during Arc 3, Petelgeuse manages to possess Subaru and take control of his body completely. However, despite Subaru's body being under Petelgeuse's subconscious control, Subaru a minute or 2 later manages to overpower his control with all his body and soul, allowing him to...

vsbattles.com

there is a limit of 2 or 3 CRTs at once btw, apparently one verse can't have more than that open at once

 

[Trxyway]

and even once fought him to a stalemate

I wish we knew when this happened, i know it happened but i don't think it's stated when it happened. Could be before subaru was summoned

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I wish we knew when this happened, i know it happened but i don't think it's stated when it happened. Could be before subaru was summoned

should be a couple years prior i believe

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Clind w prior knowledge vs Reid

speed is equalized, who do you think would win

 

[MrTayman616]

Clind w prior knowledge vs Reid

speed is equalized, who do you think would win

Is Clind immortal by all definition or did he become one with Od Lagna or something?

 

[Fezzih_007]

Clind w prior knowledge vs Reid

speed is equalized, who do you think would win

Clind have prior knowledge he gonna get his ass beat? Damn, that's rough.

 

[Zabazab]

Plum w prior knowledge vs The One Above All

speed is equalized, who do you think would win

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I am asking this because Reid has so far, no counter to being instantly compressed by a thought based attack which will always be faster than his physical sword swing

(atleast from what i could remember)

 

[Crimsonobu]

I am asking this because Reid has so far, no counter to being instantly compressed by a thought based attack which will always be faster than his physical sword swing

(atleast from what i could remember)

This could be said for Typhon and Daphne but Reid is easily stronger than them. He's just that guy. I don't know how he'd deal with it but he would.

 

[Fezzih_007]

I am asking this because Reid has so far, no counter to being instantly compressed by a thought based attack which will always be faster than his physical sword swing

(atleast from what i could remember)

So your idea is If Clind uses his Authority to crush Reid heart?

 

[MrTayman616]

So your idea is If Clind uses his Authority to crush Reid heart?

Tbh, can't prior knowledge Clind pull a Natsumi Schwartz and get a lucky hit?

 

[Zabazab]

I don't know how he'd deal with it but he would.

This is how Ram vs Regulus is described

 

[Crimsonobu]

This is how Ram vs Regulus is described

They're just #them.

 

[VortechsTG]

I mean, Reid overtook Roy's body and the dragon sword and the dp of the sword saint both have some resistances to authorities. Reid may just resist compression as well. That might just be a property of the heavenly sword. Or it might not idk. I don't actually think Clind w/ prep time vs Reid is so cut and dry. He may have full control over the power of Volcanica's body.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Same people who disagree with me when i say Reid would get a boost in stats sometimes btw

I do think he did have a counter but i am not sure what it did be, on that note, would he have RE for being able to take over Roy after being eaten by him?

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Re:Zero Upgrade's

In a previous QNA thread, I asked some questions regarding Re:Zero feats that I think may have been overlooked up to now, and decided to finally get around to making a CRT about it. https://vsbattles.com/threads/re-zero-ap-question.189972/#post-7668429 Argument 1-The Dragon Sword The Dragon...

vsbattles.com

 

[Zabazab]

Al vs Reinhard really is such a great fight. Being fully immersed in Al's looping mindset as he challenges a forced-lose boss repeatedly with his own cheat ally is incredible. A truly atmospheric chapter that properly sucks you in.

You get the setup with Al identifying the three pillars of Reinhard's strength he must overcome, witnessing how he challenges them, and finally witnessing how he fails in defiance of our expectations for our (current) protagonist.

First, the body— the plan to kill Reinhard's superhuman body is simply to fight in his worst possible environment. This fails because even in his worst enviornment, no one has a stronger body than Reinhard.

Second, the technique— the plan to kill Reinhard's Divine Protections is to corner him with trial-and-error to find a phenomena he cannot counter with his blessed status. This fails because even when rendered unable to breathe, 4 more Divine Protections activate to bring Reinhard victory.

Third, the heart— the plan to kill Reinhard's heroic heart is to use his father, the man Reinhard loves and respects most in the world, as a hostage. This fails because only a being capable of heartlessly sacrificing everything they love for the sake of the world can be the "Sword Saint".

That's why this chapter is called "The Strongest", and why next chapter is called "The Defeated". Aldebaran is defined by defeat. He was told no one could defeat him, but his first true battle was his first true defeat. And now he is being defeated again. Only this time, he expected to be defeated, and accepted it, building his plan around it. It's such a sad way of thinking, and shows how not even he believes his Teacher's words that carry him through the rest of arc 9.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Spoiler: arc 10, chapter 17

Chapter 17 is honestly one of the strongest political chapters Tappei has written in a long time because it completely recontextualizes Subaru’s entire journey from the perspective of the kingdom.

What really stood out to me is that the accusations are not irrational, they’re just tragically incomplete.

From the outside, Subaru:

• somehow predicts Witch Cult attacks,
• knows things he shouldn’t,
• defeats multiple Archbishops in barely over a year,
• remembers victims of Gluttony,
• survives encounters that should kill anyone,
• and now is connected to an incident involving Miclotov’s death.

These are the results of RbD (and unimaginable suffering) but to the kingdom, it genuinely looks unnatural. The chapter basically weaponizes Subaru’s miracles against him. Their points are pretty strong and logical.

The Sirius testimony is especially interesting because it’s technically partially true. Subaru does possess the Sloth Witch Factor, but the council reaches the wrong conclusion from incomplete information and Miklotov is now dead which further makes things worse because it clearly seems like Subaru did it on purpose

And Ram’s perspective was perfect for this chapter because she’s politically perceptive, you immediately notice how this entire “hearing” is basically elegant imprisonment disguised as procedure. The closed doors, guard placement, isolation of the camp, forced separation, it all feels pre-planned from the start.


Also, Reinhard’s final scene was unsettling. He’s being positioned less as a hero and more as a state weapon. The “capture them” order followed by his calm acceptance felt intentionally cold. This brings up a good point though, what does he truly value over everything else. Puck's (only) line from arc 3 about him being a hero and all that he will ever be is starting to gain more meaning every time we see him on screen. His character development will probably be something similar to Julius ngl, not that he would be beaten to a pulp and have his pride handed to him but in the sense that he would be an anti-thesis/alternate to him. Someone who chose to abandon the position of the "best" for himself

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Julius after his fight with reid next episode:

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

just letting yall know that i called garf being able to hit reinhard and surprise him the day the last chapter dropped

Anyways, holy peak this chapter was so fukcing good

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

before zab starts spamming that one paragraph, i will just say that Wilhelm should have some sort of limited dura neg for being able to damage reinhard despite garfiel punching the absolute shit out of him and not even breaking his skin. Also, bro was lacking so hard, cecilus would have sliced him apart for those horrible dodges LMAO

quick question, if Hell's snipe and Jiwald reached Reinhard at the same time, doesn't this finally give us a confirmation for HS to be relative if not equal to SoL?

 

[Zabazab]

limited dura neg

No. Awakened Wilhelm is already scaling above Garfiel in the current chain.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

No. Awakened Wilhelm is already scaling above Garfiel in the current chain.

Wilhelm scales to 20+ something full powered punches of garfiel

The fact that his opponent recoiled after a single blow meant that Garfiel's offensive power reached Reinhard with more than just a gentle breeze. —Of course, Garfiel didn't mistake this valiant effort for proof that he had surpassed Reinhard in skill.

"—It's an infuriating story, but..."

Reinhard stood in their way as a pursuer, but it was clear that he was not happy about Garfiel and his group becoming enemies, or even more so, Subaru and Emilia.

As the Sword Saint, Reinhard is merely following orders from the royal castle. Moreover, he has gone to great lengths to avoid any casualties by not bringing any other soldiers— he has sealed away his devastating combat power and is still facing Garfiel.

To put it simply, Garfiel is in his strongest state, with both his spirit and physical strength at their peak, while Reinhard is in his weakest state, with low motivation and self-imposed limitations due to concerns about the damage to those around him.