R>F revision

[Likelytierzero]

Firstly, we use r>f to qualify a layer higher in the dimensional layer, the same as the mathematical dimension.

But I see that the gap between r>f and dimension is different.

For example, in real life, a character in a comic page is made of ink and written down on paper. All the materials used are made from 3D objects.
Even we use moutain to make a fiction by a huge electric drill. The character is still the same tier as we made in the comic page if the story is the same.
Because fiction from our viewpoint is data, we see it as data, a story, no matter if it's made in your head or in 12 dimensions.

Data has no weight; it is made from the relation of something it existed when we thought it existed.

So no matter how many dimensions there are in a story, it would still be the same for a higher existence view.

Example.
Fiction A has a god who creates a story in his mind that contains infinity d.
Fiction B has a god who creates a story in his mind, but the concept of dimension doesn't exist.

You can make your verse as strong as you want, but the gab would still be just data compared to you.

So r>f would qualify at least 1A to 0, depending on how many r>f are inside.



I am not great at English, so I can't convey my thoughts clearly.

 

[Alexander]

what in the world?and i can notice the bad english you have

 

[Likelytierzero]

what in the world?and i can notice the bad english you have

I am sorry for my english i will change it a bit.

 

[Fixxed]

See as fictional is just same as see as infinitesimall, we add one dimension if that dimensional line is infinity that will make it add more infinity or higher infinity, yeah it will make lower structure being see by the higher one as infinitesimall

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Reality-Fiction Transcendence

It is not uncommon in fiction for characters to view lesser realities as if they were fiction, in much the same way as a real world human would view fiction. Frequently that comes in the form of almighty author characters which can freely rewrite those lesser realities. The other way around...

vsbattles.fandom.com

I really hope you read ^this before posting this CRT.

Cliff-notes version: R>F won't grant anything by itself and even with narrative superiority or higher infinity, it will only grant one higher layer. E.g: if a character views a 4D (Low 2-C) universe as a fictional 2D portrait that can't even even perceive or comprehend the existence of the character then that said character will be 5D (Low 1-C) and nothing more.

 

[Likelytierzero]

Cliff-notes version: R>F won't grant anything by itself and even with narrative superiority or higher infinity, it will only grant one higher layer. E.g: if a character views a 4D (Low 2-C) universe as a fictional 2D portrait that can't even even perceive or comprehend the existence of the character then that said character will be 5D (Low 1-C) and nothing more.

Fiction is not 2D.

 

[Ionliosite]

Fiction is not 2D.

Sounds like cope

 

[Likelytierzero]

Sounds like cope

Most of this thread is me trying to describe that fiction isnt 2D ,even that fiction made in 2 dimensional place or 3 or higher it would be just a data. The quality or level of it would be same.

 

[CosmicWreck]

Most of this thread is me trying to describe that fiction isnt 2D ,even that fiction made in 2 dimensional place or 3 or higher it would be just a data. The quality or level of it would be same.

You're wrong. Just as energy has no set dimensionality, neither does fiction.

However, unlike energy fiction lacks dimensionality because it doesn't exist.

We similarly do not know how much energy 2D beings have because they don't exist in our universe.

You can thus replace the superiority to fiction with the words superiority to non-existence.

Of course, when the comparison is not to nothingness but the manipulation of 3d objects, this wiki takes that into consideration via either plot manipulation or unknown ratings.

 

[Likelytierzero]

You can thus replace the superiority to fiction with the words superiority to non-existence.

Of course, when the comparison is not to nothingness but the manipulation of 3d objects, this wiki takes that into consideration via either plot manipulation or unknown ratings.

This wiki is made for scaling fictional character, we use real world material like math science to measure power.

But there is some power ability that doesnt work in real life or work differently in real life for example, a character moving so fast but dont die from hitting air so we ignore it in some case.

For nothingness in comparision it actually undefinable smaller when compared to something but so many charactor can do manything. So we dont use it to qualify tier.

It different to R>F case that we really use it to qualify tier.

 

[KLOL506]

What the **** am I looking at

@DontTalkDT @Executor_N0 @Ultima_Reality @Planck69 Mind helping me decode whatever this distinguished gentleman is asking for in the OP? I'm too brain-damaged to understand what Tier 1 shithousery is being proposed here.

 

[DontTalkDT]

R>F can have various sizes depending on what the verse gives us evidence for. If the verse explains that the gap is as large as infinite levels of reality that could be done. However, we won't default to anything higher than 1 level of reality without such specific evidence, as not all fiction does see it that way.
cough Another reason we don't excessively extrapolate in fiction cough

 

[CosmicWreck]

This wiki is made for scaling fictional character, we use real world material like math science to measure power.

Math and science, yes. Real world material, not always, or we wouldn't use alephs and ordinals to describe the power of higher tiered entities.

But there is some power ability that doesnt work in real life or work differently in real life for example, a character moving so fast but dont die from hitting air so we ignore it in some case.

For nothingness in comparision it actually undefinable smaller when compared to something but so many charactor can do manything. So we dont use it to qualify tier.

Except we do. 1-A characters are dimensionless and I'm pretty sure higher dimensional characters are rated for manipulating void like continnums.

It's also not indefinable in lesser quality. That's why we use ordinals and alephs.

An increase in dimension= An increase in aleph.

It different to R>F case that we really use it to qualify tier.

In mathematics, higher and lower dimensions do not exist in the same physical space either, as our universe shows.

 

[Executor_N0]

I explained this before IIRC, but it never hurts to say it again.

Stuff like Reality Fiction and Reality Dream are metaphors. The difference between infinities, of the plane of existences, of higher and below realities, they are things that can't be described in an easy way within a single "scale", the general idea is that no matter what exists and how much it occupies of a certain level of reality can't affect what is above.

So saying that it's like the difference between numbered dimensions or stuff like comic books, dreams, and fiction, is just an abstract way of trying to explain what that difference is since it's something that can't be really experienced.

Comic books, for example, aren't 2D. It's a book made of 3D matter that occupies a non-finite 3D volume. What it's meant by "fiction" there, is merely the idea that the drawings are essentially 2D from our view so we can ignore the fact that it's in fact 3D and think of it as 2D and try to get the general idea about it. It's the "abstract idea" of the thing instead of the thing itself.

The general idea of Reality and Fiction can be depicted in many ways. Can be used as a metaphor for one level of reality, or even infinity as fiction might be able to include many layers within itself abstracting the very idea that reality fiction difference is. After all, it's not like someone would say that a book with just plain text is 2D like they would do with a comic book, the point is just trying to point out what that difference might feel like, after all, everything about that is just a metaphor.

So what really matters is the application in the series itself, not the most absolute idea that the metaphor can be used to describe. This is a problem I see very often because people are too quick to jump into that metaphor without even considering what it really means inside the fiction. Its presence can be used as supplementary evidence for it, but it needs to have some kind of inner working that validates the qualitative difference and how one is "above" the other.

So, as I often say, if it exists and is valid in a work, it should be very clear within the contents of the work (Even if it goes beyond the scope of what can be normally thought of as the work). So the very idea of reality and fiction difference isn't really important, but what the work itself does with that and what is the scope of that metaphor in the work.

 

[Likelytierzero]

R>F can have various sizes depending on what the verse gives us evidence for. If the verse explains that the gap is as large as infinite levels of reality that could be done. However, we won't default to anything higher than 1 level of reality without such specific evidence, as not all fiction does see it that way.
cough Another reason we don't excessively extrapolate in fiction cough

The specific evidence should be how solid R>F in that verse is,If it really show solid evidence of R>F it should be 1A in gap.

How big inside fiction should not effect the real world.

 

[Likelytierzero]

Comic books, for example, aren't 2D. It's a book made of 3D matter that occupies a non-finite 3D volume. What it's meant by "fiction" there, is merely the idea that the drawings are essentially 2D from our view so we can ignore the fact that it's in fact 3D and think of it as 2D and try to get the general idea about it. It's the "abstract idea" of the thing instead of the thing itself.

As i explain that no matter what thing being used to made the fiction,we see it as data or your word abstract idea.

The general idea of Reality and Fiction can be depicted in many ways. Can be used as a metaphor for one level of reality, or even infinity as fiction might be able to include many layers within itself abstracting the very idea that reality fiction difference is. After all, it's not like someone would say that a book with just plain text is 2D like they would do with a comic book, the point is just trying to point out what that difference might feel like, after all, everything about that is just a metaphor.

Yes, if it goes that way.

If a verse use metaphor as 'feel like comic page,etc' to explain the gab it should be just 1 layer a layer higher in dimensional, if lowball.

But the thing we should be use to qualify 1A(only for R>F case) should be how solid that R>F is not how big inside the fiction.

 

[Likelytierzero]

Bump

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Bump

Literally two knowledgeable staff members have clearly explained why R>F doesn't grant you the 1-A tier or higher but you're clearly arguing from belief, so I won't continue to waste my time here.

 

[Likelytierzero]

Literally two knowledgeable staff members have clearly explained why R>F doesn't grant you the 1-A tier or higher but you're clearly arguing from belief, so I won't continue to waste my time here.

That is clearly biased. I think i make a good point.

1. R>F and dimension is clearly different thing.
2. No matter how big or small inside fiction, it can't effect real world.

 

[LuciferX]

True.

 

[Ringki_64]

 

[Ringki_64]

well the difference is
us viewing fiction as fiction is because it doesnt exist, there is nothing truly 2d in our universe and they dont exist and we just use (any form of fiction) as a medium for our imagination so how much ever dimensions a said fictional chrs are, we are still 3d

but for a fictional chr having R>F transcendence
the higher dimensional entity is real as well as the lower entity

if we are gonna say lower dimensional entity isnt real then all chrs are tier 1 or tier 0 as everyone who has a thought process can imagine a story like we do

so yea
if a entity views a 4d being as fiction then he is most probably 5d and also isnt in tier 0 or tier 1a

hope it helps

 

[LuciferX]

But logically, it should be Tier 0 or High 1-A. smh.

 

[CosmicWreck]

But logically, it should be Tier 0 or High 1-A. smh.

Not really. The characters views the realities of a certain scale as fiction. They are not literally fiction. It's a subjective thing, to give it an objective scaling would usually contradict the plot heavily.

 

[Likelytierzero]

well the difference is
us viewing fiction as fiction is because it doesnt exist, there is nothing truly 2d in our universe and they dont exist and we just use (any form of fiction) as a medium for our imagination so how much ever dimensions a said fictional chrs are, we are still 3d

You still consider fiction to be 2D, which is not true. I already explained it, and Executor_N0 also explained it and called it an abstract idea.

but for a fictional chr having R>F transcendence
the higher dimensional entity is real as well as the lower entity

You can't use your viewpoint to consider which character is more real; we use character viewpoint to consider how real another character is.

This wiki is based on reality-based logic to consider how big a verse is. And I see a better way to make more sense about tiering qualifiers, which is why I made this thread.

if we are gonna say lower dimensional entity isnt real then all chrs are tier 1 or tier 0 as everyone who has a thought process can imagine a story like we do

so yea
if a entity views a 4d being as fiction then he is most probably 5d and also isnt in tier 0 or tier 1a

This wiki has a base point to consider tier; we usually use 3D as the base.

My proposal will not make every character tier 1.

You should think again with your point.
I consider r>f to be outer.
You consider r>f to be higher-dimensional.
So why doesn't everyone who can imagine become higher-dimensional? It's because we have a base point.

My proposal will not cause contradict it's just increase the gap of r>f.

 

[Ringki_64]

You still consider fiction to be 2D, which is not true. I already explained it, and Executor_N0 also explained it and called it an abstract idea.

which is what i said
i said its a medium to fuel our imagination

You can't use your viewpoint to consider which character is more real; we use character viewpoint to consider how real another character is.

what i meant is that, you cant use us viewing fiction and compare it chrs having R>F

You should think again with your point.
I consider r>f to be outer.
You consider r>f to be higher-dimensional.
So why doesn't everyone who can imagine become higher-dimensional? It's because we have a base point.

My proposal will not cause contradict it's just increase the gap of r>f.

again as i said, that said base point can be altered with your logic


and also shouldnt this be in the discussion crt first?

after all this is a pretty big topic

and also your point is being a subjective one with no clear points made


unlike us viewing fiction
there is a difference



lets say chr a views chr b as fiction, then chr a is infinitely stronger than chr b but this doesnt mean chr b isnt real (unlike how we view fiction ) and lets say chr a is viewed as fiction by chr c? then what rank would chr c be if chr a is either high 1a or 0 and what tier would be chr d who views chr c as fiction?

but this gap can be filled with our current system so yes, i disagree with op


and btw i think this should be closed and first discussed in a discussion thread

 

[Catzlaflame]

Fiction is not 2D.

Genshin players celebrating rn

 

[Likelytierzero]

which is what i said
i said its a medium to fuel our imagination

Ok you really understand that they are different thing. But you still use same gap, you cant use dimensional gap method with r>f because it is completely different.

You said 2D is not real in real life ,how did you know that,even if it isn't real in real life but it is still real in math.

what i meant is that, you cant use us viewing fiction and compare it chrs having R>F

You said "the higher dimensional entity is real as well as the lower entity"
We dont use our viewponit to consider the two entities. But we use the different of two entities or viewpoint of an entity see another entity.

The two entities are equally real in our view ,but it's not for the entities.

again as i said, that said base point can be altered with your logic

there is no different between current tiering system and my proposal about base point thing.

For example,
I consider r>f to be outer.
You said everone would be tier 1.
You consider r>f to be higher-dimensional.
So everyone who can imagine a story become higher-dimensional?

You can see current tiering system have base point.

lets say chr a views chr b as fiction, then chr a is infinitely stronger than chr b but this doesnt mean chr b isnt real (unlike how we view fiction ) and lets say chr a is viewed as fiction by chr c? then what rank would chr c be if chr a is either high 1a or 0 and what tier would be chr d who views chr c as fiction?

Character b is not real in character a view.
Character b is around tier 11-low1A(because you dont give enough information)
Character a is 1A(above character b cosmology)
Character c is high1A(above character b cosmology)

So where is the base point? It is depend on how the fiction tell if the fiction focus on character b story, so character b is the base point.

and also your point is being a subjective one with no clear points made

This wiki is also subjective one where they try to make it make sense as much as possible.I'm just wishing for it to make more sense.

 

[Ringki_64]

Ok you really understand that they are different thing. But you still use same gap, you cant use dimensional gap method with r>f because it is completely different.

You said 2D is not real in real life ,how did you know that,even if it isn't real in real life but it is still real in math.

You said "the higher dimensional entity is real as well as the lower entity"
We dont use our viewponit to consider the two entities. But we use the different of two entities or viewpoint of an entity see another entity.

The two entities are equally real in our view ,but it's not for the entities.

there is no different between current tiering system and my proposal about base point thing.

For example,
I consider r>f to be outer.
You said everone would be tier 1.
You consider r>f to be higher-dimensional.
So everyone who can imagine a story become higher-dimensional?

You can see current tiering system have base point.

Character b is not real in character a view.
Character b is around tier 11-low1A(because you dont give enough information)
Character a is 1A(above character b cosmology)
Character c is high1A(above character b cosmology)

So where is the base point? It is depend on how the fiction tell if the fiction focus on character b story, so character b is the base point.

This wiki is also subjective one where they try to make it make sense as much as possible.I'm just wishing for it to make more sense.

Ye I would reply later, gonna sleep

 

[Tarang123]

1. R>F and dimension is clearly different thing.

We view 2D stuff as fiction...

2. No matter how big or small inside fiction, it can't effect real world.

The same applies to geometric dimensions

 

[Tarang123]

If I may just ask, but what if a verse equates its dimensions to R>F transcendences to the point of even considering them levels of physics and similar stuff like that? Would that also scale to 1A?

 

[Ringki_64]

Ok you really understand that they are different thing. But you still use same gap, you cant use dimensional gap method with r>f because it is completely different.

You said 2D is not real in real life ,how did you know that,even if it isn't real in real life but it is still real in math.

2d is just a theoretical subject and it truly doesnt exist in our world, it is possible in maths because we just assumed something can exist with just two coordinates instead of three

the reason we are using a dimensional gap is because " a chr having R>F, is more than infinitely more powerful than the lower dimensional chr, and these r>f chrs are said to be transcendent and above that said plane of existence , so we use use dimensional gap and why it is only one above the lower dimensional gap is because the lower d chrs arent really 2d even if the hde chr views it as such

You said "the higher dimensional entity is real as well as the lower entity"
We dont use our viewponit to consider the two entities. But we use the different of two entities or viewpoint of an entity see another entity.

i dont get your point but us using the view point of said entity is ******** , for eg: rimuru, for him there is no rival in his verse, he is said to be omnipotent and can do anything in his verse,

if we are gonna use his view point then he would be tier 0 but if we use our viewpoint then he would be 2a as thats what his verse's cosmology amount to

The two entities are equally real in our view ,but it's not for the entities.

they are not real in our view
this seems like a cope

nothing is real in our view, where as a higher dimensional existence is real as well as the lower entity

For example,
I consider r>f to be outer.
You said everone would be tier 1.
You consider r>f to be higher-dimensional.
So everyone who can imagine a story become higher-dimensional?

and many major verses consider r>f transcendence as a dimensional gap too like fate

Character b is not real in character a view.
Character b is around tier 11-low1A(because you dont give enough information)
Character a is 1A(above character b cosmology)
Character c is high1A(above character b cosmology)

So where is the base point? It is depend on how the fiction tell if the fiction focus on character b story, so character b is the base point.

This wiki is also subjective one where they try to make it make sense as much as possible.I'm just wishing for it to make more sense.

wtf? ofc chr b is real in chr a view, what do you mean? tf? chr a knows chr b is real and plays god, he does know they are real. if it isnt then as i said before, all the chr with a thought process would be tier 1


and this is the problem
chr A would be tier high 1a until chr c gets introduced

meaning the power lvl would be inconsistent and people might well as not use vsbw


this wiki already makes sense, this brings confusion and a broken logic


this will be my last post in this thread regarding op, and this should be closed and first be discussed in the discussion thread

 

[LuciferX]

We view 2D stuff as fiction...

But Fiction isn't 2D depend on what's the equiverse.

The same applies to geometric dimensions

The difference between R>F >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>dimensions.

 

[Tarang123]

The difference between R>F >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>dimensions.

Why would it be?

 

[LuciferX]

Why would it be?

Cuz someone has R>F over our reality can view both 3d or 5d or infinite d or even a Tier 0 character as fiction if it has actual R>F.

 

[Tarang123]

Cuz someone has R>F over our reality can view both 3d or 5d or infinite d or even a Tier 0 character as fiction if it has actual R>F.

But if they're specifically above a 4D universe and view that as fiction, why would that be any higher than just 5D?

 

[LuciferX]

But if they're specifically above a 4D universe and view that as fiction, why would that be any higher than just 5D?

Because if we take R>F analogy as literal, higher being can view any kind of being as fiction no matter how complex the dimensionality is.

For example, from our real world, we can see comic book universes as fiction. there are 3d people exist inside the fiction and also higher dimensional beings but still fiction to us. Captian America is 3d being in his fictional universe and we see him as fiction. same for TOAA Low 1-A being. that's how R>F is >>>>>>>>>>

 

[LuciferX]

It's all about POV lol.

 

[CosmicWreck]

Because if we take R>F analogy as literal, higher being can view any kind of being as fiction no matter how complex the dimensionality is.

For example, from our real world, we can see comic book universes as fiction. there are 3d people exist inside the fiction and also higher dimensional beings but still fiction to us. Captian America is 3d being in his fictional universe and we see him as fiction. same for TOAA Low 1-A being. that's how R>F is >>>>>>>>>>

Except unlike with us they aren't actually fictional, but people and entities with clearly defined limitations along with rules of existence and though potentially the difference could be that great, rarely is there evidence to support this.

It wouldn't really make sense to limit the number of dimensions to Aleph 2 number of dimensions either.

We can extend the structures embodied to large cardinals (since logically these structures also exist in fiction/imagination/possibilities) which go anywhere from High 1-A to Tier 0 in size which is obviously absurd when considering a character with only one level transcendence or manipulating a single Low 1-C structure.

 

[Tarang123]

Because if we take R>F analogy as literal, higher being can view any kind of being as fiction no matter how complex the dimensionality is.

In other words, you're equating a R>F transcendence to how we currently treat things like being beyond the concept of dimensions?