Prototype Downgrades

[DeathNoodles]

@Death Regenerating at a cellular level and regenerating from a single cell arent the same thing

Why so?

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Why so?

Regenerating at a cellular level is something regular humans do, as cells die and are replaced microscopically every second of the day.

Regenerating from a single or small cluster of cells is not.

 

[Migue79]

Here is my calc.

@DMUA, could you please evaluate it and instruct any changes accordingly?

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

@Dargoo

Understandable @ Gas cloud infection

@Death

True. But at the same time it could just be lack of interest in using the ability too much. PIS can't defend everything Alex can do. Anyway I won't push the issue as long as it's acknowledged as it's not his go to ability since if we say Alex Mercer can use any knowledge he can, even the first game would be littered with PIS on how he could've finished the entire game.

 

[DeathNoodles]

Regenerating at a cellular level is something regular humans do, as cells die and are replaced microscopically every second of the day.

Regenerating from a single or small cluster of cells is not.

Reforming from a small cluster of cells shouldn't be too far of an assumption due to the Low-High Regenerationn feats.

Also, I suggest that we wait for more calculations before we can continue any further for this thread.

 

[DeathNoodles]

True. But at the same time it could just be lack of interest in using the ability too much. PIS can't defend everything Alex can do. Anyway I won't push the issue as long as it's acknowledged as it's not his go to ability since if we say Alex Mercer can use any knowledge he can, even the first game would be littered with PIS on how he could've finished the entire game.

It all depends on the situations, but it can be assumed he would start unleashing gasses in most cases due to his goal of infecting everything with even ordinary civilians not being safe from such ambition of infection, especially in an non-isolated environment with people walking around. Eh, we've already discussed about this before, so we don't need to continue about this point any further.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

Nah not really. PIS or not, his confrontation with military and James pre-infected implied him being arrogant and cocky to humans. It's not his go-to but he WILL use it though I agree.

Also agreed

 

[DeathNoodles]

Like I said, it depends on the situation, including environmental factors as long as we try to overlook the PIS-littered nonsense in the scenes, but fair enough.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Here is my calc.
@DMUA, could you please evaluate it and instruct any changes accordingly?

I'll comment for issues on the scene, but even if it's accepted it seems to be a massive outlier to any other feats they've shown.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I'll comment for issues on the scene, but even if it's accepted it seems to be a massive outlier to any other feats they've shown.

That's literally the last feat in the Series though. It would just be the God-Tier Character who can do that.

 

[Schnee_One]

To be fair, this is Heller after merging with Alex

He's the absolute god tier of the verse

 

[DeathNoodles]

I'll comment for issues on the scene, but even if it's accepted it seems to be a massive outlier to any other feats they've shown.

It was a feat explicitly done by Heller by the end of the game right after he absorbed Mercer, and by that point, Heller has defeated pretty much any type of opponent he was faced with previously. I don't see it being an outlier when the AP and Lifting Strength of the feat wasn't contradicted after that as the Prototype 2 game pretty much ended by that point.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Its also after the second game and we aknowledge that mercer and heller grow unquantifiably stronger with everything they consume, so mercer is logically far above his previous incarnation dureing prototype 1, plus in p2 heller becomes completetly bullet proof via one of his mutations

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

It was a feat explicitly done by Heller by the end of the game right after he absorbed Mercer, and by that point, Heller has defeated pretty much any type of opponent he was faced with previously. I don't see it being an outlier when the AP and Lifting Strength of the feat wasn't contradicted after that as the Prototype 2 game pretty much ended by that point.

I see the problem when they have, literally, not a single feat that is within multiple orders of magnitude of this.

I'd seriously reccomend reading our Outlier page over again. Just because someone is the strongest in a verse does not mean they aren't liable to having outliers.

 

[DeathNoodles]

I see the problem when they have, literally, not a single feat that is within multiple orders of magnitude of this.

There are no further feats of what Heller could do after he has absorbed Mercer as he wiped out every single infected by the end of the game, with the game ending a bit after he has performed that feat. There is no anti-feat in regards to AP or Lifting Strength for post-Mercer Heller when he absorbed Mercer after that, so I doubt there can be a contradiction that deems it as an outlier.

 

[ByAsura]

I agree with most of these points. I'll post feats and reasonings later.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

I'm unsure about the last part with the feat, but then again it could be a note on it being the peak tier. But yeah, nerfing of stats, removal of Power null res and nerf of regen are solid to me.

Thank you for taking your time checking this verse Dargoo

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

There are no further feats of what Heller could do after he has absorbed Mercer as he wiped out every single infected by the end of the game, with the game ending a bit after he has performed that feat.

Except we have all the feats Mercer and Alex have performed up to this point, which don't get remotely close to this.

He only absorbs Alex, and we have no objective numbers on how much power he gains from absorbing Alex, so it could be anything less than his power + Alex's power. Even being as generous as humanly possible, his best feats below this is literally orders of magnitudes of orders of magnitudes lower than this.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Well he didn't just eat alex, he ate alex who had just eaten eight evolved comparable to his p1 self and heller unlike mercer gains the ability to completely ignore bullets within his game.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Well he didn't just eat alex, he ate alex who had just eaten eight evolved comparable to his p1 self and heller unlike mercer gains the ability to completely ignore bullets within his game.

I don't think you understand what orders of magnitude of difference constitute.

Although if the best he gained was completely ignoring bullets at that point, I'm going on a limb and saying this is even more of an outlier.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

i do just pointing out he didn't simply eat mercer, he ate a supremely buffed mercer at the end of his franchise. I only mentioned the bullets feat because I figured that was considered and anti feat.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

Alright.

 

[Schnee_One]

@Pen He wasn't even shot when he absorbed Mercer so not sure you mean

 

[DeathNoodles]

I don't think you understand what orders of magnitude of difference constitute.

Although if the best he gained was completely ignoring bullets at that point, I'm going on a limb and saying this is even more of an outlier.

Gaining an upgrade that ignores bullets completely is actually a game mechanics upgrade, and being hurt by bullets is more of an anti-feat gameplay mechanics that doesn't seem to be consistent with the rest of the durability feats from the cutscene. The feats from the cutscenes can be ranged beyond just ignoring bullets.

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

In game you can get a mutation that makes you completely immune to bullets, they just bounce off you.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I like how everyone forgot Mercer could One-Shot the Military Bases in Prototype 1 if he gained sufficient enough Height and Bullet Dropped onto them.

 

[ByAsura]

That's called gameplay. Also, they explode in the same effect.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

snip

Alright. So I'm not sure how this makes Heller's feat any less of an outlier.

I like how everyone forgot Mercer could One-Shot the Military Bases in Prototype 1 if he gained sufficient enough Height and Bullet Dropped onto them.

Neat. Can you source this, please?

 

[ByAsura]

9-A to 8-C is extremely consistent in Prototype.

• Mercer tanks falling hard enough to produce a crater and lift cars.
• Mercer blocks a grenade with his sword arm and is unharmed by a point-blank an FGM Javelin missile launcher.
• A heavily weakened and injured early game Mercer tanks a rocket from a helicopter.
• Early game Mercer tanks the destruction of his former girlfriend's apartment.
• Mercer smashed through a two-foot steel door.
• Green exercises her biomass manipulation on a wall, shattering it.
• Hunters one shot tanks by falling.
• Mercer is unharmed by an exploding Bloodtox tank.
• Infected are stated to have the power to destroy P2 bases, even showing it in a memory.
• Captain Cross orders Blackwatch to use the heaviest gear on hand and an airstrike to kill Mercer, and even that might not work.
• Post-Prototype 1 Mercer tanks a helicopter explosion.
• Prototype 2 Mercer throws a van hard enough to one shot an A.P.C.
• Heller tanks an explosion large enough to destroy part of a skyscraper. Note the exit hole is already there in game, so it's not the same as the section Galloway destroyed.
• At Heller's weakest level of power, he survives fire bombardment that vaporizes Walkers, though he's almost killed and likely would've died if he didn't have immense endurance.

According to WoG, the producer of Prototype intended Mercer to be at this level

• "Well. We intended Alex to be...well one of the most powerful characters in video game if you believe it. We made him powerful enough to lift cars, tanks, destroy buildings and even kicking helicopters off the air. Fast enough to outrun even the fastest vehicles. I think it's safe to say that we did a pretty good job in doing so (chuckles)" - Tim Bennison

Weaponry is also consistently at this level, and generally unable to kill Prototypes or Evolved.

• If you fail the destroy all the convoys in one mission, they will destroy Dana's apartment (I can't find a scene of this online, you're going to have to take my word for this). In Prototype 2, Blackwatch also prepares to destroy her apartment when Heller arrives in the Red Zone.
• A barrage of weapons collapse a large church.
• Normal weaponry one shots an air plane.
• Just these charges destroy a large base.
• A bombardment of thermobaric missles would destroy Manhatta, and later all of New York.
• Here's the projections of said missiles.

That part about the bomb being comparable to the bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki is wrong. It was stated to make either of them look like a firecracker in comparison, and was later estimated to be 5x stronger than Little Boy. In an alternate ending, it destroyed Manhattan completely from the surrounding waters.

Their devastators should be way higher. It's explicitly a release of biomass and has feats way beyond their normal showings, such as destroying lairs and covering the entirety of Manhatta.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Also, how much force does it take to completely reverse and reflect a Rocket Launcher's Missile back at it's Shooter? Because Heller can do that at the beginning of the game and Alex has that same Shield ability.

 

[Schnee_One]

How do you one shot a military base that doesn't even make sense

A military base isn't done fortress of Durability its a base, comprised of Tanks and vehicles

 

[ByAsura]

Military bases in Protype 1 have a main building where all the personel are. That's what they're referring to.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

@ByAsura Thanks for the breadth of feats.

I will note that the WoG doesn't really give much context to 'destroy buildings'; it's been determined in various threads that you actually don't need 8-C AP to demolish buidings. 9-B to 9-A AP attacking structures at the bottom or top of the building and destabalizing it is a thing.

A lot of the feats there don't seem to be 8-C or 9-A, but it's good to have them for context.

Fair enough on the nukes, though, I'll admit I undersold their potency.

 

[Schnee_One]

Military bases in Protype 1 have a main building where all the personel are. That's what they're referring to.

Those are infantry bunkers, I can guarantee you they aren't that impressive

 

[ByAsura]

@Dargoo No problem. I understand destroying buildings is vague, the size isn't specified either. The lower feats were more supporting evidence, given they're mostly casual or done in heavily weakened states.

@Schnee Ok.

 

[Schnee_One]

BTW, if our Abrams page is anything to go by, one shotting an Abrams is High 8C

Just saying

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Mercer oneshots them with his blade power upgraded (and using a leaping attack) and two shots them with most anything else... He also casually chucks one across a city block in one cutscene iirc.

 

[Dargoo_Faust]

BTW, if our Abrams page is anything to go by, one shotting an Abrams is High 8C

That's a bit misleading. It's for shattering/dusting the entire tank into tiny bits or pieces. You'd basically need to prove that Mercer fragmented every single piece of metal in the tank into bits, which he doesn't really do in any of these feats.

(Heck, one of the feats actually has the tank fully in-tact, it just gets sent flying)

 

[The_pen_or_the_sword]

Fair they kinda just...Explode when he hits them hard which is odd.

 

[ByAsura]

Should we get into multipliers, by the way? There actually is a viable method of using them without wank.