Question about the mythos

[Aroht]

hello everyone,

I have a question about the hierarchy,

correct me if I'm wrong all the outer gods is a facet of YogSothoth?


all the "ultimate" being (like the ultimate carter) are just a projection of one of the outer gods? (in the case of carter he is a direct projection of Yog Sothoth)?


I have trouble with dimensions and projection of higher being, if someone can explain me

thanks

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

In a way, yes.

"In the face of that awful wonder, the quasi-Carter forgot the horror of destroyed individuality. It was an All-in-One and One-in-All of limitless being and self—not merely a thing of one Space-Time continuum, but allied to the ultimate animating essence of existence's whole unbounded sweep—the last, utter sweep which has no confines and which outreaches fancy and mathematics alike. It was perhaps that which certain secret cults of earth have whispered of as YOG-SOTHOTH, and which has been a deity under other names; that which the crustaceans of Yuggoth worship as the Beyond-One, and which the vaporous brains of the spiral nebulae know by an untranslatable Sign—yet in a flash the Carter-facet realised how slight and fractional all these conceptions are."

"All descended lines of beings of the finite dimensions, continued the waves, and all stages of growth in each one of these beings, are merely manifestations of one archetypal and eternal being in the space outside dimensions. Each local being—son, father, grandfather, and so on—and each stage of individual being—infant, child, boy, young man, old man—is merely one of the infinite phases of that same archetypal and eternal being, caused by a variation in the angle of the consciousness-plane which cuts it. Randolph Carter at all ages; Randolph Carter and all his ancestors both human and pre-human, terrestrial and pre-terrestrial; all these were only phases of one ultimate, eternal "Carter" outside space and time—phantom projections differentiated only by the angle at which the plane of consciousness happened to cut the eternal archetype in each case."

"The archetypes, throbbed the waves, are the people of the ultimate abyss—formless, ineffable, and guessed at only by rare dreamers on the low-dimensioned worlds. Chief among such was this informing BEING itself . . . which indeed was Carter's own archetype. The glutless zeal of Carter and all his forbears for forbidden cosmic secrets was a natural result of derivation from the SUPREME ARCHETYPE. On every world all great wizards, all great thinkers, all great artists, are facets of IT."

 

[Aroht]

Thx for the answer

And for nya, he is the soul and messenger of the outer gods, I see him more like a link between lesser being and the outer gods and each avatar he takes is only directed by the will of the outer gods, but is a contradiction to the letter of Lovecraft when the hierarchy makes him more an avatar of Azathoth than a messenger.

The letter is considered the canonical hierarchy or more a joke send to a friend?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

It's both?

Nyarlathotep is both Azathoth's messenger and soul. As for the letter, while admittedly a very useful tool for understanding the basic hierarchy and relationship between the Outer Gods, he sent that as a joke to a crazy guy who thought he was the son of Zeus.

He even started the letter with "Hail, Offspring of Jove!". He then continues praising the guy for having such a rich and noble origin and history in his family, but then states: "Alas, I have only daemons behind me".

He then wrote the Family Tree, which if you notice including H.P. Lovecraft himself and Clark Ashton Smith as descendents of Azathoth.

 

[Aroht]

Thx, nya is just lesser due to is status, but he is closer than any outer gods to Azathoth?

In result if Azathoth is the dreamer and Yog Sothoth is the dream, nya is a sort of Azathoth avatar in the dream or is mind?

That's not make it equal in importance to yog sothoth ?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Matt is correct. The family tree was explicitly created with a wink and a nudge, but serves the purpose of showing us what Lovecraft did indeed treat Azathoth as the ultimate progenitor of the Mythos, among a few small other things.

Nyar can sort of be viewed as an Avatar of Azathoth/the Outer Gods collectively, in a way. It's purposefully left vague, but isn't exactly contradicted. Of course, the "true" Nyar never really appears, as they are all just examples of his 1000 "masks".

The same can sort of be said for any Outer God or similar entity, in the Mythos. Carter doesn't perceive the entirety of the entity known as Yog-Sothoth, for example (which in itself is stated to be a fractional perception). Hell, Johansen supposedly doesn't even perceive the entirety of Cthulhu, so it's not like it's something reserved for beings of such an incredibly high level, either.

 

[Aroht]

Hum ok, and nya lose to stop carter in the dreamland with the help of nodens, but nya is vastly superior to nodens? I know it's only one of its avatar, but if nya really want to stop carter, nodens cannot do anything to help him? Is nodens possibly another one of nya thousand form?

Nya is really different from the other outer gods and more complicated

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

It's likely that Nyar's 1000 forms don't exactly work as a hive mind, and are more their own distinct entities that are all still aware that they're Nyarlathotep. It's...strange, to say the least.

 

[Aroht]

like a puppeteer and it's puppets

 

[Aroht]

Last question about nya, he is referred as the soul and messenger of the other/outer gods and Azathoth is only referred has his "master" but maybe I'm wrong?

Yog Sothoth is the all in one and one in all, everything is part of Yog Sothoth with exception of Azathoth who is the ruler/master of everything,

Nya who is part of Yog Sothoth can't be the soul of Azathoth and part of yog sothoth at the same time if azathoth is outside of it ?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I don't think those two are mutually exclusive. The Outer Gods likely don't abide by such dichotomies.

 

[Aroht]

Thx for the answer,

if I understand, the eternal archetype carte is a little part of Yog Sothoth like Yog Sothoth is a little part of Azathoth?

like that

Azathoth => Yog Sothoth/Nyarlathotep => outer gods/Nyarlathotep => archetypes => etc?

Everything (Yog Sothoth) is just a little part of Azathoth => tier 0

Yog Sothoth is everything => high 1-a

and nya he is the soul of every outer gods (Yog Sothoth and Azathoth included) but he is not high 1-a due to his statu? for nya, every action is dictated by the other gods (collectively) but for him, he acts on its own will?

like all my life is diriged by a greater force but for me every action is my decision but in real is not ?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

like all my life is diriged by a greater force but for me every action is my decision but in real is not ?

It's more like the very idea of "action" or "change" isn't actually real. The very idea that something is "happening" is a limit of perspective, which is in itself false and only a limit of certain beings. In reality, everything is as it is at all times, forever, because change itself does not exist. What we think of as "reality" is illusion, and the true "reality" is an unchanging, unending totality.