Rayquaza vs Naruto

[The_real_cal_howard]

Never had the chance to, having never fought another wind user. What we can say is that we've seen Kyogre do similar things with water, and we see Rayquaza screw with air currents, passively at that, it's safe to say that Rayquaza can mess with wind.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

Never had the chance to, having never fought another wind user. What we can say is that we've seen Kyogre do similar things with water, and we see Rayquaza screw with air currents, passively at that, it's safe to say that Rayquaza can mess with wind.

Naruto's attacks arnt just wind though

Chakra+Wind Nature

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Source for Kyogre doing this?

Rayquaza's Delta Stream in verse doesn't mess with wind based skills sans the ice based Icy Wind and Blizzard, neither has Rayquaza ever done so. Not to mention this is not just wind, but chakra.

 

[PaChi2]

Never had the chance to, having never fought another wind user. What we can say is that we've seen Kyogre do similar things with water, and we see Rayquaza screw with air currents, passively at that, it's safe to say that Rayquaza can mess with wind.

He aint messing with rasenshuriken.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

It also having chakra isnt much of an argument. Rayquaza messing with it would essentially just turn Rasenshuriken into a Rasengan on steroids.

 

[Rocker1189]

Which is still pretty damn OP.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

It also having chakra isnt much of an argument. Rayquaza messing with it would essentially just turn Rasenshuriken into a Rasengan on steroids.

Who are you referring to?

 

[KinkiestSins]

Personally think Naruto takes this FRA. I like dragon boi far more, but Naruto is generally speaking far more versatile, has better durability ignoring options and has better field awareness Rayquaza does have the higher AP,and he probably can freeze naruto in place to win as well But Naruto has dealt with similar abilities in the past (granted not to Rayquaza level)

 

[NeoZex6399]

Is this Rayquaza or M-Ray?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm assuming Mega Ray.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I was exaggerating with the sending it back into Naruto's face thing. What's more likely, and closer to what I meant, is diverting Rasen moves off-course. Delta Stream is quite literally turbulence, after all.

 

[Rocker1189]

It might strip it off its wind elements but the Rasengan would still fly true.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Actually im not sure about that.

Unlike the Rasenshuriken, which can be launched and somewhat controlled by Naruto long-ranged style (as in changing its size at the last second), Naruto has never used a Rasengan long ranged before via throwing it. Unlike the former, its a move thats 100% close ranged, as in Naruto holding the rasengan and tackling it into opponents.

And even if Naruto could throw a rasengan, he certainly has no feats of controlling it from such a far distance, so the likelyhood is it will just go of-course for Rayquaza, who can side-fly it, or it just straight up disperses.

 

[Rocker1189]

Actually im not sure about that.
Unlike the Rasenshuriken, which can be launched and somewhat controlled by Naruto long-ranged style (as in changing its size at the last second), Naruto has never used a Rasengan long ranged before via throwing it. Unlike the former, its a move thats 100% close ranged, as in Naruto holding the rasengan and tackling it into opponents.

And even if Naruto could throw a rasengan, he certainly has no feats of controlling it from such a far distance, so the likelyhood is it will just go of-course for Rayquaza, who can side-fly it, or it just straight up disperses.

Actually he does in The Last he did exactly that with a Rasengan iirc.

 

[NeoZex6399]

I'm assuming Mega Ray.

Then M-Ray possibly has a new thing: Energy absorption.

"Rayquaza once again confronted Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre. The golden filaments that sprang from its body covered the sky. An emerald brilliance illuminated the area. A terrible wind rose."
"The wind and emerald light visibly sapped the power from Primal Groudon and Primal Kyogre. Drained of their primal powers, the two vanished into the depths of land and sea. Rayquaza watched them go, regaining its usual appearance. "

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

And even if Naruto could throw a 'rasengan', he certainly has no feats of controlling it from such a far distance, so the 'likelyhood' is it will just go of-course for Rayquaza, who can side-fly it, or it just straight up disperses.



Naruto can fire his Rasengan as beam like a Kamehameha aswell

as shown in the Last and the Shinden novels



but that's adult Naruto though

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

I could go check but I just remembered this is not the Last Naruto so it doesnt matter.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Thanks, @Neo. That's another thing. I already covered Nomad though.

Anyway, back to the debate.

Naruto's best chances of winning are with durability negating moves, but a few things need to be done. One, he needs to use them, so Naruto can't go h2h, or use any attack that's not a Rasenshuriken or a TSB. And he has to especially not use any fire, magma, electricity, sand, or water techniques. Two, he needs to hit, and given that Rayquaza's gonna be in his element for this fight, his snakelike body makes him able to easily avoid attacks, and he has the means to overwhelm the attacks and/or blow them up, it's gonna be hard for Naruto.

Next, Naruto's clones. Once Naruto makes clones, it's going to prompt Rayquaza into using Hyper Voice until it's an even match. Being AoE soundwaves, the chances of Naruto avoiding it is slim. And given the move bypasses substitutes, clones won't be able to help against it. Plus, with Rayquaza's AP advantage, which would only get higher as the match goes on, it would notably cripple Naruto.

Speaking of AP, Naruto has to watch out for most of Rayquaza's moves, even the non-AP based ones. Naruto'll harshly drop in speed if Rayquaza looks at him scarily, experience flinch hax with Twister or Air Slash, have to deal with Rayquaza being able to get up close real quick with Extremespeed and can possibly lower defenses with Crunch, and Hyper Beam would be a game ender (which Ray loves to spam)

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

this is ashura mode naruto, hecant even spam clones all that much. Kurama clones do have elemental intangibility tho (or whatever chakra reforming after half of your body is blasted off counts as)

 

[Dzhindzholia]

The thread is quiet big,what were the reasons for both of them?

 

[KinkiestSins]

Probably closer immaterial if that is the case

@Cal I get speed buff and debuffs are allowed in matchups, but how fast is Rayquaza in the first place? (TFW I didnt realize speed was unequal)

Flinching only happens sometimes with moves like Crunch or Twister, while it does give him an edge in I guess with status effect inducement, Naruto can also evade by creating a chakra arm and moving out of the way.

Also, pretty sure Rayquaza has access to more dangerous status effects to be fair, freezing and confusion come to mind, which the former should work and the latter...might work.

But then again, for the latter, Naruto can just amp up his chakra and avoid his mind from going haywire like he does with Genjutsu.

On top of all of that, Naruto still has sealing. Not the greatest Sealing and not in character for him to use often, but it is still another option for him to use along with TSB and Rasenshuriken.

It is very close still, I lean to Naruto still.

To be honest, the thing you listed that has me most concerned is his status effect inducement moves, which Naruto has no counter to most of them.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

@KS

Short answer: Mega Rayquaza is in the topmost echelon of Pokemon when it comes to speed w/o being greater than FTL.

Long answer: At the bottom is Poliwrath, the one with the feat, who isn't even the fastest fully evolved Pokemon, as Pokemon like Jolteon, Manectric, Lucario, and Weavile exist. Any fully evolved Pokemon would get lolblitzed by a Mega Pokemon. And a Mega Pokemon would in turn get the same treatment by any Legendary, take Raikou, Zapdos, or Lati@s. Then there's Mega Lati@s, who'd lolblitz its base form (by the same logic as above), who are in turn, outsped (not blitzed in the slightest though) by the Primals. Rayquaza in base blitzes the Primals, and is widely considered to be one of the fastest Legendaries period. Mega Rayquaza lolblitzes his base form via Mega logic.

 

[NeoZex6399]

@KSins

Does Chakra count as natural energy/life force?

If that's the case, Delta Stream could absorb that energy.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Chakra is stamina (energy of every cell), mental imagination and the energy of the nature combined in narutos case

 

[KinkiestSins]

@KSins

Does Chakra count as natural energy/life force?

If that's the case, Delta Stream could absorb that energy.

I am pretty sure verse equalized means Rayquaza can absorb energy period.

But it is a mixture of spiritual and physical energy. His sage chakra is natural energy tho, which is the basis for most of his larger Rasenshurikens.

Which if Naruto just used one of, Rayquaza can absorb, but even then Naruto has fought people who can absorb his jutsu before (IE: Pain, now grated, he had the h2h advantage)

@Cal So with Dragon Dance, he buffs his speed to be close to naruto (.24c vs Naruto .34c) I mean, he could spam and win lol.

But even then, it only adds to Naruto Advantages due to solid speed advantage in the start

So yup, my vote is unchanged. Edit: To elaborate. Chakra is Physical and Spiritual Energy according to Sakura, while Sage Chakra is that plus Natural Energy.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Bruh...I just provided Digimon levels of a train of scaling. Don't miss the point ovo. Rayquaza Dragon Dances once and he's faster than Naruto. The initial speed advantage for Naruto isn't there.

 

[Overlord775]

@Kikiest Raiquaza has the speed advantage, he's astronomiacally faster than 0.24 c

 

[Rocker1189]

Naruto has Sushin to increase his speed too. Their speed is at worst even and at best Naruto has the speed advantage.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Bruh...I just provided Digimon levels of a train of scaling. Don't miss the point ovo. Rayquaza Dragon Dances once and he's faster than Naruto. The initial speed advantage for Naruto isn't there.

Not even close. Flies away from the Pokemon thread.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Just what I was waiting for ovo.

 

[NeoZex6399]

Chakra is stamina (energy of every cell), mental imagination and the energy of the nature combined in narutos case

So I think it can count, M-Ray absorbs all the energy from the Primal reversion (energy of nature) to the point of returning Kyogre and Groudon to their base forms (high 6-A) and forcing them to rest in the depths of their territories.

 

[KinkiestSins]

snip

Why do you think I avoided it lol? (Pls dont hate me cal)

But seriously yeah, that still works. Dragon Dance also adds to AP advantage. To put it simply, if our buddy Nardo didnt have regen, he be screwed. Now granted, it is shit regen, he might need to avoid attacks with clone throws. But one DD makes him slightly faster, not outright so. It is closer to speed equalized at this point (Not dping, still faster by like....01-.03c or so) Tbf, he if used it again, speed advantage and again, probably a solid speed blitz lol.

 

[AstralKing7]

my reasons for Naruto is that he is resistant to pretty much all its hax. I dont even know if scary face would effect naruto and make him flinch. Next Naruto has the advantage with status effects like poision and bind. Cal says rest can stop the poision but everyone forgets Naruto uses magnet release rasengan and raseshruiken that binds, seals and ignores durability to an extent. Naruto can also ignore durability with his Frog Kata taijutsu which people keep forgetting about.

Rayquza can also confuse himself if he uses outrage against multiple opponets. In this case Naruto in character spams shadow clones. Naruto will notice this weakness of his. Also does fire fall under dragon type moves??

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Body Flicker Technique is hard countered by the better Extremespeed, which is an actual attack that does damage, and is quite a bit faster than moves that function like Body Flicker Technique

 

[Rocker1189]

Body Flicker Technique is hard countered by the better Extremespeed, which is an actual attack that does damage, and is quite a bit faster than moves that function like Body Flicker Technique

Err you cant straight up equate moves like that. It is called quick attack and might look similar but it is not the same thing. Not to mention the speed of body flicker varies between the user.

 

[KinkiestSins]

@Rocker Priority moves in pokemon basically are just moves that take precendance, borderline similar to Absolute Attack, they just happen quicker then most other moves. Extreme Speed basically means Rayquaza will generally speaking, always attack first in a CQC exchange. While it is game mechanics, should probably still work here considering DD into speed advantage. With Extreme Speed, it is guranteed likely Rayquaza will probably smap back first.

 

[Malikobama1]

After reading through the thread I'm voting Rayquaza FRA

 

[Rocker1189]

That is ignoring the mechanics of the other verse. I never like overiding one verses mehcanics over another and putting it as priority. Especially with game based verses unless we have seen this in action outside of the game.

 

[KinkiestSins]

@Rocker If that answer does not satisfy you. DD twice and Rayquaza sweeps lol (Being fair to Cal mostly) I am done with this thread, still think Naruto has this for my reasoning and others.

 

[Rocker1189]

@Rocker
If that answer does not satisfy you. DD twice and Rayquaza sweeps lol (Being fair to Cal mostly) I am done with this thread, still think Naruto has this for my reasoning and others.

If we saw it in action outside of the game I would not have minded lol.