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Raven vs Teresa

Anarchy219

Anarchy219

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-Raven Branwen (RWBY)
c43b8b062a679192137a29dcfd986650.jpg

-Teresa (Claymore)
Teresa.full.1219461.jpg

-Both High 7-C

-Equal Speed

-Both Bloodlusted

-Win via Death or Incapacitation

Who wins?

Raven -

Teresa -
 
Last edited:
This really reminds me that I seriously wanna update the verse because right now... jesus this really is lacking.

Anyway, main issue is that Raven doesn't use freezing as a main maneuver, though proof otherwise would be appreciated a lot.

Secondly, Priscilla outstrips her in skill so badly it ain't even funny.

Thirdly, she has moves like Mira's Phantom to easily run laps around, or Cassandra's Dust Eater to easily score a pair of chopped off legs at least. Or Quicksword, which would just delete her.

I would also say she should have Priscilla's level of regen, but until I can pull off a proper CRT for that, can't really be used sadly.
 
Ah somehow i confused cinder freezing raven before their fight for the other way around, before i realized that wouldn't make any sense.
Anyway, raven to 516 kilotons, teresa scales to 134 kilotons, so around 3.8something x advantage for raven
Seems that teresa has stamina advantage
How does teresa have the skill advantage, wouldn't they be around the same? (years of training, fighting monsters and other people, well experienced in using their powers)
Though if teresa uses quicksword raven is screwed
 
Teresa was pretty much above every single character in the series every time her ability is shown. There's the fact that despite never showing her true strength to the organization or to other Claymore members, as Irene noted she had underestimated Teresa once more when a group was sent to kill her and she outstripped every single one in the supposed qualities that they surpassed Teresa in, she earned the designation of Number 1.

There's the fact she copied the techniques of others within a short time, even as many are the signature of a Claymore gained after years and garnering experience. Among those that stand out would be Cassandra's Dust Eater, which allowed her to single-handedly and easily kill an Awakened Being that previously her and her teammates had failed to deal with, or going on Awakened Being Hunts by herself. This is despite Roxanne thinking that she's normally worthy of only Number 5 without it, and the Warriors fighting her feeling she's the least impressive and powerful of the resurrected number 1s. The second she uses it though, she shreds through them, none of them can keep up with its irregular movements, and only Teresa is shown really countering it.

Then you add Rafaela's fighting style, which uses the entire body and spreads a very thin film of Yoki around her body to fight with extreme precision, even blows beyond her vision.

On top of this, making phantoms by pure movement, which even Miria could pull off when not using Yoki. The mere fact that she can copy an orthodox fighting technique by watching it a little that lets the person battle people way stronger and even dominate them puts her quite a bit above Raven in skill as far as I care.
 
Unless Teresa has feats of outmatching someone who has the composite skill of thousands of lifetimes worth of world class fighters accumulated over tens of thousands of years, Raven has her beat in skill
 
Feel free to explain where you are pulling that out from.

"Experience" is also pretty damn paltry without any tangible explanation of said skill or where it comes from.
 
Sh outmatched Cinder, who in turn outmatched Ozpin, who has the composite skill and experience garnered from the thousands of huntsmen he reincarnated into over his tens of thousands of years of life. Its not experience, its skill.
 
"Has lived thousands of lives" sounds exactly like experience, I've no clue what you are talking about.

Meanwhile, people below Teresa have achieved speed amps without using Yoki and using pure skill, redirecting and even reflecting attacks from enemies that are much stronger than the person using slight sword movements, undulating their sword to make it look like a waving snake and making it near impossible to block even a normal swing, or Dust Eater, who let the someone like Cassandra match much stronger Awakened Ones without a single wound or fodderizing groups of Claymores that were previously giving her a good fight.

Not only are they below her, not only could she copy the techniques of the ones who she saw or the ones in Clare's memory within moments, not only could she combine the techniques as she liked, Teresa already does what is considered an entire Semblance by pure skill, copying techniques with a simple watch.

If "won over X who won over Y who has this much experience" is the best Raven has, yeh, not convinced.
 
Its not just 'lived a thousand lives' its 'absorbed the skill of thousands of people who each spent a lifetime training and honing their skill in combat'. Experience has nothing to do with it.
 
"the fact or state of having been affected by or gained knowledge through direct observation or participation."
One of the literal definitions of experience.

So yeah, Teresa has the skill advantage by actual feats, at least to me. Anyone else feel free to decide by themselves, I am sure I explained enough.

Teresa by skill, speed boosts, Quickdraw and regen.
 
Okay then what is your definition of skill?

Skill wont be enough to bypass Raven's multiple barriers that are 3-4x higher in durability than Teresa's AP and Raven has multiple methods of bypassing her regen and speed
 
Se i genuinely hate RWBY at this point but i hate the blatant disregard for everything it actually has even more.
 
The definition that most people likely use...? "the ability to do something well; expertise."

Surely Ozpin has skill, but the degree of it is practically unknown beyond his degree of experience. If all we have to go on is that and what the characters pull off in the series, no, I really don't believe his combat skill is nearly as grand as you make it out to be from his number of lives.

Disagreeing with you about how much Ozpin's experience converts into "skill" without meaningful feats to derive from it is not disregarding. What's the point of such needless implication?

Worthless multiple methods that you don't even deign to explain. Quickdraw was so many slashes that 4 Priscillas turned into dust. A forcefield won't matter in front of that.
 
It kinda is. 'He didnt showcase every single skill feat hes ever performed on-screen therefore he has no skill feats' is pretty textbook disregarding.

Seeing as Raven's forcefields are Low 7-B and passive, a bunch of High 7-C slashes isnt going to do much of anything.
 
Also since speed is equalized, Quicksword would be equalizd with it as its a set speed as opposed to an actual amp
 
Yet he got beat by someone that we have seen a lot from, and that someone got beat by someone we directly see in a fight as well. Therefore, they are comparable. Therefore, I can compare the feats against them instead of empty "has had many lives" which we know nothing about. Saying I disregarded anything because what you have to offer is almost nothing is childish at best. Worse, the ones that bested it have nothing impressive either.

Tens of thousands of hits against a shield that gets chipped down the more hits it takes sounds perfectly doable to me. "Low 7-B" Ah yes, a tier I see nowhere in her dura.

Equalizing a stat amp... and here I thought you really couldn't say more weird shit, but this tops it.
 
Yes, Cinder outskilled him and overpowered him and Raven outskilled Cinder, that does not mean you are not disregarding the fact that Ozpin has legitimate skill feats. Hell after she killed him Ozpin flat out admitted that he was able to analyze his fight with her and knew exactly what he did wrong and how to correct it and that if he had fought her again in the same circumstances he would have won.

Except 1. Speed equalization means it wouldnt be an amp, it would be equalized, 2. Yes, her dura is Low 7-B, aura durability is 4x the user's AP, and 3. She doesnt have the range to hit Raven

Not sure how its weird, its in the rules.
 
The countless skill feats you have failed to bring up, beyond something we can't really quantify.

I will care about this non-argument when speed equal makes stat amps get equalized, which they don't. Feel free to show me what rule you are talking about.

4x times the AP, which is said nowhere in her profile or in the verse page.

Edit: Can just close the distance with Phantom plus extend her arms.
 
Lets see...taking on an entire army of thousands of hunstmen on his own without using any of his magic, with each hunstman in said army being the most skilled fighters from each of three opposing kingdoms, and each hunstman wielding a unique semblance and skillset with numerous hunstmen being described as vastly stronger than himself, reducing Salem to a puddle several times during their fight (This was before he even obtained skill from any other huntsman, just his own),

Looking at her page its not a speed amp, its just a technique that is faster than her normal ones, therefore it gets equalized. Plus as i said, she doesnt have the range to hit Raven with it and according to her page she can only use it once and doing so severely harms Teresa as a result.

4x the AP as stated on every other profile in the verse and as stated on the CRT that got it applied to the verse

Edit: Tens of meters with Phantom arms vs several kilometers range with maiden powers, no she cant.
 
Oh, that's much better, though I don't remember this ever being said for Ozpin. Where did this happen?

A technique that makes your arm move far faster than it normally can is the definition of an Amp, which is what Quicksword is. Irene can't attack that fast without using it, Clare can't either, nor can Flora even with her version that doesn't use Yoki, and Teresa explicitly attacks far faster than any of her other attacks despite not holding back when she uses it.

"So it would still be High 8-C for the students for example, but they could take one or 2 hits from a 2-B" is what is being applied. Meaning, it is still Low 7-C and is gonna be grounded down into a paste with tens of thousands of hits.

Not sure why she can't constantly speed amp until she's close, making it near impossible to land any strike until she's in range. Though Raven still evidently prefers close range.
 
In the backstory for him regarding when he was still Ozma all the way up to the point of the war of the four kingdoms

Yes and again, since its a set number it would be equalized, i should know i tried to get Ruby's semblance locked to a set number and was told it would also be equalized under the speed equalization rules.

Her aura is Low 7-B in durability, im actually talking with Dargoo right now about getting it adjusted as it was passed over when the revision was applied and thus wouldnt require a crt as it was already accepted.

Becaus Quicksword cripples her?
 
Again, where...? Am trying to look this up and find nothing. Some material, episode?

I have never seen a speed amp get equalized because we know the maximum speed, so I will ignore this. But feel free to show me the rule that says this or where this ever happens.

That's good, but until then, what was accepted is "can take a blow of that tier once or twice, otherwise, dura is comparable to AP". Just going off the very thread you linked.

Nah, it can only be used once. But she can still fight after. Plus, that many hits sounds like dead Raven.
 
Speed amp stuff was decided here, basically the consensus is that if its a flat amp with a solid numerical value it gets equalized (Tried to upgrade Ruby's semblance to Hypersonic+ in that thread)

Dargoo gave me the goahead to apply it so i'll be doing that in a few minutes

I mean...I dont see how? She has to not only reach Raven, but has to get through three layers of barriers while also avoiding all of Raven's AoE elemental attacks including stuff that can freeze Teresa in ice shes not strong enough to escape from
 
So lets take a look at their stats and compare them:

AP/Striking Strength: At least 134 kt (Teresa) vs at least 516 kt (Raven) so right off the bat Raven has an almost 4x AP advantage.

Durability: Unknown (Teresa, though im guessing this should be High 7-C scaling to her AP?) vs at least 516 kt, 2.064 mt with aura

Speed: Equalized (As Quicksword has a solid number as opposed to being just a normal amp it would be equalized as well here as per SBA)

Lifting Strength: At least Class 25 (Teresa) vs At least Class K (Raven) (This would actually come into play here since swordswomen, allowing Raven to overpower her physically in blade clashes)

Stamina: Teresa's stamina description is odd seeing as it lacks an actual timeframe for how long she can actually remain in active combat for, whereas Raven has an actual timeframe. They'll be considered even until this is clarified.

Range: At least Tens of Meters (Teresa) vs Hundreds of Meters to Several Kilometers (Raven)

Intelligence/Skill: Teresa's feats have already been explained above so i'll list some of Raven's:
  • Raven as a child, with no formal training, was able to get into Beacon through sheer skill, which normally requires several years of training at a combat school to do.
  • Trained directly under Ozpin for the majority of her Beacon career and became skilled enough that he entrusted her with magic as well as becoming a part of his inner circle.
  • After she left Beacon she continued training virtually non-stop as a means of protecting her tribe and eventually came into her Maiden powers, training further with this power and becoming so skilled and precise with it that despite standing directly in front of him she was able to fool Mercury Black, whose ability to analyze opponents and their abilities is so great that he was able to determine Pyrrha's semblance (which she managed to keep hidden from the world for her entire life) after just a few seconds of combat, to the point that he had no idea that she was using the powers of a Maiden.
  • Outmatched Cinder in single combat, who in turn defeated Ozpin.
  • Neo, who had just casually skill stomped Yang in a 1v1 fight and who has no knowledge of Raven being a maiden, was terrified of even trying to fight her.
  • Her fighting style revolves around using a variety of sword techniques coupled with her constantly changing Dust blades and elemental powers as a means of keeping the opponent constantly off balance and unable to properly adapt to her fighting style.
  • Described on multiple occasions to be equal in skill to Qrow, who in turn 1. embarrassed Winter Schnee in 1v1 combat and outmatched her in skill while he was drunk, 2. matched Clover, leader of a team of Atlas' most elite and skilled huntsmen, 3. made Mercury Black, a world class assassin who was trained to be able to outmatch other fighters through sheer combat skill to compensate for his lack of a semblance along with the analytical skill i listed above, flee on sight, and 4. was described by Ozpin as being the single greatest wielders of his scythe, which Ozpin personally described as one of the most dangerous weapons ever known to man.
Abilities/Versatility: Both have Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Weapon Mastery, Stat Amps, ESP, and Flight
So taking speed equalization into account:

Raven:
  • Higher AP
  • Higher Durability both physically and with aura and barriers
  • Higher Lifting Strength
  • Higher Striking Strength
  • Higher Range
  • Greater Versatility
  • -The longer Raven fights the lower her Aura levels will drop from taking damage and if broken will leave her vulnerable to lasting damage
Teresa:
  • Skill (?)
  • Regen
  • -Quicksword can only be used once in combat
  • -Regen can be bypassed via decapitation/freezing
Equal:
  • Speed
  • Stamina (?)
So uh...yeah Raven holds almost every advantage here barring the clarifications on the stamina and durability and the debate about skill
 
What do you mean with “sword clashes under the LS argument? I don’t think that is a thing but I might be wrong.
 
What i mean by that is if they have a sword clash (ie. Blades pushed against each other trying to overpower each other through physical strength) Raven has the advantage
 
I don’t think that happens in sword fights, If we are thinking of the same thing then that definitely isn’t an actual thing that happens in sword fights. I mean where does that happen?
 
Least you could do when dropping a massive thread is mention where is the thing. All I could see was something about bullets being equalized and about her Amp being based off her base speed, nothing about it being equalized. The bullets have a base speed, they don't increase. Teresa has a base speed, and then Quicksword increases it for her slashing arm. These aren't the same.

Uuuh... why did you change statistics without a CRT at all...? And the point remains the same, they can take a blow at that level with their total energy, not that they are at that level. That's what was actually accepted in the CRT you yourself linked.

"3 Layers of barrier". I will love the day when you stop mentioning new stuff that you don't explain in the slightest.

Different dust blades with different powers that never do anything besides her using them to clash against people. You also says she uses different sword styles along with her blades to confuse people, then instantly say right after that mimicry is gonna do nothing.

Pfft, she has the advantage in powers... all she really has is an advantage with freezing maiden stuff and elemental stuff from Dust, which I never even remember her using beyond slashing at people, certainly not in her battle with Cinder. So forcefields and freezing that she doesn't even use as an standard move, and fighting against someone that could kill her in one hit, which Claymore way below her already do on a standard basis while hunting Awakened Ones.

Edit: Lifting strength only really helps if that happens in the first place, which I have no clue why Teresa would do if she very much sees she has more power. Very easy to notice with a singular exchange.
 
There was a crt, and i was given explicit permission from Dargoo to make the change as it had already been accepted back when the thread happened it just never got applied.

? Its on her profile and everything, first layer is aura around her body, second is active personal barriers she can create at will, third is a bubble shield around her.

What do you mean? In her fight with Cinder her dust blades are all shown to generate the elemental properties of the dust theyre made of (Electricity Dust crating electricity when swing, ice freezing things their wake, fire setting stuff on fire, gravity hitting harder, etc.). And yes, thats correct, if Teresa is as skilled as you say she is Raven would have nothing for her to copy.

So you dont remember all of the elemental stuff she did in her fight with cinder? Like creating AoE electricity, shooting fireballs, making elemental weapons, creating wind currents, etc.? And no, Teresa does not have the AP to kill her in one hit, three layers of barriers + 4x durability advantage hard contradicts that.
 
Yeah that isn’t something that happens in an actual sword fight. Why would they just stand there pushing against one another? Wouldn’t one just want to move instead of pushing one another? I think it’s just a flashy anime trope rather then an actual thing that will happen in a sword fight because I don’t think it has basis.
 
Ok, so this makes sense even if I am not sure that All The tropes is exactly a good source for sword fighting I found a few more bits about the whole kendo thing. It seems rare but possible.
 
Yeah figured its notthe best source i just couldnt for the life of me remember what it was called and thats the first one with a bunch of examples i could find lol
 
I asked him just earlier about that, so either you are lying to me or he is. He even agrees that the idea still remains that the aura shield can take one or two hits of that level, but isn't literally at that level. But you can feel free to ask, I guess.

I see that absolutely nowhere in her profile... Just the aura thing, and that she can make forcefields with her Maiden powers. Nothing else. Didn't see it either in her only fight that I can find.

Just watched the battles like 2 times. Only elemental anything I see is her ice blade when she cuts through the ground, and she cycles through like 3 or 4 different colors.

Besides the ice when she cut, all I saw was her Maiden powers though... Which was only Ice? I don't remember seeing a single one of the stuff you mentioned. Anyone else can look up the fight if they want and tell me if I am just imagining something.

If you get hit thousands of times in an instant, a difference of 4x isn't gonna matter. Plus, still need proof for those barriers that are totally acti...

Huh, **** it.

If Raven wins or Teresa wins, I genuinely don't care right now. This is just tiring, and debating with you is genuinely tiring. Am out of this one for the foreseeable future.
 
I will gladly post the scans of our conversation once he gives me permission to do so (Matter of privacy) but yes, Raven's aura can only take a few low 7-B hits, thats how aura works not that it really matters as combined with her other barriers its still more than enough to withstand Quicksword.

Not sure what you mean by 'only ice', Raven is both noted as and demonstrated the use of multiple different elements using her maiden powers.
 
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