Quantifying AP via size

[ArbitraryNumbers]

We need some way to quantify a character's AP from their size if no other feats can be found, something better than simply eyeballing them. Any ideas?

Here's the best I can come up with:

My suggestion is to find the character's height, or calc their body mass, and then scale using some multipliers to get KE.

For example, let's say I calc'd a giant to weigh at 2000 kg. We also calc his height at 10 meters. I'll divide that by the average human height, (Around 1.71 meters) getting me 5.84795321637. I'll then multiply that by the average human running speed, 12.5171 m/s, getting me 73.1994152046 m/s.

Applying KE would get me 5358154.3863 joules, or Wall level+.

 

[PaChi2]

Amittabah or however its spelled has AP and speed based entirely on his stature.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

That's kinda different, there's literally no way he can't be his tier.

Also >calc group discussion

Not for us.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

Yes, but that's just a rough estimate. We don't need any calculations to know that someone who views the universe in the same way the universe views Planck length is obviously going to have AP a ridiculous amount of times greater than that required to destroy the observable universe.

 

[PaChi2]

Oh, sorry then, I thought he was calculated a gazillion times universal, sorry again.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

No problem.

 

[Reppuzan]

What if that something is made of unquantifiable mass?

For instance, the Gleam Eyes of Sword Art Online is made of data. How exactly would we calculate its mass?

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

In that case, I don't know.

But we can always use real life equivalents if possible. Like in The Wonderful 101, where the GEATHJERK Federation uses GEATH-Titanium alloys to build some of their ships. We can always just use real life titanium in that case.

 

[TheJ-ManRequiem]

Data actually does have mass, if ya mean in the computer sense, it's just almost literally non-existent.

Just thought I'd add that.


Unfollowing.

 

[RadianceQ]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blogontTalk/AP_by_Height:_Mökkurkalfe_-_To_Aru_calc

This is currently in use and would be one possible method, I think.


In regards to KE I would disagree with the human running speed ratio method. That should only be done if they have actual speed feats on their own.

It isn't rare that giant creatures appear to move very sluggish and slow relative to their size, so assuming that relative to their size they are as fast as humans would not always be good.

 

[Antoniofer]

Welp, energy is related to mass, so if someone is x times bigger than a human, we could multiplied by 100 J (how is rated the normal humans). However, it will only works with human shaped beings, and only are strong via size; it also should only works with AP, durability should vary depending of the material of what is made.

 

[Blademan9999]

12.5171 m/s is not average human running speed.

Also assuming that they can run a number of body lengths similar to a normal size human is a somewhat questionable assumption without any supporting evidence.

In real life smaller organisms can generally run a larger number of body lengths per second then larger organisms.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

Following.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, it usually depends on case by case. A giant gas monster with extremely low mass for their size would likely not yield high AP unless they demonstrate feats. But at the same time, a humanoid giant who is skyscraper sized and carries a sword just as big as he is should definitely qualify as High 8-C or above; especially if they demonstrate being able to slice skyscrapers in half.

 

[VoidReaper]

A giant should at least be able to lift their own weight if it can stand and walk so we can start there. I suspect quantifying via size is going to be pretty impossible without stated evidence that does not require size as its primary factor.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Following.

 

[Magi_Hussie]

Following & I'll just read the suggestions and let the Calc group handle this.

 

[Antoniofer]

In support of the power comsumption from above, since it seems like our system use the power comsumption of a humans (40 - 100 J, when the averge one could reach up to 121.5 watts, meanwhile, here say it vary from 50 to 121 watts, pretty similar.

So from the same wikipedia link show formulas that involve mass, height and age; using it in myself (using the most resents), I get 73.1 to 92.5 watts; meanwhile, using this calculator I got ~86 watts.

Of course, we can't determinate the age of a character, so in remote case, we use the Katch-McArdle formula, that is only related to mass and height. Using a man of 10 m height, the power comsumption would be 5578 watts (that seems pretty slow to me...)

However, that only cover organic humanoid beings whose lacks of feats besides its weight, and it only show the standard comsumption (doing nothing but exist), a situation that pretty much will never exist.

 

[Antvasima]

So, should we simply go by comparing the size with real world objects such as buildings, large buildings, etcetera, or use movement formulas? The latter option would, of course, also be dependent on their speeds, so it might end up overcomplicating things.

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

While I agree that this site does treat big characters strangely,In particular the standards for what constitutes "large building via size" are absurdly generous,I can't imagine how enormous of an undertaking it would be to downgrade every character whos justification for their AP is basically just "damn,he big".

In some cases you would probably have to downgrade entire verses.

 

[Antvasima]

Agreed. It would likely be too much trouble.

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

I do think that at the very least though we should reevaluate the standards for "high 8-c via size"

because as it currently stands there are actual real people who would almost make the cut for being high 8-C via size.

Being only a couple times taller than the average adult man shouldn't instantly make you so much stronger than the average dude that you can level skyscrapers

 

[Antvasima]

Well, being the size of a skyscraper might.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, if a person were the size of the Empire State Building for example, that would be way above High 8-C.

 

[Antvasima]

No, I think that it would be qualified as High 8-C, if there were no actual higher feats from the character.

 

[fandom_12cheeper]

Well, being the size of a skyscraper might.

Yeah,that's fair.My issue is that are some profiles with significantly smaller characters rated at high 8-c via size.

 

[Antvasima]

Alright.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

I think we should account for density as well. If A character is just an enormous blob the size of a building, it probably wouldn't be able to destroy the whole thing in one hit. But if it is stated to have a body that is super dense like stone, it could definitely work, as their kinetic energy should be around that level.

My next idea is to apply around 12.27 m/s to their speed and use the object they're comparable to in size for their mass, and apply kinetic energy, since they should at least be capable of outrunning Usain Bolt unless there's any indication otherwise.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Arbitrary

Let's be honest, how many works describe how dense their characters are unless it's directly tied to their powers?

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

Yeah, I considered that.

But what do you think of the second idea?

 

[Kytygys15]

Wouldn't square-cube law mean strength and size wouldn't scale that way, though? Like, a guy that's ten times as massive as a human wouldn't necessarily be ten times as strong, or be able to take ten times the amount of damage, as strength doesn't scale up that way. Otherwise, say, an ant the size of a human would be able to toss cars around like nothing, and we know very well that's not the case.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, 1000 times as much energy is required to support the weight of a 10x taller identical object due to 3D expansion, but I think that they logically cannot be supported past a certain height due to that the total strength of the object is only increased by 100 times due to 2D support area, or something like that.

This is fiction however, so it tends to ignore this.

 

[VoidReaper]

Yeah i kind of like this exaplanation but there are others. basically in reality being so large would become more and more of a hindrance, whether fiction as a general rule ignores this or comes up with fictional "fuels" to somehow power the body is probably circumstantial. Some may try and be realistic.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

To be fair, liquid and gas generally have more potential energy in them, which could potentially translate to joules of TNT. Especially if that blob monster is described of being some kind of acidic liquid that casually melts steel.

 

[Antvasima]

So what do the other staff members think that we should do here?