Pui Pui's Profile

[ProudLearner]

It was discussed about why not make a profile on this Thread .

This is his Rough Draft that I made for Pui Pui.

Tier: Unknown, At Least 5-B

Name: Pui Pui

Origi: Dragon Ball

Age: Unknown

Gender: Male

Classificatio: Zoon-seiji, Majin

Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Skilled in Martial Arts , Likely Self-Sustenance (Type-1)(His homeworld is located in space), Flight, Spaceflight , Ki Manipulation (Can be used defensively and offensively, to strengthe his skin or to fire ki blasts, which can home in on targets, and form defensive barriers), Adapted to Gravity (Planet Zoon has 10x gravity of Earth), Resistance to Cold and Cosmic Radiation.

Attack Potency: At Least Planet Level (Should be At Least stronger than the Ginyu Force. Shin was wary of only Babidi's magic; Therefore, Shin wanted everyone to team up to defeat Pui Pui which included, Son Goku, Goha, and, Vegeta. Although, Pui Pui was one-shoted by base Vegeta.

Speed: At least FTL (Should be At Least faster than the Ginyu Force)

Lifting Strength: Unknow

Striking Strength: At Least Planet Level

Durability: At Least Planet Level

Stamina: High

Range: Standard melee range. At Least Planet Level with ki blasts and attacks.

Standard Equipment: Nothing notable

Intelligence: Average

Weaknesses: Pui Pui is very smug, arrogant and confident in his own abilities, constantly gloating about how superior he is no matter how strong his opponents are.

Notable Attacks/Techniques:

Ki Blast ― The most basic form of energy wave.

Pui Pui Nice Shot ― Pui Pui unleashes a powerful energy sphere at the enemy.

 

[Dragomer]

Despite being smug, Pui Pui like to stack the deck in his favor, like when he fight Vegeta while thinking that since it's the same gravity as his home planete, he would be at an advantage, that could go into his 'inteligence' categorie, no ?

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Reasonable. Kilis SEEM inconsistent (although I think Goku could have suppressed himself) but we should note Pui Pui was rated as lesser than Yakon, who is 800 kilis. So Pui Pui is implied to be less than 40 million in power level.

If we scale based on that? He's either High 5-A or Low 4-C.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Also, can someone post scans of Shin being afraid of Pui Pui? I honestly don't recall him ever being afraid against Babidi's minions, only the saiyans going against them and dying.

 

[Dragomer]

Also, can someone post scans of Shin being afraid of Pui Pui? I honestly don't recall him ever being afraid against Babidi's minions, only the saiyans going against them and dying.

I don't remember if Shin was afraid of him but if he was, Shin said that any of the Kaioshin could have one shotted Freezer IIRC so he can't be at only 40 million.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Actually, I'm curious. Do we have any knowledge of whether Shin was aware of Frieza's further forms? To my understanding the only people that would have made Frieza transform are his father and Beerus. I mean Shin wasn't even aware of Goku, Vegeta and Gohan for crying out loud and they use Super Saiyan liberally, whereas Frieza very rarely ever transformed.

Shin could be afraid of Pui Pui (at a power of less than 40 million) but confident of one-shotting Frieza (at a power of 530 thousand) while also being amazed at the power of Goku, Vegeta and Gohan. So is there any indication that he was even aware of Frieza's further forms?

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Looking into it some more, Kibito Kai (the fusion of Shin and Kibito) was apparently deemed too weak to fight Super Buu. I'm not sure which Super Buu this was...it would have been before Buuhan so it was either Buutenks or Buutenks after Gotenks defused. So we at least know a fusion between Shin and Kibito is too weak to go against an enhanced Super Buu, whereas SS3 Gotenks can fight base Super Buu. So Goten and Trunks seem like they aren't super far off from the power of Shin and Kibito.

Also, for some reason Kibito Kai didn't just...swoop in and kill Kid Buu. Either this is PIS or Kibito Kai wasn't strong enough to handle Kid Buu, which would make Shin and Kibito much weaker than Goten and Trunks.

 

[ProudLearner]

Here is the Manga Scan: Here to page 6

Honestly, it looks like Shin is just overreacting because of PTSD.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Yeah I don't have the impression that he was afraid of Pui Pui in any shape or form. It seems like he was just concerned about the strength of Pui Pui relative to Vegeta's base form. I also haven't seen any arguments or information that shows Shin would be aware of Frieza's further forms so...I'm starting to think Shin is actually much weaker than I initially thought.

Like I've already said, Pui Pui's power level is supposedly less than 40 million due to Yakon having 800 kilis (which is 40 millionBP) and Pui Pui apparently being lesser to Yakon in Babidi's group. The Kili stuff is a bit inconsistent due to Goku only having a Kili of 3,000 in Super Saiyan, which would be only 150,000,000...obviously wrong as it implies SS Goku is no stronger than he was on Namek. Of course, Kilis are only defined as "1 Kili = 50,000 BP" in a V-Jump issue so that might be where it stems from. Alternatively, Goku was just holding back like he always does.

Overall, there is no argument that Pui Pui isn't somewhere between third form and fourth form Frieza but I'm not really seeing anything that indicates he would come even close to Frieza's 100%. Dwarf Star to Small Star range makes sense overall.

 

[AKM sama]

After reading the chapter again, I don't think Shin was actually scared of Pui Pui. He himself said that the Saiyans are the strongest in the universe and witnessed Gohan's power first-hand.

I think Shin only wanted them to fight together because he didn't want them to underestimate Babidi's magic and make it easier by saving strength for further fighters like Dabura.

 

[ZellTemplar55]

Pui Pui definitely weaker then Yakon, unknown how much, Yakon is 40 million PL which is 50% then final form Frieza, Yakon thus being small star+, just an estimate would put Pui Pui around small star but no + since he should be a little over 2 times weaker then Yakon, though I could see dwarf star+ being a possibility as well, a ranking of dwarf star+ to small star would likely be best and speed of MFTL (First form frieza scales to more then 300 times FTL but lower then 400 times)

 

[ProudLearner]

Bump

 

[AKM sama]

I don't think we can estimate Pui Pui's strength with the information present in the manga.

 

[ProudLearner]

I don't think we can estimate Pui Pui's strength with the information present in the manga.

Would that mean making a profile is pointless? Because I agree.

 

[AKM sama]

Ye

 

[ProudLearner]

Ye

You can close this thread since its pointless to make a Pui Pui profile.

 

[Kepekley23]

Kaioshin saw the M on Pui Pui's head and thought he was worth more than he really was.

 

[ProudLearner]

Its kinda hard to pin-point his tier because in the manga he had such a little spotlight

 

[CryoTheMayo]

It's probably fine to claim he is above third form Frieza based on the Killi rating stuff (inconsistent as it may be considered).

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Shin was definitely not scale of Pui Pui, and he got stomped by Vegeta's base form. But I think it's safe to say he shouldn't be any weaker than Frieza.

 

[AKM sama]

It's probably fine to claim he is above third form Frieza based on the Killi rating stuff (inconsistent as it may be considered).

Can you remind me Babidi's killi scaling again?

 

[CryoTheMayo]

1 Killi = 50,000 BP according to...I think the Daizenshuu? So Yakon was at 40 million with 800 Killi, Pui Pui is less than that. The reason why it's considered inconsistent is due to Goku being recorded at 3,000 Killi in Super Saiyan, which equates to only 150,000,000 BP. Albeit, I forget the context of that rating. Goku may have been holding back.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Let's not use Killi if that's the case because I'm positive it would be much higher than that. Daizenshuu has often forgot about Zenkai boosts or that Base form Goku has easily gotten much stronger now then he was in the previous scenarios. It can even bee debated that Base Goku is above Frieza or roughly at least Android Saga SSJ level roughly. The source comes from Base Gohan lifting the Z Sword when it's implied Shin can't and Goku withstanding a strike from the Z Sword wielded by Gohan.

 

[AKM sama]

It's too unreliable to scale from.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Still no evidence that Shin is aware of Frieza's true form though. You could argue he would have witnessed Goku vs Frieza in Namek but he very clearly didn't witness Cell vs Gohan on Earth, despite it concerning vastly more powerful beings and the person that defeated Frieza in the first place. To add further, Shin did not appear when Trunks broke cosmic law by abusing Time Travel, yet that incident also involved Frieza.

We have absolutely zero reason to believe Shin knows about Frieza's true power, just as he had no awareness of time travel, Cell or the powers of Gohan, Goku and Vegeta.

I agree Killi scaling is unreliable but I don't believe any scaling or statements actually put Base Goku and Gohan above or even near 100% Frieza.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Shin still has his own High 4-C feat, and that fact that Piccolo, who is far more powerful than 100% Frieza as well as stronger than Android 18 also considered Shin very powerful. The Z Sword feat is also very usable due to these.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

I wouldn't take Piccolo TOO seriously. Shin was going nuts over a weaker SS2 Gohan, whereas Piccolo scales to Android 17 before the seven year timeskip. It seems silly to claim Gohan is vastly more powerful than Piccolo when he didn't even train for those seven years and relied on Piccolo's training a year or two after the Buu Saga.

Piccolo was almost certainly detecting Shin's divinity, due to his link with Kami.

Out of curiosity, what is this High 4-C feat? I have never heard of it before.

 

[AKM sama]

I already went into detail about why Shin knows everything that went down with Freeza. (Clearly not the stuff after that.)

Anyway, we should close this thread.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

The Kaioshin created multiple stars, there's a link to it in Shin's profile. And the calc being used is in the comments section.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

1. Super Saiyan is a thousand year old myth. There is also a Super Saiyan God myth. Shin having awareness of said myth isn't farfetched.

2. Knowing their names has no reference to Shin being aware of Frieza's true power. In fact, it would be absurdly easy for Shin to learn of it. To memory, Sorbet and other Frieza soldiers were aware of Goku's existence,

3. Knowing Goku defeated Frieza has no relation to knowing their actual powers.

4. Shin was clearly not watching over Frieza. He did not stop or punish Trunks for time travelling, a direct violation of cosmic law.

At most, your arguments just support Shin learning of Frieza's defeat at the hands of a Saiyan. Not that he is aware of their power.

You would have to source Shin bringing up Frieza when using telepathy on Vegeta. As I am unaware of this statement.

This is going off-topic either way. Pui Pui can be Low 4-C or 4-C. It's highly unlikely that he is any higher.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

We aren't going to make Pui Pui that much higher than Frieza, but he'd definitely be superior to his 1st form at the very least. Pui Pui was also stomped by Base Vegeta yes. And I think the Pui Pui profile should probably be made before we close it.

 

[AKM sama]

Shin was not just aware of the "myth". He outright knew that the myth was a reality and knew for a fact that these saiyans can transform into it. That's why they asked Gohan directly to cut to the chase. He also came with a plan to stop Gohan from doing anything while Yamu and Spopovich sucked his energy, because he most likely was familiar with the power of a super saiyan. Only Gohan went SSJ2 and Shin stated that he is stronger than expected.

Not knowing about Trunks only means that he likely assumed Freeza died on Namek and didn't look further into it.

Plus, the dialogues were simply there to provide exposition about the current situation and Majin Buu's strength, which he compared to his own, and then to Freeza's, and clearly First Form Freeza isn't impressive for hyping up a new threat. Occam's razor. And that too to Vegeta. He wouldn't impress Vegeta, who thought about the power of the saiyans, by mentioning someone who was weaker than the base Saiyan he was talking to.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Shin was not just aware of the "myth". He outright knew that the myth was a reality and knew for a fact that these saiyans can transform into it

I didn't imply otherwise. I just said that they were myths that are over a thousand years old. Shin is millions of years old. It's not that insane to think he learned of the Super Saiyan myth and became aware of its existence as factual.

Not knowing about Trunks only means that he likely assumed Freeza died on Namek and didn't look further into it.

Then why was Shin watching Goku fighting Frieza on Namek? If that were the case, why didn't he stop watching when Frieza was hit by the Spirit Bomb? Or when Frieza dominated everyone on Namek? You are claiming he was observing it, with no proof, yet then turn around and claim he would suddenly become unaware of Frieza being alive for an entire year after the fact and would just assume Frieza died. If that were the case, he would have assumed Frieza died long before Goku went Super Saiyan or would have even assumed that Frieza just decimated everyone on Namek with no opposition.

Essentially speaking, you have to make endless assumptions to claim he was aware of Goku and Frieza fighting but not Trunks time-travelling and killing Frieza. Not to mention him having no awareness of Super Saiyan 2, despite it concerning the most powerful entities in the entire universe (barring Beerus, Whis and Buu).

Plus, the dialogues were simply there to provide exposition about the current situation and Majin Buu's strength, which he compared to his own, and then to Freeza's,

Yes. And Elder Kai hyped Potara to be permanent and stronger than the Fusion Dance, which has been contested and arguably debunked in Super. The Kais are consistently depicted as ignorant regarding the state of the universe and mortals in general and were often underplayed or depicted as foolish in the Buu saga and Super. In other words, their statements should always be questioned and taken with a grain of salt.

And clearly First Form Freeza isn't impressive for hyping up a new threat.

Frieza was the most powerful being in the entire universe, even in his first form (barring Beerus, Buu, Whis and maybe King Cold). Hyping him up as being a pathetic, tiny, ant compared to Majin Buu is absolutely impressive.

And that too to Vegeta. He wouldn't impress Vegeta, who thought about the power of the saiyans, by mentioning someone who was weaker than the base Saiyan he was talking to.

1. Shin has no reason to know about Frieza's strength

2. Vegeta would think Shin is aware of Frieza's strength, due to his status as a deity.

If anything, I'd argue you are violating Occam's razor by making all of these assumptions that Shin witnessed Frieza on Namek but not Frieza on Earth or Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, Trunks and Cell on Earth. There is no basis for Shin knowing Frieza's strength.

Now compare to Beerus claiming that Goku can not defeat Frieza in his base form. We know Frieza has fought Beerus beforehand and we know Beerus and Frieza shared an amicable relationship. We also know that Beerus was dismayed that Frieza had died...I think Beerus stated Frieza's strength in regards to that, but it's hard to say. To add further, Whis showed Goku and Frieza fighting in Super Saiyan and 100% respectively.

So we KNOW Beerus knows Frieza's full power and we know that Beerus believes Goku can not defeat Frieza in his base form. We do not know, however, whether or not Shin is aware of Frieza's various forms or his true strength. We only know that Shin estimates he could one-shot Frieza. If we apply Occam's razor we can claim that Shin was referring to Frieza's public form, his first form, rather than his true form which he almost never used prior to Namek.

Overall, Beerus' claims have far more weight due to him knowing Frieza's full power and contrasting it with Goku's base power. We do not know if Shin is aware of Frieza's other forms, only that he thinks he could one-shot Frieza which can only be based on Frieza's first form. Any other belief stems from assuming Shin watched Goku vs Frieza but then didn't watch the events with Mecha Frieza vs Trunks, the time travel or the fight between Gohan and Cell.

 

[AKM sama]

"Essentially speaking, you have to make endless assumptions to claim he was aware of Goku and Frieza fighting but not Trunks time-travelling and killing Frieza. Not to mention him having no awareness of Super Saiyan 2, despite it concerning the most powerful entities in the entire universe (barring Beerus, Whis and Buu)."

The stuff with spirit bomb happened in minutes. While after the fight it's unknown how much time went by until Freeza was finally put back together. You're making an analogy of two completely different situations, and I don't need to tell you how that's a fallacy. And yes, he was aware about them being super saiyans and being the strongest fighters in the universe, he said so himself. Why he didn't keep watch over them during the Cell saga is unknown.

"And Elder Kai hyped Potara to be permanent and stronger than the Fusion Dance"

Seriously? You're using that argument despite knowing that it was true at that time and only retconned later? SMH. Also, he never hyped up his own strengh and the info he dumped during that convo was all true. It was literally an info dump.

"Shin has no reason to know about Frieza's strength"

Yeaaaaaah because someone who is somewhat related to his GoD is obviously not worthy of his attention.

"Overall, Beerus' claims have far more weight due to him knowing Frieza's full power and contrasting it with Goku's base power."

Already debunked it for you and told you it was also debunked before. Please stop with this argumentum ad nauseum,

I don't have time to repeatedly answer your large walls of text that just bring up old stuff that has been discussed and put to rest before. Sorry. The current ratings won't change as they were finalized after very heavy discussion that spanned a few threads and several days.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

The stuff with spirit bomb happened in minutes. While after the fight it's unknown how much time went by until Freeza was finally put back together. You're making an analogy of two completely different situations, and I don't need to tell you how that's a fallacy. And yes, he was aware about them being super saiyans and being the strongest fighters in the universe, he said so himself. Why he didn't keep watch over them during the Cell saga is unknown.

The timespan doesn't matter. If Shin was watching, you can assume he would have stopped when he saw the Spirit Bomb 'kill' Frieza or that he didn't bother watching due to believing everyone on Namek would just die.

Again, those in space are aware that Frieza died to a saiyan. Shin learning of Frieza's demise isn't difficult. To add further, King Kai knows everything that happened and is a subordinate to Shin. It's feasible for Shin to have learned of it from many sources. Shin also would consider them the strongest in the universe for defeating 1st form Frieza, considering 1st form Frieza was stronger than anyone else.

Ah, yes. So you can claim Shin was watching 4th form Frieza vs Goku but not Gohan vs Cell?

Seriously? You're using that argument despite knowing that it was true at that time and only retconned later?

...AKM. You do realize this entire argument stems from Beerus stating that Base Goku can't beat Frieza, right? The same argument would apply here that we took Shin's word at face value but then dismiss it due to a 'retcon'.

Stating that it's 'all true' is based upon your own subjective belief. In-universe we have absolutely zero reason to believe Shin is aware of Frieza's full strength. Out of universe we could claim author intent, even so Beerus still states Goku can not defeat Frieza in his base form, which is also author intent.

So what is it? Is Shin right because Toriyama intended for it? Is Beerus right because Toriyama intended it?

Already debunked it for you and told you it was also debunked before. Please stop with this argumentum ad nauseum,

It isn't 'debunked'. Your entire argument is based purely on headcanon. The only 'point' you would have is that we were meant to take Shin's word at face value, in which case why wouldn't we take Beerus's word at face value? Nothing contradicts his claim that Base Goku can't defeat 100% Frieza. It's your own bias.

I don't have time to repeatedly answer your large walls of text that just bring up old stuff that has been discussed and put to rest before.

In other words you know you are wrong and have no argument.

Sorry. The current ratings won't change as they were finalized after very heavy discussion that spanned a few threads and several days.

I'm not trying to change anything. I don't give a damn about CRTs on this wiki. Most CRTs stem from illogical and stupid rationale from biased persons in the first place. I'm only here to discuss and argue my favourite fictions on a large platform which focuses on conflict, this wiki. I may contribute to CRTs to learn more but I have zero interest in actively pursuing and creating CRTs.

Thus far, you have made no arguments against me that adequately disprove my points, or even challenge them. I find it childish that you think dismissing the entire argument would make you 'right' or automatically make me believe that I am wrong. That's the entire point of debate, right? Proving one party is wrong and convincing them of this? Well, you failed.

 

[AKM sama]

Already told you I'm not gonna continuously answer your walls of text, provoke me all you want. We'll just agree to disagree if you're being wilfully ignorant.

On the topic of this thread, @DDM I don't think we have enough info on how to rate Pui Pui. His only feat is getting stomped by base Vegeta and surviving 10x gravity.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Hmm, I see then. I guess you can close the thread if you want.

 

[AKM sama]

At the very least he would be at least planet level, unknown I guess.

 

[ProudLearner]

I edited the rough draft let me know what you guys think!

 

[ProudLearner]

Bump