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Question regarding Star Level rating of DS.

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The line says: "and with fire came desparity"

And then it says: "Heat and Cold, Life and Death, and of course, Light and Dark"

This statement actin contradicts itself and doesn't even prove concepts such as heat or cold existed

Huh, dragons living before the fire already contradicts it

Illusion part still stands, and this "gray world" aka Ash Lake still exist below the surface.

I wouldn't take that quote seriously as it kind of unreliable due to circumstances said In
 
I don't see how that contradicts itself

and dragon weren't alive in the conventional sense, as they were everlasting being that weren't really alive and as seen by the dragon butts in the ruins of izalith, can't die.

Illusion can mean a lot of things

"Illusion:

  • An instance of a wrong or misinterpreted perception of a sensory experience.
  • A deceptive appearance or impression.
  • A false idea or belief."
Alma saying that the fire age is an illusion doesn't istantly mean that it's not a real thing, it's just means it's not the truth.

and bulding the new on top of the old is kinda of a theme of the serie
 
Your main question is how is the linking of the flames not an outlier

That was already answered
 
There is a lot of stuff I don't want to read.We discussed all of this a lot of times.

Give a simple answer with a simple reason.
 
Anyways, I actually don't feel like debating firelinking. The illusion theory is just as vague as powering the sun, since nothing ever even implies that.

And I disagree, dragons being everlasting simply means they're Immortal. Seath was mortal and that was before the flame came to be.

Narrator does not actually explain things, it merely mentions them and sets these terms everyone uses
 
Okay so the simple answer to your question OP is

The Lord's that link the flame are vastly higher than most characters in the series on their own. That feat isn't applied to everyone in the series only the select few who linked the fire and those who can fight them
 
I can't....

Where do you get this information from?Certainly not from DS serie.Because in DS, Lords of Cinder are not superior to the rest,some of them are even weaker.Like Abyss Watchers.

And still you gonna ignore the fact that there is no star level feat.The feat you are talking about is vague in the first place.

The wank is insane when it comes to DS.
 
Isn't the Star Feat them keeping the literal sun in existence with their power?.
 
Or

You can read the rest of the thread and see the explanation for why the abyss watchers are not actually that weak and why they were able to link the flame

And see how the end of the age of fire literally puts the sun out and plunges the world back into darkness like in the ds1 intro
 
@LordGriffin1000

Yes,this is the Star Level feat of the verse,extremely vague by the way,and there was no reason to scale it the normal AP.

Oh,and the one who links the flame,sacrifices his soul.

@Paul Frank

This is very simple:

You are wrong.
 
Because nothing supports your opinion?

Again..

The Lord's that link the flame are vastly higher than most characters in the series on their own.

That is false,no indication of that in the whole serie,if you played it you would know.Some lords are stronger than normal bosses,some are weaker.At least bring as a scan where it is stated,then I'll agree with you.

That feat isn't applied to everyone in the series only the select few who linked the fire and those who can fight them

The feat is vague in the first place and there was no reason to scale it to normal AP because there is hardly tier 7 feats for the verse.
 
That's because the game has to be harder as you progress?

The only two options were to have you fight all the Lord's of cinder and then the soul of cinder back to back, or to have bosses in between then slightly increasing the power of the bosses to create a sense of progression

By that logic a lothric knight near the princes is stronger than iudex gundyr or vordt simply because they hit harder and have more hp

It is clear within the lore who the most powerful beings are heck even looking at the soul description of a lord of cinder and comparing it to a normal boss shows this

The lore of the game straight up states that you have to be extremely powerful to link the flame And sustain the age of fire, unless you're saying that's wrong and the Ashen one at the start of the game or any old hollow could link the flame

There is literally a single tier 7 feat a few tier 6 feats and then the sun feat. The feat isn't really that vague

Only darkness and a world ruled by everlasting dragons the first flame appears and then the war with the dragons happens and the age of fire starts

The end to the age of fire is straight up stated to return the world to the age of dark and in the end of ds3 if you don't link the flame everyone goes dark and the sun goes out and the only way to keep the age of fire going is drum roll please

To have someone link the flame thus sustaining the fire and the sun
 
This ain't gonna go anywhere, you can talk as much as you want, most of what you said is convenient headcanon anyway. We can talk about things that you can't get existing proof because there is none or we can actually start talking about what's consistent.

At this point I really don't care what you say, I just want scans so we might be able to discuss how legit the tiering actually is.

What you're saying is way to specific and you'll never find this conclusion in the game without assuming and making theories. All that's ever been said is that you need to become strong enough to link the flame with your soul, and this keeps the age of fire going. Nowhere is it said that their power is used to directly power the sun, being an Illusion would make way more sense since Gwyndolin actually did something similar, so I don't see that as an impossibility, especially since it came from a reliable NPC who literally narrated the lore in dks2.

I've literally went over why Lords of Cinder aren't above others as much as you say they are, they're different and not all of them are crazy powerful warriors that alloted enough souls to become worthy.

So imma say it one last time, bring scans or stop wasting my time.
 
Konaguna

The sun literally goes out at the end of ds3 if the flame isn't linked

The age of darkness is stated to come if the fire isn't linked

Why would the fire fading and not being linked cause the sun to go out and the age of darkness to stop if the sun isn't maintained through that

Aldia is not reliable in rhe slightest I have no clue where you get that from, he's smart and knowledgeable sure but reliable no, he also says the age of fire is an illusion

1.He is not saying the sun is an illusion

2.as stated above illusion has multiple meanings and considering his attitude towards the fire and gods he clearly meant the age of fire is a lie due to the fact it's not supposed to be going on this long and is artificially kept going. This would be a great thing to tell the next person who is destined to link the flame if you don't want them to link it. It would make them doubt the linking of the fire


Please tell me which lords of cinder are weak then and what normal character who can't link the fire is canonically stated to be stronger than them
 
I'm going to be frank. We don't have scans plain and simple. Dark Souls is purposefully vague and headcanon is the closest thing to actual scaling.

You want proper scaling? Nameless King could very well not be the son of Gwyn. Farron had their own War God and that could be the Nameless King. Solaire could be the Nameless King for all we know.

If I played the game without prior knowledge of Dancer, both she and Dragonslayer Armour would be stronger than 3 Lords of Cinder.

These are examples of how trying to apply normal scaling to Dark Souls doesn't work.

To make things even more convoluted, Repair literally states that light = time. It's not a stretch to say that there was no concept of time before the first flame.

To add to that, I think there's a proper way to scale Lords of Cinder. Kindling the fire means feeding your soul to it and turning you to Cinder. Obviously, a stronger soul fuels the fire longer and Gwyn kept the fire going the longest. We just need to see how long each Lord of Cinder's age lasts and scale it to their power.
 
Konaguna said:
Anyone who says lords are vastly stronger have obviously no idea about consistency.

>Abysswatchers getting their power to become lords from Artorias who isn't even near the level of a LOC. This has been specifically said and there's absolutely no way you can interpret this in any other way that guarantes wanking the weaker element.

>Solaire keeping up with Gwyn even though his feats are garbage, and CU has went through a lot more. The idea of all three being eqauals is ludicrous

>Siegward keeping up with Yhorm. While is an unkindled, he's featless af

>Lothric tanking hits from near endgame ashen one
Click to expand...
Artorias has the potential to be a Lord of Cinder. Hell, everyone does. But how long you keep the fire going determines how powerful you are.

Gwyn was hollow and severely nerfed after losing his soul. To add to that, Solaire kindled the fire in his world after facing our Gwyn.

Sigward was using a weapon specifically made to kill giants. It's very blatant that Yhorm knew Stormruler could kill him very easily, as he gave it to the very people who hated him to challenge thier bravery.

Lothric is a LoC candidate. Lorian is stronger than Lothric. Both should scale. Add to that the fact that Demon Prince, someone who was supposed to kindle the Chaos Flame, was utterly beaten by Lorian.
 
I think it's interesting how star level Darksouls is always questioned but star level Bloodbourne is fine just because it has eldritch horrors in it.
 
I haven't played BB myself,but seen gameplays etc.

I don't even know,by the first look it is tier 8 at best.But as I said I haven't played it and can't judge.
 
This again? Didn't we just do it where Kona said "hey I'll answer all your questions when I get back" then left the thread until it closed?

1. 4-C isn't an outlier because literally every single Lord of Cinder does it. An outlier implies a single event that has nothing to back it up. However, every lord consistently performs the same feat. There being no tier close to it is irrelevant since the Lords of Cinder explicitly have stronger souls than the other characters in the series.

2. The god tiers are "At least High 4-C, possibly 4-B" based on multipliers, actually. High 4-C is based on the absolute minimum amount of Lords of Cinder there have been- I think the number was like 9 or 10 but don't quote me on that. All of their souls are present in the Soul of Cinder, thus the Soul of Cinder has their strength. The 4-B comes from us not knowing how many there are. 4-B is questionable, High 4-C is rock solid.

3. Kona's just outright wrong on Abysswatchers getting their strength from Artorias. Yeah, they have his blood which was ultimately combined with their souls, but nothing states Artorias' soul was the one they used, only that it served as something like a hivemind, a connection, for all of their souls to be linked.

4. Unkindled are featless if you ignore them being canonically able to fight Lords of Cinder, yes. So are practically all enemies.

Frankly this comes down to yet another attempt to scream wank at Dark Souls when it's all been discussed and debunked eighty five thousand times.
 
^The verse has not feats on that level.And the whole powering up the sun feat is vague in the first place.

How isn't that an outler?Can you show actual feats rather than linking the flame?
 
Yeah it's vague but that doesn't matter, it has been discussed. And we don't need other feats since A. they are a tier of their own and B. the lords are consistently able to do it.

Let's put it like this. In fictional verse A, a character called "God" creates the universe. This universe is generally 9-B to 9-A in terms of potency. By your logic, this God's universe creation feat is now an outlier and they scale to some low-tier character at 9-A.

That makes zero sense.
 
@Overlord775

There are numerous feats,but non of them comes even close to Linking The Flame.All feats are tier 8 to 9.

And one tier 7 feat.
 
Let's put it like this. In fictional verse A, a character called "God" creates the universe. This universe is generally 9-B to 9-A in terms of potency. By your logic, this God's universe creation feat is now an outlier and they scale to some low-tier character at 9-A.

How is that even relevant?He is a god that created a universe,he wasn't shown to die out of tier 9 attack or anything.The whole example is wrong and misses a lot of details.
 
Because you're suggesting a higher-tier feat is an outlier purely because the lower tiers of the verse have no replicated it. No 4-C of the verse has ever been killed by a Tier 6. Even Gwyndolin was easily beaten by Aldrich in their encounter.
 
Dzhindzholia said:
@Overlord775
There are numerous feats,but non of them comes even close to Linking The Flame.All feats are tier 8 to 9.

And one tier 7 feat.
Click to expand...
Also this is outright wrong. There are three Tier 7 feats I can think of just in the first game- Izalith melting the trees, Ceaseless Discharge solidifying the lava and Gwyn's blast across the Kiln of the First Flame. All were calc'd at varying degrees of Tier 7.
 
Also, please explain how linking the fire is an outlier if every main character and lord of which there are a hell of a lot has shown the ability to do it?
 
The whole verse has no back up feats,that is the problem.Why is DS so special?Other verse gets nerft all the time because of the Outlier card and in Dark Souls you can be Solar System level even without dispaying a tier 6 feat or a proper tier 7.

The verse is wanked.
 
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