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Question about the New Gods

Okay. I suppose that you may have a point. So you want Mandrakk to have another key for before he entered the multiverse?
 
Okay. I suppose that may be reasonable.
 
Ok

I have another question, I was wondering if Rama Kushna could be 5-D because she exists in a dimension two steps higher than the universe.

I saw this thread where Seed tried to upgrade Rama Kushna to High 1-B (which got rejected)

Matthew said that at best Rama could be 5-D but even that is outlandish because she's from the Sphere of the Gods

Just wondering, why does Rama originating from the sphere of the gods prevents her from being 5D when beings like the Endless, Heaven and Hell also resides within it? and also, where did it said that the Sphere of the Gods is 4D?
 
Rama Kushna isn't infinite-D, tho. She says that her world are dimension is "Twice-removed" from that a man. At best that is 5D.
 
No, I didnt say that she is infinite D

I said I was wondering if she could be 5D because of that statement and why residing within the sphere of the gods prevents you from being High 2-A when more powerful beings exists within the Sphere of the Gods
 
Well, there was that Multiversity statement of the New Gods existing in a spatially 4-D manner across all the 52 universes, but I don't remember whether or not the multiverse map listed Mxyzptlk's realm as above or beside the true New Gods.
 
There's no 5th dimension in the multiverse map but I think Grant Morrison said that the 5th Dimension is imagination
 
I am pretty sure that it was placed there somewhere. Do you have the image available?
 
It seems like I thought that Kwyzz was the name for the realm of the 5-D imps. It is placed below the gods sphere though. That seems strange.
 
Okay. Thank you for the information. So what tier do you think that he should be instead?
 
Regarding the 5th Dimension, in Multiversity it was stated that the House of Heroes in the Bleed rotates through the 5th Dimension. The Bleed has always been depicted as a clearly 4D space, so this means either the 5th Dimension is contained within the Orrery or that the Sphere of the Gods IS the 5th Dimension, with Mxyzptlk's home dimension just a part of it. High 2-A True Gods lol
 
What do you think Matthew?
 
@Sandman

KingPin is fundamentally wrong. Relating Forms to dimensionality is both redundant and erroneous, as they are conceptually transcendent to space and time dimensions and totally metaphysical and abstract, this being the essence of 1-A.

According to Wikipedia:

A Form is aspatial (transcendent to space) and atemporal (transcendent to time). Atemporal means that it does not exist within any time period, rather it provides the formal basis for time. It therefore formally grounds beginning, persisting and ending. It is neither eternal in the sense of existing forever, nor mortal, of limited duration. It exists transcendent to time altogether. Forms are aspatial in that they have no spatial dimensions, and thus no orientation in space, nor do they even (like the point) have a location. They are non-physical, but they are not in the mind. Forms are extra-mental (i.e. real in the strictest sense of the word).
 
That definitely sounds like 1-A, yes, but the New Gods have never been remotely treated as being of that level.
 
As for Darkseid, our current standards require transcending linear time to qualify for immeasurable speed. I am not sure if Darkseid has such demonstrations.
 
How about the Monitors and Thought Robot? Grant said they were also Platonic Forms, they were said to be the most primal forms, their world is where form surrenders to the Overvoid and is an archetypal reality

Isnt Darkseid 4D?
 
Antvasima said:
That definitely sounds like 1-A, yes, but the New Gods have never been remotely treated as being of that level.
Click to expand...
Ok, but then again, when did Darkseid's true form/essence did something outside of Final Crisis? Final Crisis basically retcons all of DS previous appearances to avatars
 
Sorry if this does not help, but I realized a few things. Please forgive me for any ignorance and stupidity I show :

- What I have not seen stated is that They do have consistent feats of manipulating / controlling the Source , which is pretty much 1-A. - The New Gods tore The Source into halves. -In fact, the Anti-Life Equation & Life Equation was retconned into being the two halves of the Source. - In fact, Gog , who fought equally w/ a powerful New God [Infinity Man] , had the powers of the Source and several powerful weapons.
 
Well, I am uncertain about the Monitors, but even true form Darkseid has never demonstrated anywhere near 1-A degrees of power. Wasn't he killed by Batman wielding a Radion bullet, or do I misremember?
 
I'm confused over what's being argued here. I am very uncertain and leaning against 1-A New Gods simply because they are described as platonic forms / ideals.

@Antvasima

Darkseid was harmed by Batman firing a Radion bullet at him. Although the Radian Gun was described as being the Platonic Ideal blueprint of every gun ever made and wielded by every single being in the multiverse.
 
Yes, but that bullet was also explained to be the essence of bullet, also a Platonic Form/Idea/essence

"An all purpose god-killing projectile that can be loaded and fired over and over again from any gun ever invented...essence of bullet"

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/UyPSJZOnV8...AHaltcb6ZuB7he98a0RBN7PLPBaqHh5BhRTW_gH=s1600

"It was the blue print, the template for every bullet that have ever been. It was the original bullet that killed JFK, Martin Luther King, John Lennon, Ghandi...Archduke Ferdinand...Thomas and Martha Wane"

He wasnt also killed by that, his essence survived and it was only shattered when Superman used the Miracle Machine
 
Alright, but we still cannot slap 1-A, i.e. indescribably beyond infinity^infinity times DC superhero level, power on all of the New Gods simply because the word platonic form has been used in an interview. Destroying 52 universes by decomposing and being reduced to possessing human bodies is nowhere near that degree of power.
 
They are 2-A actually, the strongest ones. Darkseid was affecting infinite universes, and they are above the infinite universes. Could be High 2-A for existing outside the Bleed, which is 5th Dimensional.
 
@Ant

Not just in an interview though, the interview only confirms it but they we're heavily implied to be that within the storyline itself

But yes, I understand, I'm very uncertai myself, which is why I put this on a Q and A thread and not on a CRT thread
 
@Matthew

Noted, but I am still strongly opposed to severely exaggerating them to 1-A.

@Sandman

Okay, but I would appreciate if you permanently drop the subject. It is not going to lead anywhere, and the staff does not have limitless time and energy.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
They are 2-A actually, the strongest ones. Darkseid was affecting infinite universes, and they are above the infinite universes. Could be High 2-A for existing outside the Bleed, which is 5th Dimensional.
Click to expand...
so High 2-A or like/possibly High 2-A?

@Ant

Alright
 
Ok so how about Darkseid being High 2-A?

The Bleed is 5th Dimensional and these scans implies that the Bleed was also being affected/ being sucked by the singularity that Darkseid became.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-kFEnsND6r-8/VN4JUYb46gI/AAAAAAAIABY/bcQMmE-k9II/s1600/p15_26+copy.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/- fFm84iysqtk/VN4KEOM3HrI/AAAAAAAIAHw/1ffvkFXwBmc/s1600/p17_23%2Bcopy.jpg

The Bleed is also within the Orrery of Worlds and Darkseids fall damaged and would have destroyed the Orrery

Also, Rox Ogama and Mandrakks plot was to take advantage of Darkseids fall to the Orrery so that they can devour everything

what abilities can Darkseid have for being a Platonic Ideal? Abstract existence?

I mean we cant just completely ignore that since that's how the nature of the New Gods as explained in Final Crisis

Not saying that he should be 1-A but we cant just ignore the nature of the true form of New Gods

We cant ignore such an important detail
 
Abstract existence might be acceptable, yes.
 
I may have lacked context before when I posted that comment above (about the New Gods) but I think that if characters with dimensionality are proven to be stronger than these characters stated to be "Platonic", that a note should be placed in their profiles detailing how by their very nature they are not Platonic in anything more than name. Otherwise I see nothing but misunderstandings in people trying to relate Platonic Ideals to dimensionality, which is utterly erroneous.
 
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