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Prototype 1 AP/Lifting Strength Revision

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Reference 1. Revising Alex Mercer only at this time.

Feats​

  1. Alex busting through two feet of steel: 9-A (4.41x under 8-C)
  2. Alex tanking helicopter missiles and tank shells : 9-A (less than #1)
  3. Alex scaling above Supreme Hunter who can tank several heavy bombs: 8-C, 2.01x baseline
  4. Alex consuming Greene who's durable enough to minimize thermobaric missile energy: 8-B, 1.03x under 8-A
  5. Alex consuming Greene who created seismic activity in Times Square: 8-A, 2.08x under Low 7-C, 4.8x above baseline
Note: The first two feats are his first chronological feats for the game with no powers. The last three are end-game. There's no quantifiable mid-game feats, just a lot of consuming.

Multipliers (Beyond his powerless state)

  1. Musclemass base ability is a two-fold multiplier, fully upgraded is even higher
  2. Even higher with the Blade Ability, which is his strongest offensive power (other than devastators)
  3. Shield absorbs all damage on impact, preserving all health until it breaks and has to regenerate.
  4. Armor increases damage resistance at the cost of mobility.
  5. Hammerfist - unknown amount higher than Musclemass
Blade > Hammerfist >Musclemass > Claws > Whipfist > Base
Shield > Armor > Base

Lifting Strength​

  1. Alex busting through 2 feet of steel is a Class M feat regardless of application
  2. Alex can lift tanks and helicopters, which is Class K
  3. Created the Goliath after starting a new infection, which Heller was able to drag the Goliath (Class K) and pull its head off (Class M). Alex is comparable to Heller and should be able to replicate the feat.

Resulting Tier​

Alex Mercer:
AP: 8-A+ in base, Low 7-C with Musclemass, higher with Blade, Hammerfist and devastators
Durability: 8-A+ in base, Low 7-C with Musclemass, higher with armor and shield
Lifting Strength: Class M
 
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This'll definitely be interesting. As long as these are all Calc'd and Accepted then I guess they make sense to me.
 
When I said “are all accepted”, I meant that not a single calculation mentioned are non-evaluated.

The Hunter Weight calculation is the only one that isn’t evaluated yet, so the overall calcs shown here are technically not “all accepted” yet.
 
When I said “are all accepted”, I meant that not a single calculation mentioned are non-evaluated.

The Hunter Weight calculation is the only one that isn’t evaluated yet, so the overall calcs shown here are technically not “all accepted” yet.
Can't use the Hunter calc so everything is accepted.
 
Because musclemass boost (the fully upgraded power) was stated to greatly enhance the power of the regular 2x multiplier.
Yeah, but where is the multiplier coming from? If it's just in-game saying something like "do x2 damage with this ability" we don't really treat that as a multiplier because of game mechanics.
 
Yeah, but where is the multiplier coming from? If it's just in-game saying something like "do x2 damage with this ability" we don't really treat that as a multiplier because of game mechanics.
I mean, the thing is, Musclemass ability actually has a significant effect on the environment when Alex uses it (with the Player playing as him) that backs up the in-game description of it. This wiki about Musclemass would describe what they all do to make the explanations short. It actually provides a significant difference not only in striking strength (hits harder) and lifting strength (throws harder), but it even amps up the overall AP as well (all the combat abilities of Alex are increased when using Musclemass, which includes Devastators as well, which supports the in-game description of “all strike attacks carry more damage”), so the description isn’t inapplicable or inaccurate when it stated the amp in regards to it being used in combat.
 
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Yeah, but where is the multiplier coming from? If it's just in-game saying something like "do x2 damage with this ability" we don't really treat that as a multiplier because of game mechanics.
"Musclemass Power: Increases strength twofold. THROWS go further and all STRIKE attacks carry more damage."

"Musclemass Boost: Greatly increase the damage of your MUSCLEMASS attacks, hitting for yet more increased damage with basic hand to hand attacks."
 
By the way it's worded I guess x2 is fine, but x4 isn't because just because it's stronger doesn't mean it's a multiplier.
 
So the Musclemass upgrades would be unquantifiably above 2x (which is the baseline Musclemass ability without upgrades) then?

I guess 2x Musclemass amp at its absolute minimum should be fine then, considering it’s a 2x amp even without any upgrades.

I’m heading off to bed now. I’ll leave Ions to handle the rest of the CRT for now.
 
By the way it's worded I guess x2 is fine, but x4 isn't because just because it's stronger doesn't mean it's a multiplier.
🤨 but that’s how getting stronger works. Also as far as the game is concerned using the regular musclemass ability, you need to charge attacks to reduce people to paste, and fully upgraded even a glancing blow explodes the person.
 
Some mathematically unquantifiable multiplier sure, but not a x4 one. Is just stronger by an unknown extent.
 
I couldn’t find it but the 2x boost was a reasonable assumption. Elite boxers have been recorded to punch over 2x harder than novice boxers. That’s about the difference between your hardest thrown punch being somebody’s casual jab. Untrained punchers vs the lightest class of boxers have a force difference of over 3x.

Being able to blow somebody up with a charged attack versus a casual blow is of a significant boost.

Base Mercer’s charged attacks can’t do it. Basic musclemass charged attack can.

Base < Charged Base <= 2x boost (musclemass) < charged musclemass = MM Boost < MM Boost charged

If Level 1 Musclemass is casually as strong as base Mercer’s charged attacks, then charged attacks are 2x stronger than uncharged attacks, not accounting for any boost.
 
Well, it is baseless because you're basing it on intuition and not hard evidence that comes from the work itself.
 
That’s not how you use intuition. And DragonBall multipliers to find Super Saiyan’s power was derived from kaioken multipliers + percentages of Frieza’s power then saying “close enough” because it was similar to the stated 50x multiplier in outside sources.

This is the same process.
 
Ok, you don't seem to understand. I'm not debating you, this isn't a matter of opinion, I'm just telling you that's not how you get multipliers on this site. If you disagree with this, make a CRT and change the standard and come back or make another CRT to add it again.

Otherwise, this isn't going anywhere.
 
Ok, you don't seem to understand. I'm not debating you, this isn't a matter of opinion, I'm just telling you that's not how you get multipliers on this site. If you disagree with this, make a CRT and change the standard and come back or make another CRT to add it again.

Otherwise, this isn't going anywhere.
I’m fine with your suggestion but you’re telling me something is fact and I just proved that idea wrong with another verse that is built upon doing something you say no verse does.
 
I agree with pretty much everything here. But Ogbunabali makes sense to me tbh. The first multiplier has enough evidence to be treated as such. But without more direct explanation to describe a further multiplier, we cant just assume another 2x multiplier on top of that, even if it gives different visuals, it's still unquantifiably more.
 
I agree with pretty much everything here. But Ogbunabali makes sense to me tbh. The first multiplier has enough evidence to be treated as such. But without more direct explanation to describe a further multiplier, we cant just assume another 2x multiplier on top of that, even if it gives different visuals, it's still unquantifiably more.
2x it is.
 
Maybe?
One more wouldn’t hurt I guess.

Just in case, we also need to list what changes we need to do for Alex and the affected characters linked to him in this CRT as well.
 
Elizhaa was supposed to comment but idk when that's going to happen.
Maybe?
One more wouldn’t hurt I guess.

Just in case, we also need to list what changes we need to do for Alex and the affected characters linked to him in this CRT as well.
Going to make a separate CRT for everybody else, just taking care of the most important profile right now.
 
I mean, we can kill several birds with one stone by applying those AP and LS in some other Prototype characters based on this CRT alone, since they are heavily linked by scaling to Alex Mercer himself.

You can have a separate CRT that deals with the P2 scaling and P2 AP/LS feats by then.

So far, aside from Alex Mercer, the other characters affected by this change would be end-game James Heller, end-game Supreme Hunter, and Elizabeth Greene (who should now be consistently one of the top-tiers after this CRT). The rest of the characters (outside of minor changes to P1 characters such as the LS of Hunters, Super Soldiers, Evolved, and Goliaths), we leave them as is for now.
 
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