• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Quetzalcoatl upgrade

Creaturemaster971

Creaturemaster971

4,463
1,092
So, in some circles of Aztec mythology, the Centzon Mimixcoa were believed to be four-hundred godly, celestial serpents, each of whom formed one of the stars in the northern sky.

Mixcoatl, father of Quetzalcoatl, ambushed and killed all of them with help from his four siblings, which I think would be at least a Solar System level feat for him.

He was later betrayed and killed in battle by his brothers Apanecatl, Zolton, and Cuilton

Who were themselves slaughtered by an enraged Quetzalcoatl when he discovered what had befallen his father.

I feel like this (not to mention the fact that he was almost always considered superior to Huitzilopochtli) would warrant a Solar System level tier for Quetzy, if not Multi-Solar System, considering that he's superior to someone who helped destroy 400 stars. Or we could lowball it and say at least Star level+
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
I read in a book about ancient mythology, and it said he created the universe.
Click to expand...
Would like to see a source on that if you can. Also, how large did the Aztecs think the universe was?
 
However, you should ask Matthew Schroeder to comment here.
 
I heard Kukulkan created the universe in some myths, but not sure about Quetzalcoatl.

I'm fine with the upgrade, but I would like a source on the feat. Being superior to Huitzilopochtli should be enough for Tier 4, at least.
 
I'll see what I can find.

If this works, it could scale to some potential profiles I'd be interested in.

Tezcatlipoca (Quetzy's equal in combat), Cipactli and Chalchiuhtlicue (Each needed Quetzy and Tez working together to take down), and Itzpapalotl (Quetzy and Tez were too scared to provoke her, even when allied with each other)
 
The wikipedia article for Mixcoatl details his feat and his brothers' feat, but seems to end before Quetzy's rampage.

The full story is present within a book I do not currently have legal access to.
 
Jordanbairdcreaturemaster97 said:
Necro, but I feel like I should also bring up that Quetz was seen as a god of wind, traveled to the Underworld, had a Nahual who governed death and lightning, created the human race from his blood and Underworld stuff, and created the world and maybe other worlds from Cipactli's corpse.
So Air Manipulation, Dimensional Travel, Death Manipulation, Electricity Manipulation, Life Manipulation, Transmutation, and Creation?
Click to expand...
Can you post a source on this, please?
 
Would like to see a source on that if you can. Also, how large did the Aztecs think the universe was?

The Aztecs thought the universe was infinite, and that the Earth was an infinitely big nightmare beast that several gods tried to kill, but only managed to half kill.
 
Would like to see a source on that if you can. Also, how large did the Aztecs think the universe was?

The Aztecs thought the universe was infinite, and that the Earth was an infinitely big nightmare beast that several gods tried to kill, but only managed to half kill.

That's false, the real Aztec cosmology is.. I'd better explain.

The basic structure of the Mexica universe is composed of three parts: the earth, the sky and the underworld.

The Earth: Tlalticpac, the horizontal region of the universe.

Tlalticpac is a square extension surrounded by Ateotl, "divine water", which on its edges rises like a great wall that unites it with the heavens, and defined by the four cardinal points or four winds and the forces that emanate from them, and sustained by an axis at the center where those forces converge.

East: Dominated by Tlaloc, god of rain, so his domains were fertile and there was abundance in all the crops. It was the male side, his symbol the reed.

West: Under the protection of Quetzalcoatl, where the evening star, Venus, resided. The female side was represented by the color white and the symbol house.

South: It corresponded to Huitzilopochtli with the color blue, place of life and the symbol rabbit.

North: Ruled by Tezcatlipoca with the color black, place of death and the flint knife as symbol.

Center: Ruled by Huehuetéotl-Xiuhtecuhtli. It was the point of union of the earth and the sky, of the four directions of the world: superior world, inferior world, celestial waters and the winds. Thus, the human organism is inserted in the cosmos and forms part of the five elements together with air, earth, fire and water.

Literally Tlalticpac means "on the earth", and this is a region where the gods adorn it with their "doing" and "undoing". Earth and water, mountains and plains, trees and flowers, animals and men, are born, change and disappear. Here nothing is eternal, everything is frugal. Tlalticpac, in his philosophical conception is transitory and must end.

The Heavens

1 Ilhuicatl Meztli "Where the Moon Moves" First immediate sky above the earth. This is where the moon (Meztli) and the clouds move. It is inhabited by: Tlazolteotl, God of filth. Tlaloc, who pierces the belly of the cloud. Ehecatl, who makes the clouds walk.

2 Cintlalco "Where the stars move" The stars run divided into two armies: Centzon Mimixcoa: The Four Hundred North. Centzon Huitzinahua: The four hundred south. They are also found: Citlaltonac, the Milky Way. Tezcatlipoca Ocelotl, the Big Bear. Citlaxonecuilly, the smaller bear. Colotl, the constellation of Scorpio.

3 Ilhuicatl Tonatiuh "Here Tonatiuh, the Sun, moves on his way from the land of light to his house in the West to immerse himself in the underworld.

4 Ilhuicatl Huitztla "The sky of the big star" Citlapol or Hey Citlallin (Venus), the "big, biggest and brightest star", also lives here: Tlahuilcalpantecuhtli: God of the morning or light, lord of the dawn, invocation of Quetzalcoatl, associated with Venus as the morning star. Huixtocíhuatl or Uixtociuatl, goddess of salt.

5 Ilhuicatl Mamoloaco "Sinking or Drilling Sky" Place of comets, wandering stars. Citallin-popoca, "Stars that smoke" Citlalmine, when they have a tail. Xihuitl, when they have hair.

6 Yayauhco "Green-black space" where the night is born and spreads out. Here Tezcatlipoca Yohualli, the enemy, exercises his powers.

7 Ilhuicatl Xoxouhqui "Blue sky" The one that shows its face in the daytime. Scope of Huitzilipochtli, the blue hummingbird on the left

8 Iztlacoliuhqui "Where the obsidian knives creak." Place of storms. Here appears Tlaloc but dominated by the deity Iztlacoliuhqui, "Crooked Knife", God of the cold, variant of Tezcatlipoca.


9 Iztla "Target region"

10 Cozauhquitla "Region of yellow"

11 Yayauhtla "Here the sun shows its red face at twilight.

12 Teteoca "Where the gods dwell" Eminently divine space, where deities remain and project themselves to be elsewhere. It is the place where the gods take on faces, mask themselves to be others as well as to remain themselves. Here they are born and reborn and feed as eternal and mutant beings.

13 Omeyoca "Place of Duality" Ometeotl residence, Lord of Duality. The principle that generates everything that exists is conceived. The main god begets himself. Ometeotl, in his feminine-male duality, becomes the creative couple: Ometecuhtli and Omecihuatl, lord and lady of Duality. This creative couple, origin of all the generation of gods and of the creation of the universe also has the names of Tonacatecuhtli and Tonacacihuatl, "lord and lady of our flesh". Based on these names, some versions consider that the Omeyocan is at the same time the Tamoanchan "place of our origin", in which we find the tree with breasts, a wet nurse who breastfed the beings before they were born. It is in the Tamoanchan where the souls of men were generated. Because fire is considered to be an element that generates life, some traditions place Huehuetéotl-Xiuhtecuhtli, the old god of fire, in this heaven.

The way of dying, and not the actions of life, determined the type of posthumous existence that the individual would have. The warriors, the women who died in childbirth, the children, the drowned and all those who died in some way that linked them to the divine, had different destinies from those who ended their life in any way.

While the first had access to paradises, the others, those in which the gods intervene little or not at all to endow the dead with a further development of the soul and a subsequent enjoyment, have to face new and greater obstacles that arise in the beyond and that to the extent of overcoming them, achieve the process of disintegration of their material being to enter nothingness, understood as a zone of rest, at the bottom of the underworld.

Paradises

There were three of them, the first two being the eastern and western countries, facing east and west respectively. The third was located to the south.

1 Tonatiuhcha. "The House of the Sun" Located towards the east. This is where the dead in battle and all those immolated under the sun worship come to. The place is covered by white, yellow and red flowers; birds with plumage of these same colours abound here. Here the eagle-men and the tiger-men perform mock warfare.

Every four years, they descend to Tlalticpac, the land, transformed into hummingbirds and other birds of beautiful plumage to liberate the nectar from the flowers, emit songs and communicate with their resplendent presence the solar glories.

They led a privileged existence as chosen members of the solar retinue.

2 Cincalco "place of the house of corn" o

Cihuatlampa "place of women" Located to the west.

All those who die in their first birth giving the world a possible warrior, are deified and called Cihuateteo "divine women". Their labor is appreciated as if it were a warrior feat, and for giving their life to the new being, they are ennobled and are also called Cihuapipiltin "noble women".

Once the child is born and she dies, the midwife washes her body with water from the sacred springs, dresses her in her best attire, and carried by her husband in a procession of actors representing warriors, with shields and spears, they bury her at sunset in a temple destined to the solar cult, the relatives remain there four days in a row, keeping watch to prevent the body from being stolen.

After the four days, the woman's spirit dwells in the west, in Cincalco.

They will come down to earth every 52 years, motivated by the nostalgia of their children. Because they are bare and have claws instead of hands and feet, children see them and either die on impact or are transformed into mice. That is why mothers cover their children with large masks of maguey sticks in order not to be recognized and to scare them away.

Although their presence on earth is harmful to children and young people, they are considered kind goddesses whose warrior-like work at the side of the sun is highly esteemed by human beings. They are also associated with the food that they eat in Concalco, the House of Corn.

3 Tlaloca "Tlaloc's Place" Located to the south. The enclosure is presided over by Tlaloc, God of rain, and his consort Chalchihuitlicue, "the one with the emerald skirts". It is a place of abundant greenery, birth of springs, rivers and cold or hot waters. Fruits, vegetables, corn, beans, and especially chia (with its seeds they made several medicines, nutritional compounds and even paintings) are abundant.

In the foliage flutters a plethora of birds with beautiful plumage, which with their song added to the croaking of the frogs vitalized Tlaloc to shed measured and constant rains.

This is where the dead come to drown, due to lightning or leprosy, since these diseases are caused by Tlaloc himself, when he chooses those he wants to have in his paradise.

It is said that the drowned are victims of Ahuitzotl, the water monster.

When they are buried there is no need to give them food, jewels or weapons, just a stick, their forehead painted blue so that they can recognize him, because in Tlalocan they will not lack anything and they will not suffer any hardship. Underworld

Opposite to the paradisiacal places, there was the underworld, which could receive three different denominations: Mictlan, "Place of the Dead"; Ximoayan, "Place of the Flesh"; and Chicunauhmictla, "Place of the Nine Fords of the Underworld" referring to the structure composed of nine vertical, descending states:

1 Apanohuaia "Where the river is passed" When men die, they go down to an underground place on the bank of a mighty river. To cross it, they had to ride a dog, so to make it easier for them to cross the flowing waters, they were often buried with a dog or dog bones.

This underworld was also called Itzcuintlan or Place of Dogs.

2 Tepectli Monanamictla "Place where the hills collided with each other." Also called "Tepeme Monamictia." "Hills that fight." Two great mountains attract and repel each other. The dead try to cross in time and quickly so as not to be trapped and crushed.

3 Iztepetl "Razor Hill" Cutting flints threaten the deceased travelers.

4 Itzeecaya "Place where the razor wind or icy wind blows" From here the north winds blow away the crops and bring down the houses. This place is also known as Cehuecayan because it is divided into two rooms, and snow always falls on one of its parts.

5 Paniecatlacaya "Place where bodies float like flags" The site has no gravity and the deaths are at the mercy of the winds. As soon as they come out, they return them or carry them around, until they finally come out for the next test.

6 Temiminaloya "A god who masters error appropriates the wrong arrows of warriors and with them stalks the dead by bleeding them.

7 Theocoyolcualoya "Where the beasts devoured hearts" Also called Teocoylehualoyan "Place where a jaguar feeds on hearts".

8 Yzmictlan Apochcaloca "Where he goes blind in the path of the fog" Some say this place is the Apanhuiayo "Black Water Lagoon". The dead already completely fleshless, conquerors of the previous obstacles, find their tonalli (soul) freed from the body, from matter.

9 Chicunamictla "Hall of Death or Eternal Rest" Ruled by Mictlantecuhtli and the dark Mictlancihuatl, "the lord and lady of the place of the dead". Entering its threshold, it is necessary to overcome the last obstacle, the section called Chiconauhhapan, an extension of nine waters. Once crossed, the deceased ceases to suffer; he is the decanter; the soul is liberated.

Some versions do not situate this passage as the lowest of the floors of the underworld, but rather it is placed to the north.
 
Would like to see a source on that if you can. Also, how large did the Aztecs think the universe was?

Idk it was just a children's mythology book, so it might be unreliable.
 
@Elshaddai777

Thank you for the explanation.

So how do you think that this would translate into our Tiering System?
 
Antvasima said:
@Elshaddai777

Thank you for the explanation.

So how do you think that this would translate into our Tiering System?
Click to expand...
Sorry for the delay, the level would be about 4B although it seems to be higher but first I would need to check my files which is not possible unfortunately because my computer is being repaired and well it takes about 3 weeks so I have to use my phone.

Pd: although I can make an extensive investigation on the 13th heaven which is the one that confuses me and it is for this that I said that it seems to be higher possibly above [Level 4] if nothing relevant is found it would be only 4B
 
Okay. Thank you for the evaluation. What are the current tiers for Aztec mythology, and would you be willing to improve on our profiles for this, including possible explanation sections?
 
Antvasima said:
Okay. Thank you for the evaluation. What are the current tiers for Aztec mythology, and would you be willing to improve on our profiles for this, including possible explanation sections?
Click to expand...
Hmm.Well, on the current levels I would say that they are very badly made, the so-called 4 tezcatlipoca are comparable to each other and should be 4B or at least high 4C, because [Quetzalcoatl] and [Tezcatlipoca] together created the universe by defeating [Cipactli], a [Primordial and Cosmic Beast], which had 18 bodies from which they created the [Cosmos]. And the last thing you mentioned, if I'm willing to help.
 
Okay. If you write a blog post draft to which you copy-paste the source code for the current Aztec mythology profiles that you wish to improve on, and then make adjustments to give better justifications/explanations for the statistics, and then post a link to the blog as a suggestion here, so we can try to evaluate it, that would be appreciated.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

DBZ: AP Scaling Update - Post Frieza Upgrade
2
Replies
49
Views
3K
Jaakor48
Half_Shiny
Skul Dark Mirror/Mythology pack massive upgrade (4-A)
Replies
29
Views
2K
Half_Shiny
Half_Shiny
Oliver_de_jesus
Revision The Admin/Romeo's profile
Replies
19
Views
1K
Oliver_de_jesus
Oliver_de_jesus
Final Fantasy XIII & Type-0 Additions Revision: Mythology of 'Cie
2
Replies
50
Views
3K
Zer00Negativo
Zer00Negativo
MountainWine
Ji Ning’s Zifu Disciple Range Upgrade
Replies
8
Views
802
MountainWine
MountainWine
Back
Top