Qin Shi Huang vs Shiva (Record of Ragnarok)

[Phsccarvalho]

Qin Shi Huang:

• Version 5-B (Key: With Völundr)

Shiva:

• Version 5-B (Key: Base)

Rules:

• Distance: 10 meter
• Location: Ragnarok Tournament Arena from Record Of Ragnarok
• Win: Killing

Additional Comment:
Since this matchup is like a simulation of Qin vs Shiva if it happened at Ragnarok, Shiva is allowed to go into Tandava Karma form. But remember, they are in character.

Votes:
Qin Shi Huang:

Shiva:

Inconclusive:

 

[Wdinatx]

Do we really need to do this twice? Putting Shiva against a stronger fighter than his actual opponent and asking if he’d win? The answer is still no.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Shiva can be stronger than Qin for all the difference it makes when he can’t deal two damage types in one strike to overcome Heavenly Hand of Defense. Only thing he might be able to do is counter the air bubbles and that’s just cuz Qin gonna beat his ass so hard there is blood everywhere lol

 

[Jinx666]

Its actually pretty interesting. We shouldnt undermine Shiva since hes clearly stated as the best brawler among the Gods, so much so that Raiden apparently only gave him trouble because he was sticking to fighting with Sumo, but Qin as a martial artist throwing hands is right up Shivas alley.

Qins heavenly hand of defense would work, but Shiva possessing 4 arms is a lot more diffifcult for him to deal with and reflect at a time. Theres also the fact that Shivas natural heat would likely disperse all of Qins bubbles before they manage to hit his Qi points (Which Qin still has to keep track of an extra pair of arms), since the high heat would evaporate the air bubbles. Qin hasnt really shown anything to say he could out manouver Shiva's war dance and unpredictable movement, and both have crazy high pain tolerance that its practically evened out. Tandava Karma would definitely burn Qin for all his contact moves, and Qin hasnt got the same raw power output as Raiden to threaten Shiva with attacks that would amputate or oneshot him. If Qin can bring out the sword then maybe, but lowkey I think Shiva takes this one.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Not sure, Qin has more versatility but shiva is pretty tough in his own right

 

[Greatsage13th]

Qin FRA

 

[Jinx666]

Not sure, Qin has more versatility but shiva is pretty tough in his own right

Shiva literally counters all his versatility

Four Arms means Qin cant possibly reflect more than 1 of his punches at a time, its twice the number of Qi cruxes to try and hit AND Shiva has the advantage in close-range because of it (which is Qin's forte)

Shiva's natural heat would just evaporate the bubbles before they can properly make contact, let alone Tandava Karma.

Qin hasn't got the destructive power to properly threaten Shiva with permanent damage like Raiden did

Shiva's War Dance just makes him unpredictable to hit in general, for a close range counter-based fighter like Qin.

What exactly is Qin gonna be able to do to put down Shiva? Lets all not forget he only managed to beat Hades cause of the convenient Desmos-being-alive and reflecting Hades damage right back at him

 

[Greatsage13th]

Shiva literally counters all his versatility

Four Arms means Qin cant possibly reflect more than 1 of his punches at a time, its twice the number of Qi cruxes to try and hit AND Shiva has the advantage in close-range because of it (which is Qin's forte)

You forgotten that qin fought a multi armed Chi you before. Also, striking a single crux still severely weakens his opponent's entire body. Even if they have multiple limbs.

Shiva's natural heat would just evaporate the bubbles before they can properly make contact, let alone Tandava Karma.

Nah

Qin hasn't got the destructive power to properly threaten Shiva with permanent damage like Raiden did

If he uses sword guard and thrust he could probably do so.

Shiva's War Dance just makes him unpredictable to hit in general, for a close range counter-based fighter like Qin.

Elaborate

 

[Jinx666]

You forgotten that qin fought a multi armed Chi you before.

Chiyou is fodder compared to Shiva
Shiva is the Indian Chief God. Chiyou was some refuge God relying on his superiority to humans to live. He'd fold Chiyou no matter how many limbs.

Having the experience still doesnt rob the advantage. Shiva is literally Heaven's greatest brawler, meaning his hand to hand and cqc skill is the best

Nah

Isthat meant to be an argument or something? Heat disperses air bubbles. Air rises when its being heated. Shiva is superhumanly hot (and can control his blood flow when he needs to) and would evaporate the bubbles without even needing to know Qin's technique unlike Hades who had to figure it out.

If he uses sword guard and thrust he could probably do so.

Thats his only hope like i said but Qin only resorted to the Sword when he lost a dang arm with Hades. Shiva isn't exactly gonna sit there and try and be stabbed.

Elaborate

Whats there to elaborate? After Shiva did that dance, the only hit Raiden had on him was Yatagarasu, and that was cause Shiva WANTED to face the attack head on. Otherwise Shivas moving to an unpredictable rhythm that Qin cant sense, and Shiva is just dancing over the dude. Qin is severely reliant on counter-play

 

[AnonymousBlank]

Chiyou definitely has more than just two arms

 

[Jinx666]

And? Doesnt compare him to shiva, nor remove Shiva's CQC advantage.
Qin had to learn and develop his martial art against this god in those 6 days, but he certainly aint comparable to the chief god of India. Bros featless

If anything, Chiyou is comparable to one of the many Indian gods that Shiva fodderised with Rudra

 

[Greatsage13th]

Chiyou is fodder compared to Shiva
Shiva is the Indian Chief God. Chiyou was some refuge God relying on his superiority to humans to live. He'd fold Chiyou no matter how many limbs.

We wouldn't know that. That's just a baseless assumption with no actual evidence to back it up. Also, Qin defeated him while completely mastering the Chi You martial art in the middle of battle in the duration of 6 days.

Having the experience still doesnt rob the advantage. Shiva is literally Heaven's greatest brawler, meaning his hand to hand and cqc skill is the best

"Heaven" is the keyword here. Does that mean he is superior to those on earth? Besides that he can keep up with the constantly moving Qi cruxes that Sasaki Kojirou regarded as being impossible for him to do.

Is that meant to be an argument or something? Heat disperses air bubbles. Air rises when its being heated. Shiva is superhumanly hot (and can control his blood flow when he needs to) and would evaporate the bubbles without even needing to know Qin's technique unlike Hades who had to figure it out.

The difference between air bubbles and Quin's bubbles, are that Qin's bubbles are bound by and contains Qi. We don't have evidence that Shiva can vaporize bubbles that are bounded by and contains Qi.

Thats his only hope like i said but Qin only resorted to the Sword when he lost a dang arm with Hades. Shiva isn't exactly gonna sit there and try and be stabbed.

He allowed himself to be dropkicked by Raiden and allowed himself to be hit by teppou...I don't want to hear any of that.

Whats there to elaborate? After Shiva did that dance, the only hit Raiden had on him was Yatagarasu, and that was cause Shiva WANTED to face the attack head on.

Qin can do something Sasaki Kojirou regarded as being impossible to do, you'd think chaotic movements would be harder than that?

Otherwise Shivas moving to an unpredictable rhythm that Qin cant sense, and Shiva is just dancing over the dude. Qin is severely reliant on counter-play

Not really.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Anyways Emperor FRA

 

[Jinx666]

We wouldn't know that. That's just a baseless assumption with no actual evidence to back it up. Also, Qin defeated him while completely mastering the Chi You martial art in the middle of battle in the duration of 6 days.

Errr...yeah we would.
Every God participating in Ragnarok is the best of the best, widely regarded and above the 'average god' as they make it out to be.
Shiva as the Indian God that literally stands atop over a thousand other gods in his pantheon would fold Chiyou easily.

Theres no assumption that Chiyou is comparable to Shiva. So idk what the point of bringing him up is

"Heaven" is the keyword here. Does that mean he is superior to those on earth? Besides that he can keep up with the constantly moving Qi cruxes that Sasaki Kojirou regarded as being impossible for him to do.

???
Im pretty sure the scope of Heaven is muuuuuch more vast that Humanity, that require the power of demigods or their own magical powers to compare to the Gods.
All we know is Shiva is definitely no slouch to CQC, which Qin as a martial artist is also fond of, but then Qin doesnt have an extra pair of arms, has no resistance to Shiva's heat and will literally feel all the pain Shiva is feeling.

The difference between air bubbles and Quin's bubbles, are that Qin's bubbles are bound by and contains Qi. We don't have evidence that Shiva can vaporize bubbles that are bounded by and contains Qi.

???
Pretty sure you're making this up dude.
the Air bubbles are literally just air bubbles, theres nothing said about Qi. Qi is just the thing he can see.
If Hades' wind from his spear thrusts can disperse them, then it acts just like an actual air bubble would, only this time Shiva doesnt need to care abt identifying them.

He allowed himself to be dropkicked by Raiden and allowed himself to be hit by teppou...I don't want to hear any of that.

Bro this is already getting tiring
1. Shiva didnt use the War dance at the start of the fight when he was getting manhandled
2. All of Raidens attacks were blunt physical damage, which is extremely different at withstanding compared to being stabbed by a piercing weapon. Shiva will not sit there and take a sword stab if he can dodge it, just cause he likes to take actual attacks. We see Shiva dodge Raiden multiple times.
3. Qin isnt stronger than Raiden in the slightest, not even with the Sword that he needed to borrow Hades' power off. If anything, Raiden is a huge counter to Qin as well depending on how much his muscles affect his Qi Flow and how well his muscles can act as a shield to the air bubbles

He is literally not gonna sit there and allow himself to be stabbed by an obvious sword just cause he likes to feel an opponents actual attacks

Qin can do something Sasaki Kojirou regarded as being impossible to do, you'd think chaotic movements would be harder than that?

As the dude who wrote that on Qin's profile, and him being my favourite character, Qin is only able to do this effectively because he has a literal hax eye power that lets him see where the Qi Cruxes move (and likely stuff such as size and speed), which Kojiro does not possess. Thats not a huge factor here?

Trying to dismiss Shiva's War dance just because Qin has a hax eye ability that focuses on something entirely different doesnt moot the point that Qin cant just cakewalk the war dance

Not really.

Please dont bother replying to stuff you're just gonna say 'no not really' to. Its not productive.
Qin is a counter based fighter, he exclusively deals counter attacks, he uses his opponents energy against them and manipulates their power outputs with his regular spaulders. Shiva is a CQC brawler that can literally coat himself in heat, possesses an additional pair of limbs that just maximise advantage and outnumber Qin's, and unpredictable movement. Qin cant reflect all 4 arms coming at him in the same time, and Shiva is perfectly capable of withstanding his own force output.

This is literally just one of Qin's bad matchups bro. Its not even to do with powerscaling, Qin Shiva and Hades have this Rock paper scissors thing going on.

 

[Greatsage13th]

Errr...yeah we would.
Every God participating in Ragnarok is the best of the best, widely regarded and above the 'average god' as they make it out to be.
Shiva as the Indian God that literally stands atop over a thousand other gods in his pantheon would fold Chiyou easily.

And? Hercules without the 12 labors required full power to actually match and severely harm Ares while Qin simply flung Ares across the room without the slightest of effort.

Theres no assumption that Chiyou is comparable to Shiva. So idk what the point of bringing him up is

There is no evidence that implies Chi you is weaker than the current god's roster.

???
Im pretty sure the scope of Heaven is muuuuuch more vast that Humanity, that require the power of demigods or their own magical powers to compare to the Gods.

Which...Sasaki Kojirou debunks by slicing Poseidon up like a tuna since Poseidon had skill issues...

All we know is Shiva is definitely no slouch to CQC, which Qin as a martial artist is also fond of, but then Qin doesnt have an extra pair of arms, has no resistance to Shiva's heat and will literally feel all the pain Shiva is feeling.

He fought someone with multiple limbs before and mastered their techniques in the midst of combat which he could do the same with Shiva if the fight goes on.

???
Pretty sure you're making this up dude.

Did you even check Qin's profile before hand?

the Air bubbles are literally just air bubbles, theres nothing said about Qi.

Then why bother putting qi manipulation in his profile if his bullets doesn't have it.

Qi is just the thing he can see.
If Hades' wind from his spear thrusts can disperse them, then it acts just like an actual air bubble would, only this time Shiva doesnt need to care abt identifying them.

Is it the spear the pierced the bubbles or the wind? Aside from that, Shiva doesn't even start of with tandava.

Bro this is already getting tiring
1. Shiva didnt use the War dance at the start of the fight when he was getting manhandled

Then he would be manhandled unless he uses it.

2. All of Raidens attacks were blunt physical damage, which is extremely different at withstanding compared to being stabbed by a piercing weapon. Shiva will not sit there and take a sword stab if he can dodge it, just cause he likes to take actual attacks. We see Shiva dodge Raiden multiple times.

I'd like evidence of that and how would he know? All he sees is a man with a blindfold with finger guards. He would still think this would be a bare hands brawl.

3. Qin isnt stronger than Raiden in the slightest, not even with the Sword that he needed to borrow Hades' power off. If anything, Raiden is a huge counter to Qin as well depending on how much his muscles affect his Qi Flow and how well his muscles can act as a shield to the air bubbles

The shield would more likely have crux of its own that Qin could exploit if Raiden does do that which is a TERRIBLE idea. We've seen how that went down with Hades using ichor to enhance his spear.

He is literally not gonna sit there and allow himself to be stabbed by an obvious sword just cause he likes to feel an opponents actual attacks

Qin doesn't start with a sword so this can be dropped for now.

As the dude who wrote that on Qin's profile, and him being my favourite character, Qin is only able to do this effectively because he has a literal hax eye power that lets him see where the Qi Cruxes move (and likely stuff such as size and speed), which Kojiro does not possess. Thats not a huge factor here?

Kinda is, anything that Kojirou can't predict that others can is impressive.

Trying to dismiss Shiva's War dance just because Qin has a hax eye ability that focuses on something entirely different doesnt moot the point that Qin cant just cakewalk the war dance

Never did.

Please dont bother replying to stuff you're just gonna say 'no not really' to. Its not productive.
Qin is a counter based fighter, he exclusively deals counter attacks, he uses his opponents energy against them and manipulates their power outputs with his regular spaulders.

Except the sword cut and the halberd attack that pierced Hades without another air bullet.

Shiva is a CQC brawler that can literally coat himself in heat, possesses an additional pair of limbs that just maximise advantage and outnumber Qin's. Qin cant reflect all 4 arms coming at him in the same time, and Shiva is perfectly capable of withstanding his own force output.

He doesn't coat himself in fire at the start of the battle. Additional limbs is something Qin has dealt with before without Chi You martial art. He only needs a single arm to completely reflect back Shiva's own attacks before his other arms connect.

This is literally just one of Qin's bad matchups bro. Its not even to do with powerscaling, Qin Shiva and Hades have this Rock paper scissors thing going on.

They do?

 

[Jinx666]

And? Hercules without the 12 labors required full power to actually match and severely harm Ares while Qin simply flung Ares across the room without the slightest of effort.

Hercules had only just got his power, and they mentioned he had already far surpassed Ares at thast point. Herc is on a different league

There is no evidence that implies Chi you is weaker than the current god's roster.

Yes, there is. the god roster is the best of the best, we see millions of gods in the stand, are constantly mentioned about weaker level gods.
He is F e a t l e s s, and we can only scale it as impressive since Qin is human and Chiyou is a god.

Which...Sasaki Kojirou debunks by slicing Poseidon up like a tuna since Poseidon had skill issues...

You didn't read Round 3 or know why Poseidon lost.

He fought someone with multiple limbs before and mastered their techniques in the midst of combat which he could do the same with Shiva if the fight goes on.

Cool, doesn't mean its easy to keep up with when Shiva is easily a much better fighter than Chiyou (regarded as the best brawler in history)

Did you even check Qin's profile before hand?

I literally wrote the profile

Then why bother putting qi manipulation in his profile if his bullets doesn't have it.

The bullets directly affect the Qi. The technique is using them to manipulate and weaken the opponents Qi flow.

Is it the spear the pierced the bubbles or the wind? Aside from that, Shiva doesn't even start of with tandava.

The Wind currents generated from Hades' swing dispersed the bubbles before they reached his body. Read Round 8. Shiva doesn't need to start off with Tandava, but he still has natural combustion

Then he would be manhandled unless he uses it.

Raiden and Qin's fighting styles are different. Read Round 8

I'd like evidence of that and how would he know? All he sees is a man with a blindfold with finger guards. He would still think this would be a bare hands brawl.

You're an actual moron.
Raiden had blunt force cause hes using his fists and not a piercing weapon. If Shiva see's a sword, he's not going to let it stab him. Shiva only likes taking the punches, because HE punches.

The shield would more likely have crux of its own that Qin could exploit if Raiden does do that which is a TERRIBLE idea. We've seen how that went down with Hades using ichor to enhance his spear.

Stop talking about Raiden vs Qin. Raiden is physically stronger than Qin

Qin doesn't start with a sword so this can be dropped for now.

Shush

Kinda is, anything that Kojirou can't predict that others can is impressive.

Actual Ignorance
Kojiro doesn't have the ability to see Qi points like Qin does. That is a power Qin has. Kojiro can 'predict stuff' and suggests he can take advantage of Qi crux on static opponents, but it constantly moves in a way that he cannot perceive unlike Qin. Its not a factor here

Except the sword cut and the halberd attack that pierced Hades without another air bullet.

He obviously has 'offensive moves', but his style of fighting is defensive. Its counter-based. Qin doesn't charge at Hades trying to use those moves, he uses them when Hades is open from striking first.

He doesn't coat himself in fire at the start of the battle. Additional limbs is something Qin has dealt with before without Chi You martial art. He only needs a single arm to completely reflect back Shiva's own attacks before his other arms connect.

Shiva naturally heats up the most his heartbeat goes up, which he has a control of if he needs to. Once Shiva's been tossed around a bit, the fire will kick in eventually and the bubbles will evaporate before touching him

They do?

Yeah. Qin beats Hades out of counter (canon), Hades beats Shiva imo cause of the Bident, and Shiva counters Qin.

Qin literally is not winning this

 

[StorytellingDemonKing]

Voting Qin Shi Huang FRA

 

[AnAverageUsername]

Well I'm voting Shiva FRA tbh, Jinx's arguments make sense

 

[ImNot4nUser]

Shiva FRA

 

[azontr]

Shiva FRA.

 

[Jinx666]

Just to clarify the arguments for Shiva since its all got pretty messy

- Shiva's natural body heat would evaporate the bubbles before they reach him once Shiva's blood stars pumping. This can be done at any time on his end, and we've seen he can survive the beatings and even fight limbless against Raiden (whose physically stronger than Qin). He would also be able to withstand his own force reflected at him (Qin would also feel this pain as well). Once Shiva gets really hot, or in Tandava Karma, Qin has no counter regardless and cannot touch him

-Four Arms outweighs Qin, and requires more Qi crux targets in order to weaken the attacks anyway. Not to say this seals Qin's fate, but its just a bad matchup point regardless. He also cant reflect more than one punch at a time.

-No real counter to the War Dance. Shiva would likely also be able to matchup to Qin's skill being 'Heavens Strongest Brawler', as they pointed out against Raiden that he would have been outskilled easily if he had not stuck to Sumo.

Only wincon Qin has is likely the sword, but Shiva contrary to what people think, isnt going to let himself get struck by a Sword as opposed to an actual physical attack like he did Raiden. Its two different things. Even then, Tandava Karma vs Goujian Sword is likely to end with Tandava melting it.

 

[Wdinatx]

Changing my vote to Shiva FRA.

 

[Jinx666]

Bump