But doesn't something that affects logic also can affect order, right? Or something that is not affected by order is not affected by logic, right?
This from WN, basically it mention about order is nothing compare to reason. Even order is just part of reason
Order cannot affect logic, since order follows a specific course, everything as we know has logic, order itself cannot defy order, while logic has nothing to do with order as it's a superior state.
That's what I mean yeah, that even orders works with a logic/reason.(So, orders has a logic)
Yes, but what you think is just another power of words, like "We know it exists but it is not a relevant power like order". But it is more powerful and beyond it.
Remember that Anos already had type 4.
Hmmmm... Alr then, thanks you
Yeah, i know. But with these standards, type 5 seems very difficult. Umineko's and many other verses type 5 Acausality are also nuked( and it still keeps on going lol) It's too hard to get it.
You would have to show where Venuzdonoa affected anybody to remain faster than them.
They don't need to, what you're saying is Venuzdonoa isn't the most powerful weapon because it hasn't fought against every other weapon. There's no assumption being made. Just as it's clear Venuzdonoa is the strongest by feats, said feats also makes it the fastest. If there's any assumption being made, it's in the causality manipulation itself. This is the attack (Evansmana) Venuzdonoa did the feat against
Venuzdonoa vs Evansmana
There is no time travel, causality manipulation, time reversal happening there. There is nothing affecting the opponent that the opponent has to resist, Venuzdonoa just remains faster.
Even just as Cadenalios traces back through time to cut an opponent, Venuzdonoa too has feats of cutting through time. Once again we are at the beginning of where we started. You would have to disprove this fact about Venuzdonoa before you can make a call about It being an assumption.
Attack speed, not combat speed
Leave me out of this. Thanks
Dread delicate moment be like.
No. You're welcome.
Wouldn't that be better to have on the profile than what is current? Also has Venuzdonoa faced off against <Cadenalios>?
That makes no sense, if you use law manipulation to make yourself the fastest then you are saying you are faster than anyone else, which includes the opponent you're facing. If the opponent is not affected by your law, then you are not faster than them because the opponent is not included in your set of "faster than". You aren't able to suddenly use causality hax to hit every time against an acausal type 4 being because "I'm affecting my hits, not the opponent."
Of course, it is the strongest, however, that doesn't mean it has every property or the same speed as the weapon below it. It is like how a greatsword is the strongest type of weapon, however, daggers will be faster than the greatsword because they're smaller and have less weight. Even then, it is Venuzdonoa manipulating/destroying reason to be faster than anything it faces, so this is not a pure speed feat.
Through destroying the reason that it's not faster:
The only relatively strong justification it has is that it is faster than <Cadenalios> (I would still like a scan that shows the two having competed), the scan of hitting before swinging is a feat that is easily replicated by the PASSIVE causality manipulation/destruction of reason it has.
It changes an enormous amount because one is a physical indication of immeasurable speed while the other is a hax, a hax can be resisted but physical speed cannot. Why are you downplaying this huge discrepancy?
Actually, while Gae Bolg does reverse causality, Fragarach attack specifically goes back in time and then reverses causality to always pierce the heart. The logical contradiction that the NP is fired, but the user is dead before they fired causes the world to overwrite the reason for the NP firing so that it does not fire.
Once again, Venuzdonoa is not affecting anyone. The logic of speed or who strikes first is meaningless
You have to have immeasurable speed before you can stand a chance against something with immeasurable speed.
I'm 100% sure you don't even fully understand what's meant there (don't worry about it, no one reached a specific conclusion either).
It doesn't need to face off against Cadenalios. Just as it hasn't faced Evansmana, Gaudgimon, Befenguzdogma, Gilionojes, Deltoros etc yet it is an established fact that none of these weapons hold a candle to Venuzdonoa.
Still changes nothing. Everything Venuzdonoa does is through logic manipulation even it's autonomous operation. There's no reason why that wouldn't apply to it's speed
Man, everyone says something different and contradicts themselves.
I don't see how that's contradictory. His point is that someone can resist it and my point is Venuzdonoa isn't affecting anybody to make itself faster than them.Man, everyone says something different and contradicts themselves.
You say Venuz has been working passively ever since, but now you say "it doesn't affect anything, it just reverses logic."
Because the two things said contradict each other. One is right, one is wrong. Who should I trust?
I know Venuz can ignore this law and causality, but that's not what I meant.
Kek.. It's just that some people don't understand, so let me sum it up, if something contradicts venuz it creates a logical contradiction by destroying the reason. In the case of speed, even if something is at a level like Immeasurable, venuz will take this as a contradiction, and this doesn't nullify the speed, but makes venuz faster. But this is not all, we know that Venuz can also attack by itself and destroy things by itself, so even if it is a sword, its given speed feats even without a weilder.
So, if it is at immeasurable speed, it does not destroy it, Venuz just equalizes its speed. Okay I get that, but my point is that Venus having a passive attack means that it will destroy these rules and laws at passively, without any conflict from the other side. However, what you said seems to require an attack from the other side, but okay.
Kek.. It's just that some people don't understand, so let me sum it up, if something contradicts venuz it creates a logical contradiction by destroying the reason. In the case of speed, even if something is at a level like Immeasurable, venuz will take this as a contradiction, and this doesn't nullify the speed, but makes venuz faster. But this is not all, we know that Venuz can also attack by itself and destroy things by itself, so even if it is a sword, its given speed feats even without a weilder.
Just take a look at Venuz's feats section.
Actually it doesn't equalize it, it surpasses it because the only reason that allows Venuz is the destruction of its weilder's enemies. Actually it doesn't need an attack, because as I said previously even in feats like the one in the exam/test that wasn't a battle or an attack or anything venuz had simply destroyed the reason to help Anos and his gang, Anos summoned it and venuz acted by itself, so you can say that Venuz is passive, it can act by itself to defend and destroy and it can also adapt to its weilder's desires.
Yes, yes, I understand, blade disregards the rules and laws and always superior (well, you get it what i mean, it's something like that.). Additionally, any attack that adheres to causality and rules, even if they themselves hit first, it will be destroyed or reversed by Venuz, Thank you
No, my point is that Venuz doesn't need to apply any hax to the opponent to remain faster than them not it doesn't affect anything. There's a difference.
Thank you!
It will be a pleasure to see a lot of angry people crying when I can use the translated feats hahahaha.
@Georredannea15
Based.
