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The Primals were able to fight much more active Pokémon in the Hoopa movie. Then again, some of those Pokémon were the gods so...
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Oh, I wasn't arguing who was better, especially since I haven't watched og dragon ball before. I was just pointing out that Rayquaza shouldn't be counted out in terms of experience.Warren Valion said:snip
Kaio-Ken x4 Goku is Relativistic+, and Ki blast raises one's ki even higher than normal.GyroNutz said:Rayquaza can DOOOOOODGE
H...how is kaioken Goku 4x faster than Rayquaza when we established that Mega Ray >>>> Base Goku, at a minimumThe Causality said:Not easy to dodge a thing 4x faster than you.
It'd depend on the range gap.Warren Valion said:Kaio-Ken x4 Goku is Relativistic+, and Ki blast raises one's ki even higher than normal.
I am pretty sure we establish through scaling that Rayquaza is more comparable to Base Goku than Kaio-Ken x4 Goku.The real cal howard said:If Vegeta didn't die from it, why would Rayquaza, who's debatably stronger?
To be frank no, guko has approx the same speed as Mega Ray (if we count the huge scaling chain from piccolo to the Saiyan saga gukoGyroNutz said:H...how is kaioken Goku 4x faster than Rayquaza when we established that Mega Ray >>>> Base Goku, at a minimumThe Causality said:Not easy to dodge a thing 4x faster than you.
Do you mean six times?The real cal howard said:Rayquaza's feat is more than 8 times higher than the one Goku scales to. You don't even have multipliers to back up on. There's no legitimate way to say that Base Goku=Rayquaza without it being instantly debunked.
The speed scaling chain isn't that big. At least, not nearly as big as Rayquaza's.The Causality said:To be frank no, guko has approx the same speed as Mega Ray (if we count the huge scaling chain from piccolo to the Saiyan saga guko
It wasn't really a rant. It was just a sentence or two, not even any exclamation points.The real cal howard said:@Warren. Not even. Raditz stomps Piccolo & Goku. Nappa stomps the Z warriors. Vegeta stomps Nappa. Did anyone take anything out of Matt's rant at DB constantly abusing scaling chains to say they're crazily above baseline without feats?
I haven't seen Matt's rant, nor do I treat Matt's opinions and persepctive as gospel.The real cal howard said:@Warren. Not even. Raditz stomps Piccolo & Goku. Nappa stomps the Z warriors. Vegeta stomps Nappa. Did anyone take anything out of Matt's rant at DB constantly abusing scaling chains to say they're crazily above baseline without feats?
The only thing I'm missing is the Z Fighters to the Saibamen, which given Yamcha's fight with one, shows that they're not far apart. Saying Vegeta casually stomps Nappa has the same value as Goku's comparison to Nappa.Theglassman12 said:@Cal you're missing like half of the scaling chain there
Any numbers on a scaling chain from Dragon Ball come from accepted multipliers when they are applicable.DragonEmperor23 said:I think that came from the misconception that the scaling chain that uses numbers uses numbers from stomps and other things that aren't valid. So when you see a 2X or a 10X and you put the Arc next to it, he thought you meant training boosts or Zenkai multipliers. I feel like that could have been avoided.