[R1M1] Dark Hearted vs Delta [GRACE]

[CathyEpic]

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Match Conditions

• All equipment up to 7-B is allowed
• Speed is equalized
• Location is a busy street in downtown Chicago
• Starting distance is 10 meters
• SBA for anything else

Voting

Character	Key	Attack Potency	Votes
Delta	Virtual Tournament Arc, 50% Power	63.82 Megatons of TNT	0
Dark Hearted	Monster	25 Megatons of TNT	3
Inconclusive			0

 

[CathyEpic]

What can Dark Hearted do against Delta's Paralysis Inducement and 1009.46x LS advantage?

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Okay, so not to complain or anything, but I do find it interesting how characters of the same tier can have lifting strengths so vastly different LOL

Normally martial arts can be used to defeat someone stronger than you, but with that difference in LS grapples will have no chance. Dark can't afford to get close, but considering Delta's primary attack method, Dark won't risk that anyway.

In order to counter, Dark can use his knowledge of another character to his advantage here. Due to being a former hero himself and having been briefed on the strengths and weaknesses of the S Class by Puppet master at the new Monster Association, he has a lot of knowledge on Tempest Arrow who fights similarly with lightning to Delta. it won't take long for him to adopt strategies set up for the potential chance of him encountering Alela at some point, and since Delta isn't as good with lightning as she is, Dark won't have as hard of a time as initially thought.

On the other hand., Delta isn't a ninja and probably fights differently too. Dark will have to count on dodges and his martial arts for a couple of minutes to alter his strategy if necessary. His minor fear manip should also put Delta off from attacking right away in a similar manner that it did with Okami since he has no resistance.

When he starts his offensive, Dark will rely on his shockwaves to attack from a medium range distance

 

[CathyEpic]

Okay, so not to complain or anything, but I do find it interesting how characters of the same tier can have lifting strengths so vastly different LOL

Tell me about it

In order to counter, Dark can use his knowledge of another character to his advantage here. Due to being a former hero himself and having been briefed on the strengths and weaknesses of the S Class by Puppet master at the new Monster Association, he has a lot of knowledge on Tempest Arrow who fights similarly with lightning to Delta. it won't take long for him to adopt strategies set up for the potential chance of him encountering Alela at some point, and since Delta isn't as good with lightning as she is, Dark won't have as hard of a time as initially thought.

On the other hand., Delta isn't a ninja and probably fights differently too. Dark will have to count on dodges and his martial arts for a couple of minutes to alter his strategy if necessary. His minor fear manip should also put Delta off from attacking right away in a similar manner that it did with Okami since he has no resistance.

Okay, while all of that's nice, Delta is going to be starting off with speed amps making it much harder for Dark to hit him, and you still haven't given a possible way for Dark to counter Delta's Paralysis Inducement.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Okay, while all of that's nice, Delta is going to be starting off with speed amps making it much harder for Dark to hit him, and you still haven't given a possible way for Dark to counter Delta's Paralysis Inducement.

I'm going with the assumption that Delta's paralysis will only work should he land a hit of his own (if it's an automatic paralysis lasting for hours that would be to op for this tourney), and even with speed amps it'll be difficult because:

1. Dark's fear manip will freeze Delta in place for at least a couple of seconds to start the fight, and even more so if they make eye contact, which gives Dark ample time to take refuge among the buildings. Even if Delta multiplies his speed tenfold the fear manip will still keep him from attacking right away
2. Afterimages will make it difficult for Delta to target him properly even without fear manip, giving Dark a double advantage right away. He'll start the fight with the afterimages and hide among the Chicago skyscrapers to avoid the deadly lightning.
3. If Dark immediately uses Dark Heart Quake he can get Delta off balance, and with the fear and afterimages, Dark can easily get his plans working.

Delta will be under the effect of Dark's passive fear manip like any other Monster or hero would be since he doesn't have resistance or even any supernatural willpower (which is what allows Okami to fight through it), and it will be in effect the entire fight. Delta will most likely second guess everything he thinks to do because of it. On the off chance that he gets so scared that he can't even move, Dark could catch him off guard with something like Dark Heart Fury Attack or Dark Heart Killer after moving through some of the buildings (or right away if he notices this upon the battle beginning). Delta doesn't seem to have many ways of detecting where Dark is either.

Regardless, paralysis isn't a slam dunk, since Dark can still avoid the lightning by using the surroundings and his afterimages + fear manip combo. He can also resort to Dark Heart Whirlwind if he finds himself without any way to dodge.

It's also worth mentioning that Dark can and will get stronger should Delta get angered at any point

 

[CathyEpic]

I'm going with the assumption that Delta's paralysis will only work should he land a hit of his own (if it's an automatic paralysis lasting for hours that would be to op for this tourney), and even with speed amps it'll be difficult because:

1. Dark's fear manip will freeze Delta in place for at least a couple of seconds to start the fight, and even more so if they make eye contact, which gives Dark ample time to take refuge among the buildings. Even if Delta multiplies his speed tenfold the fear manip will still keep him from attacking right away
2. Afterimages will make it difficult for Delta to target him properly even without fear manip, giving Dark a double advantage right away. He'll start the fight with the afterimages and hide among the Chicago skyscrapers to avoid the deadly lightning.
3. If Dark immediately uses Dark Heart Quake he can get Delta off balance, and with the fear and afterimages, Dark can easily get his plans working.

Delta will be under the effect of Dark's passive fear manip like any other Monster or hero would be since he doesn't have resistance or even any supernatural willpower (which is what allows Okami to fight through it), and it will be in effect the entire fight. Delta will most likely second guess everything he thinks to do because of it. On the off chance that he gets so scared that he can't even move, Dark could catch him off guard with something like Dark Heart Fury Attack or Dark Heart Killer after moving through some of the buildings (or right away if he notices this upon the battle beginning). Delta doesn't seem to have many ways of detecting where Dark is either.

Regardless, paralysis isn't a slam dunk, since Dark can still avoid the lightning by using the surroundings and his afterimages + fear manip combo. He can also resort to Dark Heart Whirlwind if he finds himself without any way to dodge.

It's also worth mentioning that Dark can and will get stronger should Delta get angered at any point

fear manip would definitely be able to hold Delta in place for a bit, but he can easily counter Dark's afterimage dodging by firing his electricity in a massive wave similar to how he dealt with a horde of zombie gingerbread men (yes, you read that correctly). Also, how much stronger can Dark Hearted grow? Delta does have a 2.55x AP advantage.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

fear manip would definitely be able to hold Delta in place for a bit, but he can easily counter Dark's afterimage dodging by firing his electricity in a massive wave similar to how he dealt with a horde of zombie gingerbread men (yes, you read that correctly).

That’s a good way to deal with afterimages for sure

Anyway Dark Hearted’s growth through rage eating is pretty slow but will increase depending on how much rage there is. He did fight someone who’s parents he murdered, so at that point he got a massive increase, but Delta doesn’t seem like the kind to get anywhere near that mad in a fight like this, so his growth will likely be minuscule unless he finds something to say or do which sets Delta off, but even frustration is enough for some kind of increase

The AP advantage makes it even more difficult for Dark to try to use martial arts in close combat, and the gap isn’t gonna close soon, on top of previously mentioned difficulties. Dark can still try to take advantage of fear manip to land a killing blow as soon as the chance arises

 

[CathyEpic]

Anyway Dark Hearted’s growth through rage eating is pretty slow but will increase depending on how much rage there is. He did fight someone who’s parents he murdered, so at that point he got a massive increase, but Delta doesn’t seem like the kind to get anywhere near that mad in a fight like this, so his growth will likely be minuscule unless he finds something to say or do which sets Delta off, but even frustration is enough for some kind of increase

Delta, like you said, doesn't typically get angry or frustrated during fights (mostly because in almost all of his fights, he curb stomped his opponent), so rage eating wouldn't help much.

The AP advantage makes it even more difficult for Dark to try to use martial arts in close combat, and the gap isn’t gonna close soon, on top of previously mentioned difficulties. Dark can still try to take advantage of fear manip to land a killing blow as soon as the chance arises

Trying to get close to Delta would basically be suicide for Dark because the second he gets close, Delta grapples, and he's over 1000x stronger in terms of LS.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Slightly off topic, but this fight is a lot more fun because Delta is a hero exactly like the kind that Dark Hearted would normally be fighting, so it’s been great imagining it!

Trying to get close to Delta would basically be suicide for Dark because the second he gets close, Delta grapples, and he's over 1000x stronger in terms of LS.

Yes, for this reason, Dark will keep his plan of using the vibrations of his martial art to attack.

On the other hand though, what’s stopping Dark from just getting behind him after the initial hiding strategy? Delta doesn’t have enhanced senses or extrasensory to detect him, and he may be able to end it just like that with Dark Heart Killer or Focused Hatred.

Also, if he’s desperate enough (I don’t think so since this battle is like a minute long so far), he can use Dark Heart Whirlwind as well which has dura neg due to vibrations and will turn his bones basically to dust if it lands

 

[CathyEpic]

On the other hand though, what’s stopping Dark from just getting behind him after the initial hiding strategy?

The passive electricity surrounding Delta when he uses over 5 percent of his power. This is especially true at 50%. Also his starting speed amps have a sort of hyperawareness effect on himself, so it would be hard for Dark to hide with Delta constantly on his *ss. Also, we've already established that Delta would get Dark with his wave of electricity the second he starts pulling his afterimage shenanigans, and this electricity wave would be one of Delta's stronger attacks, which have a high chance of causing paralysis on foes that don't have electricity resistance, which Dark doesn't.

 

[CathyEpic]

Slightly off topic, but this fight is a lot more fun because Delta is a hero exactly like the kind that Dark Hearted would normally be fighting, so it’s been great imagining it!

How so?

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

The passive electricity surrounding Delta when he uses over 5 percent of his power. This is especially true at 50%. Also his starting speed amps have a sort of hyperawareness effect on himself, so it would be hard for Dark to hide with Delta constantly on his *ss.

As a martial artist and former hero, he is definitely experienced in no-holds-barred kinds of fights, which this is shaping up to be. As long as Delta can't spam lightning waves, Dark should be fine, granted he still can't exactly approach him, making it even more difficult. He does still have ways to attack, as I have defined, though.

Also, we've already established that Delta would get Dark with his wave of electricity the second he starts pulling his afterimage shenanigans, and this electricity wave would be one of Delta's stronger attacks, which have a high chance of causing paralysis on foes that don't have electricity resistance, which Dark doesn't.

We also established that Dark's fear manip will hold Delta in place for a bit, and on top of that Dark Heart Quake will stagger him pretty good. On top of fear and the quake, Delta will need a decent time to recover before he can even start the wave attack, during which Dark can do pretty much whatever he wants to do. I believe that upon the initial quake, while Delta is staggered and fearful, Dark will use Dark Heart Stone Shot, casting rubble towards him like heavy shrapnel. With that move, he can attack without risking getting hurt by the passive electric ability.

If Delta can survive that, Dark will most likely eventually resort to Dark heart Whirlwind, especially if he sees the scope of Delta's move.

his electricity wave would be one of Delta's stronger attacks,

Speaking of this, how much effect does the location have on the battle? Downtown Chicago has a lot of humans (not to mention it specifically being a 'busy street' on top of this), and as a superhero, I'm assuming that it's in Delta's interest to protect them, and it sounds like his wave would get pretty destructive. will he still pull the trigger in this situation?

Dark Hearted is a pure Monster, so he wouldn't care at all what happens. As a member of the New Monster Association, it would actually be good for him to cause chaos, havoc, and as much general damage as possible as well.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

How so?

Well, he is part of a hero group and has otherworldly powers, so for all intents and purposes he might as well be an A or S Class of the New Hero Association

 

[CathyEpic]

We also established that Dark's fear manip will hold Delta in place for a bit, and on top of that Dark Heart Quake will stagger him pretty good. On top of fear and the quake, Delta will need a decent time to recover before he can even start the wave attack, during which Dark can do pretty much whatever he wants to do. I believe that upon the initial quake, while Delta is staggered and fearful, Dark will use Dark Heart Stone Shot, casting rubble towards him like heavy shrapnel. With that move, he can attack without risking getting hurt by the passive electric ability.

Dark has absolutely no prior knowledge. How would he know to keep his distance?

Speaking of this, how much effect does the location have on the battle? Downtown Chicago has a lot of humans (not to mention it specifically being a 'busy street' on top of this), and as a superhero, I'm assuming that it's in Delta's interest to protect them, and it sounds like his wave would get pretty destructive. will he still pull the trigger in this situation?

I should've specified the city is evacuated. There are still cars on the streets and such though.

 

[CathyEpic]

Well, he is part of a hero group and has otherworldly powers, so for all intents and purposes he might as well be an A or S Class of the New Hero Association

He's more the equivalent of B or A Class in Stick Gang.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Dark has absolutely no prior knowledge. How would he know to keep his distance?

It would be a bit strange to have a passive electric field that can’t be seen (it also came to my attention that the profile doesn’t say anything about the passive field at all either), so I’m assuming that all Dark needs to do is see it, since it would be foolish to charge into it blindly (thereby keeping distance). Dark also has enhanced senses and can tell what Delta is feeling, so he may be able to deduce what he might do just based on that

I should've specified the city is evacuated. There are still cars on the streets and such though.

Ah, yeah that makes more sense lol

Something also that hasn’t been mentioned yet is that Dark looks like he has much higher stamina, since Delta is listed as athletic and Dark is more around the superhuman range (even though I just listed it as ‘high’ for some reason ), monsters usually have naturally high stamina anyway

 

[CathyEpic]

It would be a bit strange to have a passive electric field that can’t be seen (it also came to my attention that the profile doesn’t say anything about the passive field at all either), so I’m assuming that all Dark needs to do is see it, since it would be foolish to charge into it blindly (thereby keeping distance). Dark also has enhanced senses and can tell what Delta is feeling, so he may be able to deduce what he might do just based on that

Wouldn't it be kind of hard for Dark to tell what Delta is feeling with him constantly moving over 3x faster than Dark?

Something also that hasn’t been mentioned yet is that Dark looks like he has much higher stamina, since Delta is listed as athletic and Dark is more around the superhuman range (even though I just listed it as ‘high’ for some reason ), monsters usually have naturally high stamina anyway

You said it yourself that this fight is only a minute or two long so far.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Wouldn't it be kind of hard for Dark to tell what Delta is feeling with him constantly moving over 3x faster than Dark?

Not entirely, Dark doesn’t need to keep his eyes on Delta for his enhanced senses to kick in, it works as long as they are around each other, so there’s not really a way for Delta to avoid it

Dark will use it in order to guess what Delta will do. Analytical prediction will also help him out since after this first minute or so of fighting he should understand Delta’s movements enough to dodge without needing to always resort to underhanded tactics (quake, afterimage, hiding in the buildings), and by predicting the movements he could dodge the attacks before Delta even shoots them. With 3 times speed it still cuts it close, but as long as Dark stays vigilant he’s gonna give himself a decent chance to find the opening he needs

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Bump

 

[CathyEpic]

Dark will use it in order to guess what Delta will do. Analytical prediction will also help him out since after this first minute or so of fighting he should understand Delta’s movements enough to dodge without needing to always resort to underhanded tactics (quake, afterimage, hiding in the buildings), and by predicting the movements he could dodge the attacks before Delta even shoots them. With 3 times speed it still cuts it close, but as long as Dark stays vigilant he’s gonna give himself a decent chance to find the opening he needs

The three times faster thing is a low ball. Amped Delta should be faster than that. Dark won't be able to dodge at all if Delta gets lucky and paralyzes Dark with the first electricity wave, leaving him completely open to attack. Delta still has a solid AP advantage so it would be hard for Dark to hurt him.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

Dark won't be able to dodge at all if Delta gets lucky and paralyzes Dark with the first electricity wave, leaving him completely open to attack. Delta still has a solid AP advantage so it would be hard for Dark to hurt him.

I think it depends on how big the electric waves are. If they are massive or something far larger than Dark himself, he won’t underestimate Delta at all (he probably already sees him like an S Class hero regardless at this point). If he feels that he’ll die, he won’t hesitate to use any of his moves, including his biggest one.

He won’t need to dodge any of the attacks if he pulls off Dark Heart Whirlwind, which will reflect the wave as well as send out dura neg martial arts vibrations (guaranteed to turn delta’s bones to dust upon contact), which would win the battle for him

On the other hand, if it misses or fails for whatever reason, Dark is effectively down for the count, since that’s his definitive last resort move. He’d resort to desperate but likely futile maneuvers like Dark Heart Fury Attack (and get grappled or shocked or both upon going close)

Could go either way tbh.

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

The three times faster thing is a low ball. Amped Delta should be faster than that.

How fast exactly is Delta?

Edit: it’s worth noting that Delta is still very much under the effects of fear manipulation, so even with the speed amps he won’t have it in him to attack right away. All of his moves for the whole fight will be delayed be induced fear and doubt. Combined with enhanced senses and analytical predicting, I think Dark can still very much dodge the wave.

 

[CathyEpic]

I'm starting to think Dark takes this...

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

I'm starting to think Dark takes this...

I’m still not so sure myself. How often can Delta shoot electric waves?

 

[CathyEpic]

I’m still not so sure myself. How often can Delta shoot electric waves?

I'd say every few seconds

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

So dark is going to have to rely on the above tactics to help him dodge these waves, and see if Delta tires out. Dark has the higher stamina, but Delta has speed amps and one hit in Dark virtually ends it.

But again, Dark has a good few things in his favor helping him avoid the waves

I think more input is needed to decide how this ends

 

[MintyBoi1]

Dark seems like he takes this with his fear manip, skill, senses, and tactics to counter Delta’s amps and aura. As long as he keeps his distance, he could overcome the AP and LS advantage. Delta would need a good level of luck to avoid all Dark can do and get in the hit/grab he needs. Voting Dark

 

[CathyEpic]

Dark seems like he takes this with his fear manip, skill, senses, and tactics to counter Delta’s amps and aura. As long as he keeps his distance, he could overcome the AP and LS advantage. Delta would need a good level of luck to avoid all Dark can do and get in the hit/grab he needs. Voting Dark

Counted

 

[CathyEpic]

Bump

 

[VeneficaAuthor]

I suppose I will vote Dark also

 

[CathyEpic]

Dark FRA

GEESE