[R3M1] Asuna Kamakura & Javen vs Cobalt & Destiny Lightwood [GARCE]

[LeoEpicGamer8910]

See the tourney hub for more cool stuff
​

Match Conditions
Speed will be equalized for all matches
Characters are only allowed specified optional equipment
Starting location is New York City
Starting distance is 10 meter

Character A	Character B	Key A	Key B	Votes
Asuna Kamakura	Javen	Adventurers Tournament Arc, Post-Limit Break	Super Form with Crimson Sword	0
Cobalt	Destiny Lightwood	Post-Nova	Divine	0
Inconclusive				0

 

[HonestlyBored24]

You have no idea how disappointed I was when I found out Weird Al doesn’t actually have a VSB profile.

 

[Javenplayz253]

You have no idea how disappointed I was when I found out Weird Al doesn’t actually have a VSB profile.

I mean we could count Milo-

javen starts out with throwing a couple of corruption slices at both Destiny and Cobalt

 

[Rayfire]

ASUNA VS COBALT 3, HERE WE GO

Asuna & Destiny when they see each other (They look almost the exact same lol):

I should probably address destiny's aura first and how javen and asuna could deal with it. Unlike with Fred & Delta, javen, who is the only one in the team who doesn't have an outright resistance to fear, isn't gonna be being hit with two fear manipulation users at once. Just destiny. I feel that just like before, javen's willpower can help him snap out of being scared due to it being particularly beneficial when an ally is in danger, plus asuna can also convince him to face his fears via her social influencing if that's not enough. Needless to say i don't think asuna's ally will be affected by this for very long at all.

• Supernatural Will Power (Javen as The Everywhere Hero Decided That No Matter What He'll Always Get Back Up No Matter What, During A Fight With Monster Portal, While He Was Brutally Injured, He Decided to Get Back Up Because He Knew That was His Friend He was Fighting and He needed to Snap him out from his monster form, as long as Colton is still his friend or alive he'll always believe in himself to achieve anything)
• Social Influencing (Leadership; Convinced Kianna to give her all in her match, despite her initially being incredibly nervous and timid, and did the same for shizu when she began to worry due to her upcoming match.)

Cobalt's radiation is also a problem but i think they can manage it. In cobalt & asuna's rematch asuna was able to tank the radiation very well with her resistance to it and other abilities, though this is an entirely different key and cobalt is stronger although since then, i've found out a lot about how deadly cosmic radiation really is Even over a very short period of time that sort of radiation can cause skin burns and pretty bad sickness without protection (2,000 Milliseverts is what you'd experience in low earth orbit, and is also 6,000x more potent than a chest x-ray to get a sense of scale) And i used this high-end that nasa gave me because both asuna & javen can go far above low earth orbit thanks to the haruka fight & travelling between galaxies for a day straight, meaning that the radiation they can resist is probably much higher than this too especially when they both do this casually, Particularly javen since he has spent extremely long times against that sort of radiation and he can create stars even in base form. The heat radiation alone would also completely cook them without resistance, so they can definitely resist some degree of radiation-induced mutilation as well.

Beyond just their resistances to radiation which should at least help, they have ways to further mitigate any radiation shenanigans too. Supernatural willpower will give them both great survivability against it (Particularly asuna due to more feats), plus asuna can reverse the damage on herself and javen with healing magic, and javen culd create a shield of corruption around both of them which presumably corrupts the rays as soon as they hit it too.

• Forcefield Creation (Can create a shield of corruption around him)

Javen can also create stars as a shield which neither destiny or cobalt have the ap to destroy, and even the deadliest forms of rays can barely get through a few feet of concrete or lead so this is very likely to stop cobalt's radiation completely alongside the corruption shields. They can also use this offensively too, especially once they throw the earth out of the way, cause, y'know, neither asuna or javen are willing to kill 8 billion humans.

• Creation (Can Create Stars that can be the Size of Dwarf Stars to Large Stars)

I doubt either cobalt or destiny could take the heat of something like Wolf-Rayet star WR 102 which is tens of thousands of times hotter than the sun too. It's also huge as expected of stars so if javen & asuna threw it at them it's unlikely to just miss.

I think that’s most of the major stuff out of the way plus a decent plan asuna could come up with knowing javen’s capabilities

 

[SSB64]

Following. (NGL, this might just be Asuna's first ever Loss or Technical Loss, but we'll see how it goes.)

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Cobalt's radiation is also a problem but i think they can manage it. In cobalt & asuna's rematch asuna was able to tank the radiation very well with her resistance to it and other abilities, though this is an entirely different key and cobalt is stronger although since then, i've found out a lot about how deadly cosmic radiation really is Even over a very short period of time that sort of radiation can cause skin burns and pretty bad sickness without protection (2,000 Milliseverts is what you'd experience in low earth orbit, and is also 6,000x more potent than a chest x-ray to get a sense of scale) And i used this high-end that nasa gave me because both asuna & javen can go far above low earth orbit thanks to the haruka fight & travelling between galaxies for a day straight, meaning that the radiation they can resist is probably much higher than this too especially when they both do this casually, Particularly javen since he has spent extremely long times against that sort of radiation and he can create stars even in base form. The heat radiation alone would also completely cook them without resistance, so they can definitely resist some degree of radiation-induced mutilation as well.

Probably important to note that Cobalt has strong enough radiation to effect blood sea soldiers who don’t just resist it but absorb it passively via her ability to evolve it to the point of transmutations occurring, so I imagine cobalt can make it an issue despite those resistances. It’s one thing to resist something, it’s another if you absorb the thing too, and cobalt has gotten around that before. Abilities like Plutonium Star System also vastly ampify these abilities

Beyond just their resistances to radiation which should at least help, they have ways to further mitigate any radiation shenanigans too. Supernatural willpower will give them both great survivability against it (Particularly asuna due to more feats), plus asuna can reverse the damage on herself and javen with healing magic, and javen culd create a shield of corruption around both of them which presumably corrupts the rays as soon as they hit it too.

Willpower ought to help but I’m not sure how well her healing magic would work if she had parts of herself straight up transmuted, and if it transmutes her head I think that would be game over since she’d be without a properly functioning brain, as would Javen who has weaker willpower as mentioned. Shields of corruption also probably work to stop the radiation, but that’s also something cobalt has fought and planned around too (again, blood sea soldiers, who radiate corruption with every movement and can even effect souls with it)

On the topic of willpower though, World Chains are capable of absorbing that straight out of people, alongside life forces and stamina, even if their attacks miss.

Javen can also create stars as a shield which neither destiny or cobalt have the ap to destroy, and even the deadliest forms of rays can barely get through a few feet of concrete or lead so this is very likely to stop cobalt's radiation completely alongside the corruption shields. They can also use this offensively too, especially once they throw the earth out of the way, cause, y'know, neither asuna or javen are willing to kill 8 billion humans.

I doubt either cobalt or destiny could take the heat of something like Wolf-Rayet star WR 102 which is tens of thousands of times hotter than the sun too. It's also huge as expected of stars so if javen & asuna threw it at them it's unlikely to just miss.

I think that’s most of the major stuff out of the way plus a decent plan asuna could come up with knowing javen’s capabilities

They don’t have to destroy the entire star to survive. Cobalt can absorb/erase small parts of the thing with her Plutonium World Chains which can easily extend at a far/large enough distance to protect her team well enough and even if not her Total Spirit Shield should reflect the parts of the star which make contact (sort of twisting it in on itself like the event horizon of a black hole) and get her team to Hyperspace before anything fatal happens, including the heat of it. There’s a few ways she can defend against it independently of AP. I also am of the belief that Javen will probably hesitate at points in this fight, which is talked about more below. That heat seems to surpass her resistance to extreme heat though


Now for the actual fight part… so a lot of what made the last fight incon is the fact that Cobalt would need a good deal of time to adapt her powers to the Post Nova key, which she obviously starts in here. A listed wincon for cobalt in that fight was ‘fully adapting her world chains’, which she has no need to do here. Also unlike before, Cobalt is at 5-C, she will have the AP advantage (whereas before cobalt was 6-B/High 6-B fighting for her life against a High 6-A). Even though this is slimmed down by Asuna’s reactive evolution, and she has zero way to get anywhere near Javen’s AP, it’s still notable in the context of cobalt taking on Asuna again. Destiny is also at 5-A and can one shot Asuna with any landed attack. Again though Javen makes that fact go both ways

Time stop also isn’t nearly as difficult of a thing for Cobalt to counter anymore. Her speed, skill, reactions, and confidence are all way higher than in her Awakened key and portals pulling her to Hyperspace is much faster and more effective than it once was. If it turns out like that, Cobalt would have a much easier time surviving considering she’s facing the same key Asuna here. She also gains resistance to reality warping which affects time too, so that should also provide her some form of help. Asuna’s magic is also listed as a form of reality warping so Cobalt should just have a higher tolerance of all the things she does in general and her power modification is fast enough to 3essentially be 'on the fly', unlike her adaptation previously (which, while fast, is quite dwarfed by what she can do in this key)

Another thing unlike before, this shouldn’t just be a counterattack fest where Cobalt is on the defensive almost the whole time, she has legitimate ways to kill/beat Asuna in this key and all the possible wincons Asuna had in their last outing are going to be all the more difficult to achieve. She has way more (and powerful) resistances than she used to, her abilities are skyrocketed in potency and efficiency, her stats are higher (and Asuna doesn’t have a method of passing cobalts ap at the moment, since her RE is experience limited), and Cobalt’s concentrated aura helps her deal with speed blitzing enemies so turbocharge won’t be nearly as useful either. To top it off, like always cobalt has the battle iq advantage. Cobalt also has strong duplication in this key and her Energy clones scale to herself in skills, she just needs to command them, which she has done against groups of blood sea soldiers. Asuna has clones but it's not like Cobalt's cloning capabilities (on the profile it's listed as 'countless' but her largest feat so far of cloning herself is nearing one thousand, which while it isn't countless by any means, it's still waaaaay beyond what I know of Asuna from the past thread and her other matches), and I doubt she has the same feats of clone fights as Cobalt does just based on the fact that a single Blood Sea Soldier is just so versatile and skilled in their own right, and her clones can defeat whole groups. She’ll definitely need to have good teamwork with Javen to win this fight. Speaking of which, have some things to say about him too

Javen's best advantage obviously lies in stats. I believe his Super Form is the 4-A key, which completely god-stomps the AP of Cobalt and Destiny, and the only way to harm him would be via durability negation (but Destiny's own RE shouldn't be underestimated here either). Luckily, almost everything Cobalt has is dura negating and Destiny's Magic is listed as being 'impossible' to tank through superior durability alone, so both are more than capable of harming him. Just as well, both Destiny and Javen are gifted but Destiny appears to have higher feats of intellect (at least in battle) and Cobalt's intellect advantage is more than self explanatory. He also seems to have a very little amount of resistances, and with Cobalt's vast array of abilities and Destiny's Magic, I think he's at a large disadvantage despite his stats. His star-based abilities are super strong and op in this fight, but as I mentioned above Cobalt does have methods to defend/mitigate those. It's also worth noting Destiny has instinctive dodging, and can even gravitational divert attacks without even thinking. Destiny also has infinite stamina in this key so Cobalt and Destiny would be a lot more likely to win a battle of attrition

I should probably address destiny's aura first and how javen and asuna could deal with it. Unlike with Fred & Delta, javen, who is the only one in the team who doesn't have an outright resistance to fear, isn't gonna be being hit with two fear manipulation users at once. Just destiny. I feel that just like before, javen's willpower can help him snap out of being scared due to it being particularly beneficial when an ally is in danger, plus asuna can also convince him to face his fears via her social influencing if that's not enough. Needless to say i don't think asuna's ally will be affected by this for very long at all.

• Supernatural Will Power (Javen as The Everywhere Hero Decided That No Matter What He'll Always Get Back Up No Matter What, During A Fight With Monster Portal, While He Was Brutally Injured, He Decided to Get Back Up Because He Knew That was His Friend He was Fighting and He needed to Snap him out from his monster form, as long as Colton is still his friend or alive he'll always believe in himself to achieve anything)
• Social Influencing (Leadership; Convinced Kianna to give her all in her match, despite her initially being incredibly nervous and timid, and did the same for shizu when she began to worry due to her upcoming match.)

Speaking of Javen, I wanted to come back to this. Yeah he doesn't have a fear manipulation resistance, but the fear property isn't even the only power Destiny exudes with her aura. It's described as 'overwhelming', and alongside that 'charismatic and explosive'. This isn't your average fear aura. Both Asuna and Javen will feel for the entire fight as though they are fighting their worst nightmares, which you did point out methods for their defense, but I also don't think they're gonna no-sell it either, so I think Javen in particular will be susceptible and likely to hesitate during the fight. Topping that off, it also says it drains the lifeforce of opponents. Because of that, Asuna and Javen are on a timer as their lifeforce drains. And as I mentioned before, Destiny has infinite stamina, so through planning by Cobalt (which surpasses Asuna's planning capacity), they can build around that (especially as neither resists said draining effect), so that's just one of many wincons they should have in this fight. Willpower can only mitigate your literal life being sapped from your being for so long, and considering Javen's isn't nearly as good as asuna's, he'd be the first to go and I have a very hard time thinking that Asuna could win if she's all alone

 

[Rayfire]

Probably important to note that Cobalt has strong enough radiation to effect blood sea soldiers who don’t just resist it but absorb it passively via her ability to evolve it to the point of transmutations occurring, so I imagine cobalt can make it an issue despite those resistances. It’s one thing to resist something, it’s another if you absorb the thing too, and cobalt has gotten around that before. Abilities like Plutonium Star System also vastly ampify these abilities

Willpower ought to help but I’m not sure how well her healing magic would work if she had parts of herself straight up transmuted, and if it transmutes her head I think that would be game over since she’d be without a properly functioning brain, as would Javen who has weaker willpower as mentioned. Shields of corruption also probably work to stop the radiation, but that’s also something cobalt has fought and planned around too (again, blood sea soldiers, who radiate corruption with every movement and can even effect souls with it)

On the topic of willpower though, World Chains are capable of absorbing that straight out of people, alongside life forces and stamina, even if their attacks miss.

Yeah, i did mention that their resistance should at least slow it down but that alone probably isn't enough, but thats why i have all these other arguments lol

Plutonium star system kind of sounds like a last-resort option on cobalts page, so i think any chance of her just using it immediately is negligible, especially considering that it leaves her basically asleep and she has a literal god on her side backing her up. If asuna and javen just avoided it then cobalt would just become completely useless if she did that.

Has cobalt ever dealt with anything on the scale that javen does in terms of ap, though? The blood sea soldiers also just sound like they radiate it, meanwhile javen creates a whole shield with it Cobalt also seems to lack any power nullification abilities so her only option is pure ap (as far as i know) which won't work on a 4-A shield.

How likely is cobalt to go for the head Like thanos suggested? Keep in mind that asuna has type 2 immortality which could help with that, and javen can also survive getting his face melted off in a similar way to mutational stuff as well.

If the fight goes to space, which it probably will considering that pretty much everyone here except cobalt is proficient in that environment, then the world chains wouldn't be very useful, especially since asuna can teleport herself and javen out of it's range with riftways, which have interdimensional range. If any damage is inflicted to her willpower or stamina asuna can also reverse the damage with time magic.

Asuna can also use them to send the world chains right into cobalt or destiny's face to zap them with it instead

• Portal Creation (Created a Portal skill to help her travel around faster and also to outmanoeuvre Chidori in brief combat. Asuna describes its capabilities as “A Timeskip” Referring to video game terminology. Asuna can also summon many of these at once, making them versatile and effective in battle, such as redirecting an opponents’ attacks back at them.)

They don’t have to destroy the entire star to survive. Cobalt can absorb/erase small parts of the thing with her Plutonium World Chains which can easily extend at a far/large enough distance to protect her team well enough and even if not her Total Spirit Shield should reflect the parts of the star which make contact (sort of twisting it in on itself like the event horizon of a black hole) and get her team to Hyperspace before anything fatal happens, including the heat of it. There’s a few ways she can defend against it independently of AP. I also am of the belief that Javen will probably hesitate at points in this fight, which is talked about more below. That heat seems to surpass her resistance to extreme heat though

The star creation feats are pretty vague on javen's profile, but i imagine because he is a toon force type of fella, it's pretty much a snap-of-the-finger thing. As soon as this happens cobalt and destiny will be blasted by heat worth hundreds of thousands of degrees bare minimum from what i remember, so any attempt to stop it with the ways you described probably won't be very effective since they'd just be vaporized by the time they try to use it, especially if javen spawns it right in their faces or puts them straight in the core Destiny has instinctive dodging kinda like asuna, but she'd still need to be really quick to escape from a huge star.

Asuna can also use her temporary power bestowal to make javen's process of doing this faster so that cobalt can't just retreat to hyperspace when this happens either, and destiny's instinctive action becomes harder to take advantage of too.

Javen will probably be afraid due to the aura, yeah, but if asuna, who would obviously be much less affected from it screams at him to use it like this i don't think he'll just be too paralysed in place to do it

Now for the actual fight part… so a lot of what made the last fight incon is the fact that Cobalt would need a good deal of time to adapt her powers to the Post Nova key, which she obviously starts in here. A listed wincon for cobalt in that fight was ‘fully adapting her world chains’, which she has no need to do here. Also unlike before, Cobalt is at 5-C, she will have the AP advantage (whereas before cobalt was 6-B/High 6-B fighting for her life against a High 6-A). Even though this is slimmed down by Asuna’s reactive evolution, and she has zero way to get anywhere near Javen’s AP, it’s still notable in the context of cobalt taking on Asuna again. Destiny is also at 5-A and can one shot Asuna with any landed attack. Again though Javen makes that fact go both ways

Destiny's danmaku ability is pretty vague, so i doubt it'll be a degree of danmaku asuna hasn't dealt with before, so if she can just dodge casually i don't think she'll need javens help especially with her speed amps, which she'll definitely use if she can sense destiny's godlike powers

Time stop also isn’t nearly as difficult of a thing for Cobalt to counter anymore. Her speed, skill, reactions, and confidence are all way higher than in her Awakened key and portals pulling her to Hyperspace is much faster and more effective than it once was. If it turns out like that, Cobalt would have a much easier time surviving considering she’s facing the same key Asuna here. She also gains resistance to reality warping which affects time too, so that should also provide her some form of help. Asuna’s magic is also listed as a form of reality warping so Cobalt should just have a higher tolerance of all the things she does in general and her power modification is fast enough to 3essentially be 'on the fly', unlike her adaptation previously (which, while fast, is quite dwarfed by what she can do in this key)

Cobalts resistance to reality warping seems limited to matter and physics stuff, and the blood sea soldiers seemingly used it to make a chaotic landscape rather than directly attack cobalt, and magic in Path of wills does much more than just move molecules around, it essentially turns your imagination into reality from nothing but pure willpower (Actual skill & proficiency and XP gain are also factors, because otherwise this would be a pretty obvious NLF thing without something to limit it) so i imagine it is a higher degree of reality warping than what the blood sea soldiers did

As you said in Max & Jack vs cobalt & destiny im pretty sure cobalt would actually need feats of resisting this sort of degree of time manipulation too, which other than her attacks still being active in stopped time isn't really there at all, plus cobalt would still be affected by any of asuna's attacks themselves, and she should because at that point it'd just be outright invincibility, lol

Another thing unlike before, this shouldn’t just be a counterattack fest where Cobalt is on the defensive almost the whole time, she has legitimate ways to kill/beat Asuna in this key and all the possible wincons Asuna had in their last outing are going to be all the more difficult to achieve. She has way more (and powerful) resistances than she used to, her abilities are skyrocketed in potency and efficiency, her stats are higher (and Asuna doesn’t have a method of passing cobalts ap at the moment, since her RE is experience limited), and Cobalt’s concentrated aura helps her deal with speed blitzing enemies so turbocharge won’t be nearly as useful either. To top it off, like always cobalt has the battle iq advantage. Cobalt also has strong duplication in this key and her Energy clones scale to herself in skills, she just needs to command them, which she has done against groups of blood sea soldiers. Asuna has clones but it's not like Cobalt's cloning capabilities (on the profile it's listed as 'countless' but her largest feat so far of cloning herself is nearing one thousand, which while it isn't countless by any means, it's still waaaaay beyond what I know of Asuna from the past thread and her other matches), and I doubt she has the same feats of clone fights as Cobalt does just based on the fact that a single Blood Sea Soldier is just so versatile and skilled in their own right, and her clones can defeat whole groups. She’ll definitely need to have good teamwork with Javen to win this fight. Speaking of which, have some things to say about him too

Asuna has dealt with people who were more skilled & powerful than her in a somewhat similair way, kedron was creating afterimages of himself during their fight and she sort of just rushed in and didn't immediately die despite being at a disadvantage. It's not really clones, but asuna is definitely familiar with fighting seemingly multiple enemies at once at least

• Afterimage Creation (Could keep pace with Kedron’s afterimages, and implied that she created some of her own.)

Asuna doesn't have a shown limit for her clones either, but she hasn't done 1 thousand before still though, she has plenty of AoE abilities to go around which can help too, like her shockwaves after activating her limit break which should also have planetary range, which if she tag-teams with her other clones can probably produce enough force to just blow them all back. Plus if asuna gets out of the way javen can again create a star to turn all the clones into crisp ash. (All of this is assuming that the clones can use cobalts shields at least, in which case i have more arguments for but im assuming the worst here lol)

Javen's best advantage obviously lies in stats. I believe his Super Form is the 4-A key, which completely god-stomps the AP of Cobalt and Destiny, and the only way to harm him would be via durability negation (but Destiny's own RE shouldn't be underestimated here either). Luckily, almost everything Cobalt has is dura negating and Destiny's Magic is listed as being 'impossible' to tank through superior durability alone, so both are more than capable of harming him. Just as well, both Destiny and Javen are gifted but Destiny appears to have higher feats of intellect (at least in battle) and Cobalt's intellect advantage is more than self explanatory. He also seems to have a very little amount of resistances, and with Cobalt's vast array of abilities and Destiny's Magic, I think he's at a large disadvantage despite his stats. His star-based abilities are super strong and op in this fight, but as I mentioned above Cobalt does have methods to defend/mitigate those. It's also worth noting Destiny has instinctive dodging, and can even gravitational divert attacks without even thinking. Destiny also has infinite stamina in this key so Cobalt and Destiny would be a lot more likely to win a battle of attrition

We haven't seen destiny get any feats of diverting a supermassive star with it though, the star creation seems far out of her league of what she can handle currently, plus she'd need to bend gravity enough to stop two characters with Multi-Stellar & Class Z pushing it towards them too, which again we haven't seen her resist, and that's assuming that destiny doesn't get vaporized immediately from her proximity to the star

Durability negation is a good counter, but don't forget that javen has some good acrobatics himself, plus he can stretch his body anyway he likes which makes dodging attacks way easier. Plus again asuna can give him a stat boost with power bestowal, and the speed will help too. We also can't forget about the ways they can hold off the radiation and transmutation too

Speaking of Javen, I wanted to come back to this. Yeah he doesn't have a fear manipulation resistance, but the fear property isn't even the only power Destiny exudes with her aura. It's described as 'overwhelming', and alongside that 'charismatic and explosive'. This isn't your average fear aura. Both Asuna and Javen will feel for the entire fight as though they are fighting their worst nightmares, which you did point out methods for their defense, but I also don't think they're gonna no-sell it either, so I think Javen in particular will be susceptible and likely to hesitate during the fight. Topping that off, it also says it drains the lifeforce of opponents. Because of that, Asuna and Javen are on a timer as their lifeforce drains. And as I mentioned before, Destiny has infinite stamina, so through planning by Cobalt (which surpasses Asuna's planning capacity), they can build around that (especially as neither resists said draining effect), so that's just one of many wincons they should have in this fight. Willpower can only mitigate your literal life being sapped from your being for so long, and considering Javen's isn't nearly as good as asuna's, he'd be the first to go and I have a very hard time thinking that Asuna could win if she's all alone

Javen will probably be afraid due to the aura, yeah, but if asuna, who would obviously be much less affected from it screams at him to use it like this i don't think he'll just be too paralysed in place to do it

It doesn't sound like the life force drain is really quick though, but even so i think it would just make asuna & javen more likely to use lethal force during that time, so it sort of works in their favor. Plus if they really need to, Javen and asuna can easily teleport out of destiny's range to stop it from affecting them. Javen also has the farthest range out of anyone here, being interstellar, so unless cobalt and destiny can locate him quickly they are likely to be bombarded with shockwaves and stars from a safe distance, and if the fight becomes a battle of attrition javen's range will be problematic for cobalt and destiny, and would also give asuna plenty of time to think of a plan to at least take out destiny

It's also important to keep in mind that, while cobalt has at least some counter to the timestop, destiny obviously doesn't, at least from what i can tell from her profile. Asuna is likely to be more threatened by the latter because of their power, so i have a feeling that if she gets her time skill off she'll go for her first and hit her with a good 'ol erasure to the head, similair to what she tried to do against haruka, so i feel like if asuna uses time magic even once here, considering that cobalt won't actually be able to use anything to save here, plus the fact that she might not always be close to cobalt gives me the impression that it would take destiny out early, especially with asuna's speed amps in play

Also, would any of cobalts shields other than total spirit shield be able to stop javen's 4-A explosive aura and attacks in general? especially if he is empowered by asuna it seems like her saving grace, but we can't forget about [Negate] for asuna which can temporarily stop a skill's usage if she is in a pinch, so if asuna uses that on total spirit shield if she and javen can't get through it immediately, is there anyway cobalt could stop something that's basically trillions of times stronger than her? Even if that doesn't work i feel like they could just wait it out, especially since even this key of cobalt can't exactly use it for very long according to what you said in shadic & nazo's fight. If they pressure her for long enough she'll probably crack eventually, especially if destiny is taken out early.

I mean cobalt at 6-B could reflect 5-C attacks from Triton (as I’m sure you remember, again from that Asuna thread) and her shields here are waaaaay improved, although the gap between 4-B and 5-C is way higher than the other tiers. For what it’s worth, all of her barriers, even the generic ones, no-sell 5-B level stuff and Total Spirit Shield, similarly to Alela, can even reflect information based attacks from blood sea soldiers evolved forms (at this point reflecting the damaging information behind their attacks outward, as zero conventionally durability based barriers could work), so regular attacks even at 4-B shouldn’t bypass that unless they have feats of getting through similarly based barriers.

It’s important to note, however, that even at this level of proficiency and power, the total spirit shield can’t exactly be held for a super long period of time and using other stuff is hard unless she has duplication on, and even then they aren’t as capable as she is, especially if she is further distracted, although even those can fight a smaller group of blood sea soldiers and win. If they’re smart enough they could try to formulate a plan around that limitation but getting around Cobalt’s planning abilities is super difficult. Only guys like Sakè could reliably do it

 

[Rayfire]

I will probably reply a lot slower soon cause my exams start in two days, so if we could get the next matches up to keep the tourney alive that'd be great

 

[SSB64]

I will probably reply a lot slower soon cause my exams start in two days, so if we could get the next matches up to keep the tourney alive that'd be great

Oh boy is Clover in for a rough time.

 

[Rayfire]

Oh boy is Clover in for a rough time.

It’s all over once clover starts dancing dude

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Plutonium star system kind of sounds like a last-resort option on cobalts page, so i think any chance of her just using it immediately is negligible, especially considering that it leaves her basically asleep and she has a literal god on her side backing her up. If asuna and javen just avoided it then cobalt would just become completely useless if she did that.

She can easily use a smaller version a few dozen or so stars are nothing for her. Keep in mind her previous keys limit was five for a sense of scale to just how much greater this version of cobalt is. Plus each star has their own strong individual effects

Has cobalt ever dealt with anything on the scale that javen does in terms of ap, though? The blood sea soldiers also just sound like they radiate it, meanwhile javen creates a whole shield with it Cobalt also seems to lack any power nullification abilities so her only option is pure ap (as far as i know) which won't work on a 4-A shield.

Creating a whole shield with it isn’t exactly out of the ordinary… she does have power null but only for similar/lower ap energy attacks so doesn’t matter for Javen but it could for Asuna, unlike the last match they had (considering cobalt could use it for blood sea soldiers and Asuna’s magic isn’t anything like V. Verse Magic, nulling her attacks too isn’t out of the question). Plus unless Javen has feats of defending against such with the shield, she could just atomize it with her Energy concentrations or Plutonium Death Palm which is also a wincon move against Asuna. Javen has Low-Godly over time but she has attacks which negate Low-Godly too so he’s not unkillable at all

How likely is cobalt to go for the head Like thanos suggested? Keep in mind that asuna has type 2 immortality which could help with that, and javen can also survive getting his face melted off in a similar way to mutational stuff as well.

I mean unlike Javen she has no feats of surviving without a head or brain, much less continuing to fight normally after. I’d say she’d go for it relatively fast if Javen is going to be chucking stars in cobalt and destiny’s face, and especially if Asuna is going to go for more lethal methods as you mentioned about the life force drain. And if anything happens to the earth cobalt is gonna assume that means her family got screwed, and good luck dealing with a pissed off mom with nothing more to lose

If the fight goes to space, which it probably will considering that pretty much everyone here except cobalt is proficient in that environment, then the world chains wouldn't be very useful, especially since asuna can teleport herself and javen out of it's range with riftways, which have interdimensional range. If any damage is inflicted to her willpower or stamina asuna can also reverse the damage with time magic.

Asuna can also use them to send the world chains right into cobalt or destiny's face to zap them with it instead

• Portal Creation (Created a Portal skill to help her travel around faster and also to outmanoeuvre Chidori in brief combat. Asuna describes its capabilities as “A Timeskip” Referring to video game terminology. Asuna can also summon many of these at once, making them versatile and effective in battle, such as redirecting an opponents’ attacks back at them.)

Not sure what implies that cobalt can’t fight in space, she resists everything you’d need to do be able to exist up there and can just make a shield for herself which would block those effects even if she didn’t (a very simple application of her power, all things considered). Plus she was battling on earth as it was being infected by the fabric of the sea of blood, basically turning it into a desolate and lawless land and I’d say that’s arguably a harsher environment. Cobalt and the world chains will be fine.

Plus I very highly doubt Asuna can do that. I’ve never seen/heard of her having feats of making the riftways anywhere near as large as those things are (they can basically be their own continents and just a few of them encircle the world. In a space battle she could go way more wild with these things since she’d effectively have no blockades, and even if she could rift way the chains cobalt resists damage transferral for all her energy attacks, so the world chains wouldn’t hit/hurt her anyway

The star creation feats are pretty vague on javen's profile, but i imagine because he is a toon force type of fella, it's pretty much a snap-of-the-finger thing. As soon as this happens cobalt and destiny will be blasted by heat worth hundreds of thousands of degrees bare minimum from what i remember, so any attempt to stop it with the ways you described probably won't be very effective since they'd just be vaporized by the time they try to use it, especially if javen spawns it right in their faces or puts them straight in the core Destiny has instinctive dodging kinda like asuna, but she'd still need to be really quick to escape from a huge star.

Asuna can also use her temporary power bestowal to make javen's process of doing this faster so that cobalt can't just retreat to hyperspace when this happens either, and destiny's instinctive action becomes harder to take advantage of too.

It can’t be assumed for a fact that that’s how it works, but I guess it’s fair enough. Toon force shenanigans don’t always make sense by definition. Idk if that’s in character for ‘the everywhere hero’ though, to be spawning whole stars on people like that, and the starting location is New York City on earth so he’d destroy the world Total shield reflects information as well so vaporization wouldn’t occur and she’d be able to escape anyway. Might be more complicated if negate is able to effect such a shield though

Javen will probably be afraid due to the aura, yeah, but if asuna, who would obviously be much less affected from it screams at him to use it like this i don't think he'll just be too paralysed in place to do it

There’s still that chance though and that one hesitation is basically all either cobalt or destiny need to land a decisive blow with their dura neg abilities through his lack of resistances. If Asuna isn’t swift to protect him in that case, she’d find herself alone

Destiny's danmaku ability is pretty vague, so i doubt it'll be a degree of danmaku asuna hasn't dealt with before, so if she can just dodge casually i don't think she'll need javens help especially with her speed amps, which she'll definitely use if she can sense destiny's godlike powers

It’s a team battle, and cobalt’s danmaku is significant. She can make 10,000 plutonium stars, so imagine how many regular blasts she could make. Asuna is known to dodge in the thousands which is highly impressive but I believe it can be overcome. The combined effort will be powerful and cobalt has her own massive speed amp in concentrated aura which also turns her into basically an explosion machine gun, so it’s not like turbocharge is gonna be an instant ‘dodge everything’ button, at least not for Cobalt’s stuff

Cobalts resistance to reality warping seems limited to matter and physics stuff, and the blood sea soldiers seemingly used it to make a chaotic landscape rather than directly attack cobalt, and magic in Path of wills does much more than just move molecules around, it essentially turns your imagination into reality from nothing but pure willpower (Actual skill & proficiency and XP gain are also factors, because otherwise this would be a pretty obvious NLF thing without something to limit it) so i imagine it is a higher degree of reality warping than what the blood sea soldiers did

Reality warping isn’t really an ability you can just jot down and describe in one sentence, that’s just the base application of what they do they can manipulate that landscape to do a whole lot more. Plus, if you read the conversation on the fcoc discord, I think you’ll know that anything ‘chaotic’ in V. Verse is far more than meets the eye…

As you said in Max & Jack vs cobalt & destiny im pretty sure cobalt would actually need feats of resisting this sort of degree of time manipulation too, which other than her attacks still being active in stopped time isn't really there at all, plus cobalt would still be affected by any of asuna's attacks themselves, and she should because at that point it'd just be outright invincibility, lol

Her attacks are way better, faster, and stronger though. It’s not nearly as simple as it used to be to land moves on cobalt, even in stopped time as she’ll likely always have a plethora of moves active. I mean she already had feats of her attacks moving in stopped time before, now she has more feats and is obviously far beyond her previous self

Asuna has dealt with people who were more skilled & powerful than her in a somewhat similair way, kedron was creating afterimages of himself during their fight and she sort of just rushed in and didn't immediately die despite being at a disadvantage. It's not really clones, but asuna is definitely familiar with fighting seemingly multiple enemies at once at least

• Afterimage Creation (Could keep pace with Kedron’s afterimages, and implied that she created some of her own.)

Afterimages are just that though, they cannot physically or mentally fight on their own cobalts clones are basically extensions of herself, they just aren’t like as ‘alive’ as she is and can’t clone themselves. The fight would basically turn from ‘Asuna and Javen vs cobalt and destiny’ to ‘Asuna and Javen vs 1,000 cobalts and destiny’ and there wouldn’t be too much distinction between them all. That puts it largely in cobalt and destiny’s favor since I’m having a hard time imagining a scenario where Asuna or Javen defeat one thousand post nova cobalts. This would be a lot more feasible if her own cloning was comparable, but at the moment it simply isn’t

Asuna doesn't have a shown limit for her clones either, but she hasn't done 1 thousand before still though, she has plenty of AoE abilities to go around which can help too, like her shockwaves after activating her limit break which should also have planetary range, which if she tag-teams with her other clones can probably produce enough force to just blow them all back. Plus if asuna gets out of the way javen can again create a star to turn all the clones into crisp ash. (All of this is assuming that the clones can use cobalts shields at least, in which case i have more arguments for but im assuming the worst here lol)

Well yeah they can use the shields, they can basically do what cobalt herself can. Although she needs to mentally command them they can individually hold their own against blood sea soldiers independently of commands, they basically just need to be relayed a complex plan if that need arises. So they can both attack and defend just as well on their own, and best believe that if Javen spawns a star, they’ll do exactly as the main cobalt would when it comes to defending against it. Plus all of these cobalts have a bunch of aoe options too, Asuna and cobalt aren’t so different when it comes to having a wealth of options. The main point is that cobalt’s are shot WAY higher thanks to her superior cloning

We haven't seen destiny get any feats of diverting a supermassive star with it though, the star creation seems far out of her league of what she can handle currently, plus she'd need to bend gravity enough to stop two characters with Multi-Stellar & Class Z pushing it towards them too, which again we haven't seen her resist, and that's assuming that destiny doesn't get vaporized immediately from her proximity to the star

There doesn’t need to be anything too complex about this. They can just avoid the star. The easiest way is cobalt makes a shield and portals destiny and herself to safety. In the case of Asuna using negate or something, cobalt power modification would most likely save her and she’d just come up with a new barrier that is just good enough to help defend for the moments necessary to dodge. She has other methods too, anyway. Cobalt can resist the heat of multiple stars so being within the core of one probably isn’t too bad, especially
when considering she’ll be portaling out of it within 0.000000001 seconds or something with her FTL speeds

Durability negation is a good counter, but don't forget that javen has some good acrobatics himself, plus he can stretch his body anyway he likes which makes dodging attacks way easier. Plus again asuna can give him a stat boost with power bestowal, and the speed will help too. We also can't forget about the ways they can hold off the radiation and transmutation too

I doubt he has the movement to avoid Cobalt considering she can land hands on enemies with precog (blood sea soldiers) and Destiny isn’t just some slouch, this is the peak of her skills and power. As far as I’m concerned stretching just makes more of him to hit

It doesn't sound like the life force drain is really quick though, but even so i think it would just make asuna & javen more likely to use lethal force during that time, so it sort of works in their favor. Plus if they really need to, Javen and asuna can easily teleport out of destiny's range to stop it from affecting them. Javen also has the farthest range out of anyone here, being interstellar, so unless cobalt and destiny can locate him quickly they are likely to be bombarded with shockwaves and stars from a safe distance, and if the fight becomes a battle of attrition javen's range will be problematic for cobalt and destiny, and would also give asuna plenty of time to think of a plan to at least take out destiny

Its not like it’s implied to be slow either… without a resistance, all they have is their willpower to rely on and as far as I know draining life force is something foreign to Asuna so it will likely catch her off guard, especially considering the starting distance. If they wanna use lethal forces, cobalt has a can of worms she can open on them and I’m unsure they would wanna go down that road so fast. Plus range is just a matter of cobalt sending intangible clones after him (immune to the effects of stars, which wouldn’t harm the non-physical) which would basically isolate Asuna and her non physicals into facing them all on her own which, again, I don’t think is exactly wise, especially considering general physical shockwaves and aoe won’t push them away at all

Also, would any of cobalts shields other than total spirit shield be able to stop javen's 4-A explosive aura and attacks in general? especially if he is empowered by asuna it seems like her saving grace, but we can't forget about [Negate] for asuna which can temporarily stop a skill's usage if she is in a pinch, so if asuna uses that on total spirit shield if she and javen can't get through it immediately, is there anyway cobalt could stop something that's basically trillions of times stronger than her? Even if that doesn't work i feel like they could just wait it out, especially since even this key of cobalt can't exactly use it for very long according to what you said in shadic & nazo's fight. If they pressure her for long enough she'll probably crack eventually, especially if destiny is taken out early.

She could dodge them idk why it’s being assumed she’ll be forced to block these 4-A attacks when she’s more than capable of making the easy play and just moving away. Power modification can mitigate negates effects with some other types of shields as well, although they may not be as strong as total shield they’ll still do their jobs. Plus the clones can use total spirit shield individually, so not sure if negate is actually a true counter here even if it lands on the main cobalt since the clones can protect her anyway. Would negate block the move across a thousand clones? If it doesn’t have the feats of doing at least something similar, it can’t be assumed to work across the board…

Also yeah total spirit shield reflects info anyway as I’ve said so it’s plausible that applies to negate too and then it doesn’t even matter. Also also this is kinda forgetting that cobalt is the master of stamina regulation, she isn’t one to just use something for too long even in her first key and it’s fair to say she’s millions of times better at using her power than she was when she first got it

It hasn’t been mentioned yet either, but ‘Plutonium Force’ also cuts the power and effects of all the attacks used against cobalt in half, and it’s always active, so not only is she just greatly upscaled in literally all ways from the previous Asuna thread, she also only takes half damage and effects too. The difference is basically night and day while Asuna is the same. Javen is a big problem though, but I pointed out already there’s a massive intellect gap and he has like 4-5 total resistances which is just asking for cobalt or destiny’s hax to take him out quick. It seems like their main options are range and his star stuff + some combo of asuna’s classic versatility and planning, but the way I see it cobalt and destiny have ways to counter all of it. Cobalt has the planning edge, has even more abilities/hax and all that jazz and even the star stuff isn’t a sure fire way of winning thanks to cobalts clones/portals/various defense methods and if cobalt just sticks to destiny it’s a lot harder to exploit her time stop weakness. The odds of winning just appear a lot higher in one teams favor

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

"It’s important to note, however, that even at this level of proficiency and power, the total spirit shield can’t exactly be held for a super long period of time and using other stuff is hard unless she has duplication on, and even then they aren’t as capable as she is, especially if she is further distracted, although even those can fight a smaller group of blood sea soldiers and win. If they’re smart enough they could try to formulate a plan around that limitation but getting around Cobalt’s planning abilities is super difficult. Only guys like Sakè could reliably do it"

This is also a thing. Clearly the clones aren't EXACTLY as capable as the main Cobalt is, but this is made up for by their sheer numbers (plus the fact that Cobalt has enough abilities and versatility for a thousand clones to be doing a thousand different things shouldn't be ignored) and trying to outplan Cobalt is basically a lost cause because neither are close to someone like Sakè (extraordinary genius) who actually did it successfully

 

[SSB64]

Afterimages are just that though, they cannot physically or mentally fight on their own

Weirdly enough, the only afterimages I can think of that can fight separately are the ones when a Pokemon used Double Team from the anime, and even then, that might just be cloning unlike in the games.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Weirdly enough, the only afterimages I can think of that can fight separately are the ones when a Pokemon used Double Team from the anime, and even then, that might just be cloning unlike in the games.

As someone who has watched the pokemon anime, yeah those have no real battle ability at all. They've never physically been able to effect the opponent and it's basically a pure distraction/deception move. By definition, afterimages cannot do any meaningful attacks

 

[SSB64]

As someone who has watched the pokemon anime, yeah those have no real battle ability at all. They've never physically been able to effect the opponent and it's basically a pure distraction/deception move. By definition, afterimages cannot do any meaningful attacks

Ah.

Also, I think it's important to note that in order to determine this matchup, there's one question we need to ask ourselves.

If this fight were just Javen Vs Destiny, who would win? This single question could radically alter who would win this fight.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

If this fight were just Javen Vs Destiny, who would win? This single question could radically alter who would win this fight.

he doesn't get past the fear aura nearly as well without Asuna's encouragement/an ally at his side, but because he has some ways around it in this fight due to the circumstances I'll assume the fight is able to actually occur

I think Destiny can beat him for sure. I said it above but he has a glaring lack of resistance to haxy things and that's not just to Cobalt's stuff, it's just in general. Her Magic is all durability negating and she has a bunch of ways to assist with dodging, and she's able to change her perception to the point that her enemies appear to have the speed of a snail (important to note that this appears to not actually change her opponent's speed since it says nothing of actually doing that., and because she is manipulating her own perception this should still work just fine even if her opponents both resist it), and that's 2 keys ago so it's most likely way better here than it is when she first has it. So even if he negged the aura she could react fast enough to off him with her Magic thanks to that. I think that combined with her aura and Magic powers + seemingly having higher battle iq would let her beat Javen. Her best bet is to do so before he can do anything crazy though, but in this team fight Cobalt is more than able to help her out with that stuff if Javen is able to get real attacks off

 

[Rayfire]

Since venefica doesn't seem to want to get burnt out and i also don't have a whole lot of time to reply atm, i'll keep it short and simple and address the more important stuff

She can easily use a smaller version a few dozen or so stars are nothing for her. Keep in mind her previous keys limit was five for a sense of scale to just how much greater this version of cobalt is. Plus each star has their own strong individual effects

I feel like that would just make it easier to avoid and deal with, though? Especially when Asuna can get her and Javen out of there with Riftways in an instant. Cobalts range isn’t the best compared to Javen in particular so they could still attack if they need to get distance.

Creating a whole shield with it isn’t exactly out of the ordinary… she does have power null but only for similar/lower ap energy attacks so doesn’t matter for Javen but it could for Asuna, unlike the last match they had (considering cobalt could use it for blood sea soldiers and Asuna’s magic isn’t anything like V. Verse Magic, nulling her attacks too isn’t out of the question). Plus unless Javen has feats of defending against such with the shield, she could just atomize it with her Energy concentrations or Plutonium Death Palm which is also a wincon move against Asuna. Javen has Low-Godly over time but she has attacks which negate Low-Godly too so he’s not unkillable at all

Even if they could just not get corrupted as soon as they touch it, Javen also has an explosive aura which he would definitely use to blast them away.

• Aura (Explosion)

I mean unlike Javen she has no feats of surviving without a head or brain, much less continuing to fight normally after. I’d say she’d go for it relatively fast if Javen is going to be chucking stars in cobalt and destiny’s face, and especially if Asuna is going to go for more lethal methods as you mentioned about the life force drain. And if anything happens to the earth cobalt is gonna assume that means her family got screwed, and good luck dealing with a pissed off mom with nothing more to lose

I mentioned that Asuna would most likely just throw the earth out of the way to another star system with class Z lifting strength lol, and yes but we can’t forget about how they can avoid the radiation though, cobalts range is pretty limited, Asuna can teleport both of them out of the way anytime, and you mentioned before how the corruption forcefields would be effective in dealing with it, they just need to stop anything that can bypass it’s corruption and durability and they’re good, which they have the skill to do.

There doesn’t need to be anything too complex about this. They can just avoid the star. The easiest way is cobalt makes a shield and portals destiny and herself to safety. In the case of Asuna using negate or something, cobalt power modification would most likely save her and she’d just come up with a new barrier that is just good enough to help defend for the moments necessary to dodge. She has other methods too, anyway. Cobalt can resist the heat of multiple stars so being within the core of one probably isn’t too bad, especially
when considering she’ll be portaling out of it within 0.000000001 seconds or something with her FTL speeds

Having science knowledge will come in handy here...

Being in the core of a star is way, WAY worse than just resisting being on it's surface though. The suns core for example is about 2,700x hotter than it's surface is, and javen can create significantly bigger and hotter stars than this, so make of that what you will I don't think cobalt makes ACTUAL stars with her moves, otherwise she'd be 4-C.

In the sun, the core would burn you to a crisp in about a femtosecond according to this and obviously a High 4-C star will be much quicker than this. A femtosecond is about enough time for light to travel the diameter of a bacteria cell, so yeah, if javen spawns one on top of them it's game over.

I know they can dodge, but at the same time the star would be so freaking huge that it'd be difficult not to miss, as i've mentioned earlier. Teleporting away is an option but that would only work for so long especially if asuna amps javen up with massively superior speed to them

 

[Rayfire]

Ah.

Also, I think it's important to note that in order to determine this matchup, there's one question we need to ask ourselves.

If this fight were just Javen Vs Destiny, who would win? This single question could radically alter who would win this fight.

Asuna's social influencing can snap javen out of any fear aura shenanigans if his willpower isn't enough, plus she can give him a massive speed advantage if she uses her speed amps as well, which would make it far easier to land a killing blow, and thus his crazy stuff would be much harder to avoid. Destiny's instinctive action could work but we haven't seen how it does against massively faster opponents.

• Empowerment & Temporary Power Bestowal (Via allies. Can combine skills with another person to make them far stronger, like a tag-team attack.)

Javen also has omnidirectional attacks, like his explosive aura, which helps if superior speed somehow doesn't work

 

[SSB64]

I mainly ask the Javen Vs Destiny question because it may determine which 2v1 is more likely to occur.

Like, if Asuna/Javen and Cobalt/Destiny were split from their partners by a large distance, who could easier isolate the other side's partner to single them out and get rid of them?

 

[LeoEpicGamer8910]

Even if they could just not get corrupted as soon as they touch it, Javen also has an explosive aura which he would definitely use to blast them away.

• Aura (Explosion)

Explosive in this context means like a cosmetic thing as seen on FC/OC's page for aura. It's not something that will blast them away if they get close.

 

[Rayfire]

Explosive in this context means like a cosmetic thing as seen on FC/OC's page for aura. It's not something that will blast them away if they get close.

It still mentions that it's a shockwave of energy around the user, so it's definitely combat applicable at least and it has interplanetary range too

Explosive - When activated, this type of aura creates a powerful shock wave of energy around the user. Also includes various elemental aura.

 

[LeoEpicGamer8910]

It still mentions that it's a shockwave of energy around the user, so it's definitely combat applicable at least and it has interplanetary range too

Explosive - When activated, this type of aura creates a powerful shock wave of energy around the user. Also includes various elemental aura.

I mean, in most fiction this type of thing never really does anything in a fight. Most of the time it's kinda just there to look cool, and I'm 99% sure interplanetary range is exclusively for Javen's other attacks, not the aura.

 

[Rayfire]

I mean, in most fiction this type of thing never really does anything in a fight. Most of the time it's kinda just there to look cool, and I'm 99% sure interplanetary range is exclusively for Javen's other attacks, not the aura.

I feel like @Javenplayz253 could it explain it then, lol

It's the other way round:

Stellar, Interplanetary for Aura

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

I feel like that would just make it easier to avoid and deal with, though? Especially when Asuna can get her and Javen out of there with Riftways in an instant. Cobalts range isn’t the best compared to Javen in particular so they could still attack if they need to get distance.

More distance will make it easier for Cobalt to defend too. She can use her shields and whatnot but she could also use her Plutonium Hyperblade

Even if they could just not get corrupted as soon as they touch it, Javen also has an explosive aura which he would definitely use to blast them away.

• Aura (Explosion)

She's had to contend with explosive auras which can destroy souls before, so I think a regular one is no big deal. Plus having an aura doesn't guarantee stopping attacks, they are non-physical and clearly, this isn't defined as a barrier so it's just another matter of keeping distance and sending her Plutonium Phantoms

I mentioned that Asuna would most likely just throw the earth out of the way to another star system with class Z lifting strength lol, and yes but we can’t forget about how they can avoid the radiation though, cobalts range is pretty limited, Asuna can teleport both of them out of the way anytime, and you mentioned before how the corruption forcefields would be effective in dealing with it, they just need to stop anything that can bypass it’s corruption and durability and they’re good, which they have the skill to do.

No chance Class Z let's her do that, the best feat she has is stopping two country sized scythes. Even if such a feat was effortless, this is like waay beyond everything she's ever done so far Cobalt herself has Class Z LS too and there's zero chance in my mind she can do anything of the sort. This feels like an absurd notion. I know LS is a large spectrum, but... come on

Radiation is also basically the weakest thing Cobalt does, she can straight up deconstruct stuff all around her, and especially if she's in danger the passive burn effect around her gets to the point where it just deconstructs anyone who gets close

Having science knowledge will come in handy here...

Being in the core of a star is way, WAY worse than just resisting being on it's surface though. The suns core for example is about 2,700x hotter than it's surface is, and javen can create significantly bigger and hotter stars than this, so make of that what you will I don't think cobalt makes ACTUAL stars with her moves, otherwise she'd be 4-C.

In the sun, the core would burn you to a crisp in about a femtosecond according to this and obviously a High 4-C star will be much quicker than this. A femtosecond is about enough time for light to travel the diameter of a bacteria cell, so yeah, if javen spawns one on top of them it's game over.

I know they can dodge, but at the same time the star would be so freaking huge that it'd be difficult not to miss, as i've mentioned earlier. Teleporting away is an option but that would only work for so long especially if asuna amps javen up with massively superior speed to them

I also still don't think it's in character to basically destroy the world and everyone on it by spawning a star right next to it and I think it's also a near impossibility Asuna would be capable of moving it far enough for that not to matter (I'm skeptical about it being moved at all). Plus if Cobalt goes to Hyperspace super fast because Javen's ap scan shatters her scanner, it won't matter anyway and she can use her astral projection to fight without worry of the stars (or really any of Javen's stuff) and most likely manage to win or at least get rid of Javen before Cobalt has to return. Destiny can also slow herself and Cobalt's perception so it's like Javen and Asuna move like snails so they should be more than able to react

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

I mainly ask the Javen Vs Destiny question because it may determine which 2v1 is more likely to occur.

Like, if Asuna/Javen and Cobalt/Destiny were split from their partners by a large distance, who could easier isolate the other side's partner to single them out and get rid of them?

I mean I said I believe Destiny would beat Javen 1v1, and I'm also sure Cobalt would too. It's not like it isn't close but isolating Asuna to a 1v2 is the most likely outcome based on everything here so far

 

[Rayfire]

More distance will make it easier for Cobalt to defend too. She can use her shields and whatnot but she could also use her Plutonium Hyperblade

Don't forget she'd still be within javen's stellar range though

No chance Class Z let's her do that, the best feat she has is stopping two country sized scythes. Even if such a feat was effortless, this is like waay beyond everything she's ever done so far Cobalt herself has Class Z LS too and there's zero chance in my mind she can do anything of the sort. This feels like an absurd notion. I know LS is a large spectrum, but... come on

Radiation is also basically the weakest thing Cobalt does, she can straight up deconstruct stuff all around her, and especially if she's in danger the passive burn effect around her gets to the point where it just deconstructs anyone who gets close

The feat actually got her pretty decently into Class Z lol, plus Class Y refers to larger planets like jupiter im pretty sure. Even if asuna can't do it, javen sure can

I don't think asuna & javen will ever need to get close though, im still confident the star strategy could work atm

I also still don't think it's in character to basically destroy the world and everyone on it by spawning a star right next to it and I think it's also a near impossibility Asuna would be capable of moving it far enough for that not to matter (I'm skeptical about it being moved at all). Plus if Cobalt goes to Hyperspace super fast because Javen's ap scan shatters her scanner, it won't matter anyway and she can use her astral projection to fight without worry of the stars (or really any of Javen's stuff) and most likely manage to win or at least get rid of Javen before Cobalt has to return. Destiny can also slow herself and Cobalt's perception so it's like Javen and Asuna move like snails so they should be more than able to react

Javen can do the same thing and presumably keep going as a spirit, though. If asuna teleports him and herself far away too then the fight would basically just go on forever, cause javen is a spirit and asuna can send out clones to fight for her in a battle of attrition similair to how Asuna vs Cobalt 2 ended

• Astral Projection (He can meditate and force his spirit outside of himself. He can also travel to the spirit realm by doing this)

How much can she slow her perception? Even if it's by 10x they'd still be perceived as 10x faster if asuna uses [Supercharge] for them both, so it might not matter much.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Don't forget she'd still be within javen's stellar range though

Yeah, and she'd just defend like normal.

The feat actually got her pretty decently into Class Z lol, plus Class Y refers to larger planets like jupiter im pretty sure. Even if asuna can't do it, javen sure can

There is still a substantial difference between countries and whole planets though, and as it stands, she has yet to move one. Plus you're saying she'd move it multiple lightyears to not be affected by Javen's star...

Through what method would Javen even move earth without just destroying it outright anyway? I think it's too far-fetched

I don't think asuna & javen will ever need to get close though, im still confident the star strategy could work atm

I'm not, although it's prolly their best wincon

Javen can do the same thing and presumably keep going as a spirit, though. If asuna teleports him and herself far away too then the fight would basically just go on forever, cause javen is a spirit and asuna can send out clones to fight for her in a battle of attrition similair to how Asuna vs Cobalt 2 ended

• Astral Projection (He can meditate and force his spirit outside of himself. He can also travel to the spirit realm by doing this)

How much can she slow her perception? Even if it's by 10x they'd still be perceived as 10x faster if asuna uses [Supercharge] for them both, so it might not matter much.

This doesn't imply he can continue to battle like that and Cobalt can still kill him as a spirit regardless. At some point, teleporting far away is probably just considered running away tbh. Cobalt is just going to Hyperspace, meanwhile Javen and Asuna would be going cosmic distances away from the battle and trying to snipe. Plus unlike Asuna vs Cobalt 2, Cobalt has far more clones and actually has multiple viable methods to win lol. Cobalt has her own portals and should be able to follow them if necessary too

10 times faster than a snail's pace isn't significant at all. Frankly, neither is a hundred plus Cobalt still has her own speed amps to stack on top of the perception in that case

I guess clarification from Leo would help a lot here though

 

[Rayfire]

Gtg but i will reply as soon as i can, i have more arguments to give

 

[Rayfire]

10 times faster than a snail's pace isn't significant at all. Frankly, neither is a hundred plus Cobalt still has her own speed amps to stack on top of the perception in that case

Before i go though, from how it's worded it doesn't sound like it would be nearly as effective on much faster opponents sense it's made clear its for comparable opponents. Plus it's only for a few seconds from their pov, so they won't have much time to execute a way to get around the corruption shields or anything, plus asuna will know when they are going to do something like spam attacks really quickly ahead of time with precog, so again she could riftway both herself and javen out of there and get a better angle of attack.

• Self-Perception Amplification (Destiny for a limited amount of time can slow her and any nearby allies' Perception to make previously comparable enemies look like they'd slowed down to the speed of a snail. However, as previously mentioned, this only works for a few seconds and needs to recharge after.)

Don't forget that asuna can do the same thing but much better with time magic, essentially freezing time and putting them on equal footing that way, which is why i believe she could take out destiny early especially if she isn't close to cobalt and is threatened by her.

It's also important to keep in mind that, while cobalt has at least some counter to the timestop, destiny obviously doesn't, at least from what i can tell from her profile. Asuna is likely to be more threatened by the latter because of their power, so i have a feeling that if she gets her time skill off she'll go for her first and hit her with a good 'ol erasure to the head, similair to what she tried to do against haruka, so i feel like if asuna uses time magic even once here, considering that cobalt won't actually be able to use anything to save here, plus the fact that she might not always be close to cobalt gives me the impression that it would take destiny out early, especially with asuna's speed amps in play

 

[Rayfire]

Through what method would Javen even move earth without just destroying it outright anyway? I think it's too far-fetched

You can always count on toon force defying physics

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Before i go though, from how it's worded it doesn't sound like it would be nearly as effective on much faster opponents sense it's made clear its for comparable opponents. Plus it's only for a few seconds from their pov, so they won't have much time to execute a way to get around the corruption shields or anything, plus asuna will know when they are going to do something like spam attacks really quickly ahead of time with precog, so again she could riftway both herself and javen out of there and get a better angle of attack.

• Self-Perception Amplification (Destiny for a limited amount of time can slow her and any nearby allies' Perception to make previously comparable enemies look like they'd slowed down to the speed of a snail. However, as previously mentioned, this only works for a few seconds and needs to recharge after.)

Don't forget that asuna can do the same thing but much better with time magic, essentially freezing time, which is why i believe she could take out destiny early especially if she isn't close to cobalt.

At ftl speeds they should be more than able, a few seconds might as well be hours destiny would have to be out of cobalt’s ability range for that to truly matter since her portals, like her other moves, do have a significant range. I doubt they’ll be that far apart at any point. Plus there’s stuff like her world chains and cobalts clones that are also a factor. If she’s close to even a single cobalt clone, she should be saved from time stop.

Also cobalt being capable of outright beating multiple enemies with precog is a point that should receive major focus because blood sea soldiers, as I mentioned in Asuna vs cobalt 2, have a similar type precog and STILL lost.

This matters way more than the last match too since this is the key of cobalt which actually accomplished that feat and not the key which would need to adapt to that point. She spawns in the match being capable of beating precog enemies

You can always count on toon force defying physics

Toon force huh…

Does Javen even have that caliber of toon force

Plus even if he does what stops cobalt from warping back she can return to places via hyperspace and this always consists of returning to earth

 

[SSB64]

Despite this likely being common knowledge here, I feel like I should say this, especially in regards to this matchup for anybody in the future who looks back on this matchup to view it. (If you're reading this and you're from the future, then hello. How's it going?)

Anyways, if a Winner cannot be determined, and a Stalemate would normally occur, then a Technical Winner will be determined via who can make more progress in regards to "defeating" the opponent (Think like a hit counter in boxing that plays a factor into the final score if a KO or TKO doesn't happen.)

 

[Javenplayz253]

Through what method would Javen even move earth without just destroying it outright anyway? I think it's too far-fetched

Easy!
Doing the Asura method!!!

Does Javen even have that caliber of toon force

Plus even if he does what stops cobalt from warping back she can return to places via hyperspace and this always consists of returning to earth

I mean He's done some insane crap before he can just imagine pushing it back. Or y'know using his pure Ls

Count on Asuna for that! She can easily use her playback magic to reverse time and get Cobalt before she even gets the chance!

 

[SSB64]

Count on Asuna for that! She can easily use her playback magic to reverse time and get Cobalt before she even gets the chance!

They know where Cobalt ends up from using her Hyperspace teleportation, so they travel back in time and have Javen punch full force where she'll end up to hit her before she can even react. Genius.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Count on Asuna for that! She can easily use her playback magic to reverse time and get Cobalt before she even gets the chance!

I doubt that’s going to work cobalt can just spam portals to get back and Asuna can only use playback so much and she can’t at all attack during that process. She’d just have advanced knowledge that cobalt would try to go back which is pretty much an instant thing. She’d be back on earth by the time Asuna would be able to intercept her

Plus other things might come up which playback would be more beneficial for.

They know where Cobalt ends up from using her Hyperspace teleportation, so they travel back in time and have Javen punch full force where she'll end up to hit her before she can even react. Genius.

There’s also the chance that cobalt just… stays for a while. No pressure to get out, she knows she’ll end up back on earth, so she might as well scan everything outside through astral projection before going back. This wouldn’t work because she’d easily stay in hyperspace longer than the ten seconds playback works for, and she wouldn’t even need prior knowledge or anything since that’s just normal for her

Not so genius

 

[SSB64]

I doubt that’s going to work cobalt can just spam portals to get back and Asuna can only use playback so much and she can’t at all attack during that process. She’d just have advanced knowledge that cobalt would try to go back which is pretty much an instant thing. She’d be back on earth by the time Asuna would be able to intercept her

Plus other things might come up which playback would be more beneficial for.

There’s also the chance that cobalt just… stays for a while. No pressure to get out, she knows she’ll end up back on earth, so she might as well scan everything outside through astral projection before going back. This wouldn’t work because she’d easily stay in hyperspace longer than the ten seconds playback works for, and she wouldn’t even need prior knowledge or anything since that’s just normal for her

Not so genius

Wait. Is this astral projection thing outside of time, and so she'd be perceiving this time rewind as if it's happening in a ball or something? And furthermore, would she be Acausal because of that?

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Wait. Is this astral projection thing outside of time, and so she'd be perceiving this time rewind as if it's happening in a ball or something? And furthermore, would she be Acausal because of that?

No she’d just project herself out of hyperspace as a phantom, I was saying that she’d stay in there long enough for the ten seconds of playback to be meaningless, and because Asuna can’t spam that cobalt can return to earth safely at her own pace

 

[SSB64]

No she’d just project herself out of hyperspace as a phantom, I was saying that she’d stay in there long enough for the ten seconds of playback to be meaningless, and because Asuna can’t spam that cobalt can return to earth safely at her own pace

Okay. So if Asuna were to use Playback while Cobalt projected herself into Hyperspace, Cobalt would still be rewound back to before she's done it? I just need to understand this since the power interactions matter here.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Okay. So if Asuna were to use Playback while Cobalt projected herself into Hyperspace, Cobalt would still be rewound back to before she's done it? I just need to understand this since the power interactions matter here.

She might be able to, but now that I think about it cobalt is going to plutonium hyperspace which similar to being a different universe, so I’m actually not sure if Asuna would be able to affect cobalt with it at that point since she’d be beyond her range. Riftways also can’t be used to enter hyperspace from the outside, so cobalt would be able to isolate herself successfully

It seems a bit like a waste anyway since she can’t just place herself next to cobalt during rewind and Javen would also be none the wiser about it, so it would be pretty hard to plan for it

Anyways, if a Winner cannot be determined, and a Stalemate would normally occur, then a Technical Winner will be determined via who can make more progress in regards to "defeating" the opponent (Think like a hit counter in boxing that plays a factor into the final score if a KO or TKO doesn't happen.)

In this case I think cobalt and destiny have the most wincons and would therefore be more likely to win. Cobalt already has the superior planning and has the most hax of all the fighters, but she also has up to a thousand clones which scale to her skills and can use most of her powers on their own and destiny has perception manip and her magic, plus willpower and reactive evolution to boot. Cobalt can save destiny from time stop and Javen’s star thing would still be super hard to pull off since cobalt is always going to want to be on earth, so she’d use hyperspace to return there every time. Generally all of their wincons, while decent, are just harder to pull off than the ones cobalt and destiny have and are very reliant on having superior range, which cobalt can counter through her portals and phantoms which Javen doesn’t seem to have reliable methods to attack. This would leave Asuna against hundreds of clones and destiny, who Javen could possibly handle, but considering destiny would also have said clones as backup I just don’t see it happening

 

[Rayfire]

In this case I think cobalt and destiny have the most wincons and would therefore be more likely to win. Cobalt already has the superior planning and has the most hax of all the fighters, but she also has up to a thousand clones which scale to her skills and can use most of her powers on their own and destiny has perception manip and her magic, plus willpower and reactive evolution to boot. Cobalt can save destiny from time stop and Javen’s star thing would still be super hard to pull off since cobalt is always going to want to be on earth, so she’d use hyperspace to return there every time. Generally all of their wincons, while decent, are just harder to pull off than the ones cobalt and destiny have and are very reliant on having superior range, which cobalt can counter through her portals and phantoms which Javen doesn’t seem to have reliable methods to attack. This would leave Asuna against hundreds of clones and destiny, who Javen could possibly handle, but considering destiny would also have said clones as backup I just don’t see it happening

Asuna also has portals cause riftways, if need be she can get herself and javen out of sticky situation which is similair to what the hyperspace gates offer for the opposing team

Cobalt won't be very useful to destiny if she decides to just stay on earth once it's out of the way though, which would make it way easier for javen and asuna to take her out.

Again her range is only planetary so thats a big disadvantage for her offensive abilities, especially considering she'd need to get past the corruption shields and hit them to do so, which will be difficult for asuna in particular considering she upscales considerably from her previous danmaku feats of dodging thousands of projectiles in this key. If cobalt just stays on earth no matter what asuna & javen will beat her via BFR since they threw it She can always astral project, but asuna can again always portal to a location where she can send a clone of herself to fight cobalt instead and from there it just comes down to mental endurance, which asuna in particular has a good shot of winning because her willpower is far above regular supernatural willpower, obviously. Destiny has infinite stamina but with asuna's time stop im confident she will kill her with [Erasure] eventually just like before, then it becomes a 2v1 as long as asuna keeps javen safe.

Stars aren't very hard to use though, especially once earth is out of the way, then asuna & javen won't really care about anything else in the solar system. Javen is also much stronger than his High 4-C base so the star thing should be much more potent as well

At ftl speeds they should be more than able, a few seconds might as well be hours destiny would have to be out of cobalt’s ability range for that to truly matter since her portals, like her other moves, do have a significant range. I doubt they’ll be that far apart at any point. Plus there’s stuff like her world chains and cobalts clones that are also a factor. If she’s close to even a single cobalt clone, she should be saved from time stop.

Even if that was the case, it isn't considering that asuna is likely to use her time stop as well, which if combined with her speed amps will make taking out destiny way easier, since even if cobalts moves are still active (obviously) she will be significantly faster. This scenario just puts them on equal footing and comes down to who pulls the trigger first.

There’s also the chance that cobalt just… stays for a while. No pressure to get out, she knows she’ll end up back on earth, so she might as well scan everything outside through astral projection before going back. This wouldn’t work because she’d easily stay in hyperspace longer than the ten seconds playback works for, and she wouldn’t even need prior knowledge or anything since that’s just normal for her

Not so genius

In this key for asuna it's actually longer than 10 seconds since her willpower and xp are higher, i didn't give a canon value lol, but it should still be long enough to go back to where cobalt was previously especially if she uses it early. Cobalt has dealt with people who can basically see the future, yeah, but if asuna keeps using it as soon as the cooldown wears off she'll definitely be able to come up with something to get her eventually, especially since once asuna tells javen what will happen, he will remember due to his acausality conditions.

She might be able to, but now that I think about it cobalt is going to plutonium hyperspace which similar to being a different universe, so I’m actually not sure if Asuna would be able to affect cobalt with it at that point since she’d be beyond her range. Riftways also can’t be used to enter hyperspace from the outside, so cobalt would be able to isolate herself successfully

Everything in the universe asuna would be in would be returned to a previous state, which is kind of how time travel normally works in fiction. If cobalt was once there in the past, then if asuna travels to the near past then she should be there