Promised CRT for Naruto verse SPSC users

[Omimi]

Limited Invulnerability: "Able to negate the effects of abilities used on them that aren't Senjutsu based but vulnerable to taijutsu/Physical attacks ."

just need to add bold

 

[Mindovin]

Energy attacks and Nature Energy (there are people doesn't know the meaning of the word) more accurate imo.

Like.

Limited Invulnerability: "Able to negate the effects of energy attacks used on them that don't contain nature energy/physical attacks."

Someone know how we generalize the SPC?

 

[AstralKing7]

Limited Invulnerability I agree with. But to what extent? They aren't invulnerable to Physical attacks.
How's:

Limited Invulnerability: "Able to negate the effects of abilities used on them that aren't Senjutsu based."

So like, They's be immune to the "Avada Kadabra" spell for example.

yeah that sounds good...they could also negate the effects of certain existence erasure attacks that use energy like a certain fire sword.....

 

[KinkiestSins]

This probably only applies to elemental attacks.

And even then, has it been shown to be used on other ninjutsu? A statement is nice and all, but the assumption here is that it can absorb every ninjutsu in existence, which I have yet to see concrete proof on this.

Can I have a scan of this resisting all ninjutsu displayed in action?

If not, we go by what is shown, not by what we can assume.

 

[AstralKing7]

what are you talking about?? Yin Yang release doesnt absorb jutsu it negates any and everything that doesnt have nature energy in it, in other words sage chakra. Databook even confirms this also and statements from people like hokages and we seen it in action.

 

[KinkiestSins]

what are you talking about?? Yin Yang release doesnt absorb jutsu it negates any and everything that doesnt have nature energy in it, in other words sage chakra. Databook even confirms this also and statements from people like hokages and we seen it in action.

But what has it been shown to this be invulnerable too?

IMO, we just should just assume it applies to all ninjutsu that has been shown.

I also couldn't tell because the grammar in this thread was hurting my eyes.

Or honestly, it could just be really good resistance.

It is hard to tell personally.

If we are on the same page, I wanna say I lean to no, I don't see invulnerability here.

 

[Dzhindzholia]

"Or honestly, it could just be really good resistance."

It is invulnutbility to any energy based attack that does not contain natural energy.

 

[KinkiestSins]

"Or honestly, it could just be really good resistance."
It is invulnutbility to any energy based attack that does not contain natural energy.

I will say two things and jet, (Although more staff eyes on this will be nice)

1. Invulnerability to any energy-based attack that does not contain natural energy is very vague.

If we are going by jutsu ninjutsu, it just seems to only at best apply to spiritual energy.

And if you set that aside, I stand by my statement on it should only work for attacks it has been shown to work on. IE: Water Based attacks, fire etc.

2. Our invulnerability page is one of many that just needs to be revised, it is already vague and somewhat outdated imo.

 

[AstralKing7]

Its shown to negate any jutsu that isnt enhanced with sage chakra. It has even negated known non attack type jutsus like the edo tensei which can regenerate over and over but stopped when when a TSB hit it. Its also invulnerable to anything that isnt senjutsu enhanced. Do you know how the naruto verse works cause i wont lie im tired of repeating myself when this is accepted already.

 

[KinkiestSins]

Its shown to negate any jutsu that isnt enhanced with sage chakra. It has even negated known non attack type jutsus like the edo tensei which can regenerate over and over but stopped when when a TSB hit it. Its also invulnerable to anything that isnt senjutsu enhanced. Do you know how the naruto verse works cause i wont lie im tired of repeating myself when this is accepted already.

Yes, I have read the manga.

I am just being conservative.

If you are invulnerable, you are invulnerable with no strings attached CURRENTLY.

I plan to make a CRT in the future regarding this and a few other powers that just need to be changed.

But it would be invulnerable based on what is shown.

And if I did accept your argument, better wording would say.

Limited Invulnerability- Able to negate spiritual effects from Ninjutsu from hurting the user that is not imbued with physical energy or natural energy.

It would on a few magic users, but it wont work on MHA Quirks, Devil Fruits, X-Gene's, Abilities etc.

The first definition sounds a little too nlfy and broad.

 

[Mindovin]

Chakra is physical energy+spiritual energy and ninjutsu doesn't separate them.

 

[AstralKing7]

the first definition is already on their profiles because TSBs can negate any energy based attack that isnt enhanced by sage chakra. It will work on anything because of verse equalization.

 

[KinkiestSins]

Chakra is physical energy+spiritual energy and ninjutsu doesn't separate them.

If it was physical energy no sold, it would not nullify taijutsu. Which as far as I am concerned, was answered in this thread.

If it is a combination, then you have to assume it only works for a verse with an energy similar to ninjutsu.

Which I cant think of one.

Assuming you are right, then yeah, it will work on Ninjutsu, and thus attacks based with Physical and Spiritual Energy.

NOT, abilities working with both.

Otherwise, we run into issues with the taijutsu thing.

But yeah, I will wait for more staff opinions before I comment further.

 

[KinkiestSins]

the first definition is already on their profiles because TSBs can negate any energy based attack that isnt enhanced by sage chakra. It will work on anything because of verse equalization.

That is not how verse equalization works.

If you have the ability that is anti-magic, but it only works for one verse, you can't assume it rolls over to the other verse.

I can name one verse that has this exact same circumstance, Eragon.

And we dont except he can nullify all magic.

And even assuming he can, it only works with attacks with Physical AND Spiritual Energy

Because that is how ninjutsu works.

 

[LordGinSama]

I think Sins seems to make sense with his proposal here

 

[AstralKing7]

it doesnt nullify taijutsu and i think i said that up above in another comment. Proven when Gai beat the living senjutsu out of Madara

Verse equalization means it doesnt matter if the verse doesnt have chakra. If its a energy based skill without sage chakra it gets negated

 

[KinkiestSins]

it doesnt nullify taijutsu and i think i said that up above in another comment. Proven when Gai beat the living senjutsu out of Madara
Verse equalization means it doesnt matter if the verse doesnt have chakra. If its a energy based skill without sage chakra it gets negated

You literally just missed my point.

Does it nullify Ninjutsu, correct?

So it will work on energy made of both spiritual and physical energy. My point is if it negated only physical energy, it would have nullified taijutsu

Considering it can't do that, it can't nullify just spiritual as well.

Ergo, it won't work on Kido, it won't work on FT magic, it won't work on devil fruits, it won't work on quirks.

It has to be this specific combination as outlined above and that is assuming it does work that way.

Verse equalization implies that if you something is similar in one verse, it transfers to the other.

So if this was to be applied, it will indeed work on abilities with spiritual and physical energy.

Not just spiritual or physical energy.

 

[Frantzy12]

I agree with Sins for now he makes the most sense for invulnerability.

 

[Mindovin]

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Chakra

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Ninjutsu

http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Nature_Transformation

 

[Omimi]

@ KinkiestSins

so u are saying they can only null what they have shown right

 

[AstralKing7]

um yes that is how verse equalization works lol. Standard battle assumptions. We accepted yin yang release being able to nullify any jutsu without sage chakra because of all the proof, feats and statement we got of it. If you guys dont believe make a CRT for but i already know the outcome

 

[AlexSoloVaAlFuturo]

"Taijutsu (õ¢ôÞíô, Literally meaning: Body Techniques) is a basic form of techniques and refers to any techniques involving the martial arts or the optimisation of natural human abilities. Taijutsu is executed by directly accessing the user's physical and mental energies, relying on the stamina and strength gained through training. It typically does not require chakra, though chakra may be used to enhance its techniques. Taijutsu generally requires no hand seals to perform, occasionally making use of certain stances or poses, and are far quicker to use than ninjutsu or genjutsu. Taijutsu is simply put: hand-to-hand combat."

This is from here: http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Taijutsu

Physical energy =/= taijutsu

 

[KinkiestSins]

um yes that is how verse equalization works lol. Standard battle assumptions. We accepted yin yang release being able to nullify any jutsu without sage chakra because of all the proof, feats and statement we got of it. If you guys dont believe make a CRT for but i already know the outcome

First off, I already stated even if this was the case, it will only work on spiritual and physical energy abilities.

I stated assuming it does, it will only work on attacks/techniques with physical and spiritual energy.

NOT, just physical energy.

NOT, just spiritual energy.

Because it hasn't been shown to nullify just spiritual energy or just physical energy attacks.

It nullifies jutsu, great! But jutsu itself uses chakra, which is spiritual and physical energy.

In other words, to add this invulnerability, it will only work for abilities that apply to spiritual energy and physical energy combined to make chakra.

And considering he cant block Taijutsu, which is just physical energy, then that means it will read like this.


Limited Invulnerability- Is invulnerable jutsu from chakra sources, which is spiritual and physical energy together.

 

[KinkiestSins]

snip

Your quote literally also just stated that Taijutsu had physical energy in it.

So if it did apply as intended, then that means that Taijutsu should be nullified if this was 'true invulnerability'.

Considering it wasn't and it uses 'physical energy', then that must mean it doesn't nullify sources from either physical energy compositions by itself or those with physical energy and 'mental energy' (what ever that means),

In other words, if this invulnerability is legitimate, verse equalization states it will only work with abilities based on spiritual AND physical energy.

It has to be that very specific combination for your invulnerability to activate.

 

[Mindovin]

When someone using chakra for whatever purpose they don't separate physical and spiritual energy. If you somehow separate them then that is not chakra, to begin with as this established in the series.

 

[Omimi]

only Senjutsu and taijutsu work on RSM user that was proven and that was the whole plot point against jubito.

if they can only null/invulnerability what they have shown then i am sure not even 1 vers will have full power null and invulnerability cuz there 1000000000....................................... powers


so if we are going to use statmant for some verse but going to discard statmant for naruto vere = no offence but that would be double standard

 

[KinkiestSins]

When someone using chakra for whatever purpose they don't separate physical and spiritual energy. If you somehow separate them then that is not chakra, to begin with as this established in the series.

Thats my point. If it nullifies ninjutsu, then it works with the combination of physical and spiritual energy.

It doesn't work if you separated the energies, which is important to verse equalization.

If someone has one only (IE They use spiritual energy), they wont be invulnerable.

Same with just physical energy.

 

[KinkiestSins]

only Senjutsu and taijutsu work on RSM user that was proven and that was the whole plot point
against jubito.

You are not separating the energies used to make ninjutsu in the first place.

Which is important.

If you want to say it is invulnerability, fine, but it will only work for abilities with Physical and Spiritual Energy.

If you want that specifically, fine.

It isn't that hard to understand.

Ninjutsu = Physical + Spiritual energy sources.

If you take away one, it is not ninjutsu.

This ability only works for ninjutsu, which itself is physical + spiritual energy.

Ergo, it is invulnerability limited to techniques based on physical and spiritual energy.

 

[Mindovin]

Verse equalization mostly cares about they just same with different properties energy, sometimes it includes special properties like Reiatsu(?)=Spiritual energy aspect of chakra this doesn't mean in Bleach vs Naruto, Naruto characters lost their physical energy aspect of chakra.

 

[KinkiestSins]

Verse equalization mostly cares about they just same with different properties energy, sometimes it includes special properties like Reiatsu(?)=Spiritual energy aspect of chakra this doesn't mean in Bleach vs Naruto, Naruto characters lost their physical energy aspect of chakra.

No, but if someone with Reiatsu tried to attack someone with this ability, it will still work.

Why? Because it is just spiritual energy.

It will work on some abilities, maybe Fairy Tail because it uses Physical energy from the Soul.

So that might work.

But it won't just work on just spiritual or just physical energy.

It has to be that specific combination

Otherwise, if just the components mattered, then Taijutsu wouldn't have hurt Madara.

 

[Omimi]

u are ignoring number 2

both statmant came from tobirama

1. it nullifies ninjutsu /ninjutsu does not work on jubito

2.only senjutsu work on them

 

[KinkiestSins]

snip

Only Senjutsu works on him in the naruto verse.

That is like me saying only Nen Users can hurt other Nen users.

It is literally the same as Reiastu hax gg in Bleach.

You can't just say "only this works.", that is blatant NLF.

Also, Taijutsu works.

So I guess he is wrong here.

And even if he wasn't wrong, the components of Senjutsu is Physical, Spiritual and Natural Energy.

So again, this goes back to the energy sources of techniques again.

So with stated above, if you are using physical or spiritual attacks by itself, you are in the clear.

Physical, Spiritual and Natural energy attacks, you are in the clear.

Physical and Spiritual Energy based attacks, your abilities will be nullified.

It isn't that hard to understand, it works.

But only for that combination of energy sources.

 

[Omimi]

if we use your logic

1.Almighty will only work on Spiritual energy and it cant do anything to chakra/ Natural energy / physical energy/ ki

2.hakai will only work on ki energy and it cant do anything to chakra chakra/ Natural energy / physical energy/Spiritual energy

3.TSB will only work on what ever u said energy and it cant do anything to ki / Physical energy /etc

 

[AlexSoloVaAlFuturo]

"Chakra is created when two other forms of energy, known collectively as one's "stamina", are moulded together. Physical energy (Þ║½õ¢ôÒé¿ÒâìÒâ½Òé«Òâ╝, shintai enerug─½) is collected from each and every one of the body's cells and can be increased through training, stimulants, and exercise. Spiritual energy (þ▓¥þÑ×Òé¿ÒâìÒâ½Òé«Òâ╝, seishin enerug─½, English TV: Mental Energy) is derived from the mind's consciousness and can be increased through studying, meditation, and experience. These two energies becoming more powerful will in turn make the created chakra more powerful. Therefore, practising a technique repeatedly will build up experience, increasing one's spiritual energy, and thus allowing more chakra to be created. As a result, the ninja is able to do that same technique with more power. This same cycle applies for physical energy, except the ninja needs to increase their endurance instead. Some unique individuals have substantial potential that enable them to exponentially increase their chakra reserves in a relatively short amount of time."

This is from here:http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Chakra

"Taijutsu is executed by directly accessing the user's physical and mental energies, relying on the stamina and strength gained through training."

That being said, taijutsu is hand to hand combat that use physical and mental energies to a extend, but it isn't necesarilly use chakra. Obito has show that his ability block/null ninjutsu, not taijutsu.

"Ninjutsu (Õ┐ìÞíô, Literally meaning: Ninja Techniques) is one of the three main jutsu categories. Ninjutsu is the most nebulous of the three, and may most simply be described as anything that is not genjutsu or taijutsu. Most ninjutsu require chakra and hand seals, but this is not always the case since the mere usage of weaponry qualifies as ninjutsu. The huge range of ninjutsu's uses is illustrated by its several sub-classifications: medical ninjutsu, reincarnation ninjutsu, space―time ninjutsu, barrier ninjutsu, sealing jutsu, and cursed seal jutsu."

So, it can block/null the ninjutsu itself and not others abilities based in the two energies. This is can be see when Naruto was able to speack with Obito in the latter mind.

If this is really limited invulneravility, which I don't really know if is It or other ability, then the best it can get is against ninjutsu and only ninjutsu.

And let's drop the verse equalization discussion, is unnecesary for this thread.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

Are we seriously having a debate on the different properties of Chakra?

Verse Equalization doesn't care:

• Chakra = Spirit Energy = Ki, etc....

______________

As for the description, it really should just be:

Limited Invunerability: "Negates the effects of all abilities not imbued with Nature Energy."

And any weaknesses/limitations should be listed under "Weaknesses".

Weaknesses: Invunerability does not negate or protect against physical damage. Abilities inbued with Nature Energy nullify their invulnerability and weakens their Durability.

 

[Omimi]

So, it can block/null the ninjutsu itself and not others abilities based in the two energies. This is can be see whe Naruto was able to speack with Obito in the latter mind.

that was BSM naruto thou

 

[TheFinalOrder]

"Chakra is created when two other forms of energy, known collectively as one's "stamina", are moulded together. Physical energy (Þ║½õ¢ôÒé¿ÒâìÒâ½Òé«Òâ╝, shintai enerug─½) is collected from each and every one of the body's cells and can be increased through training, stimulants, and exercise. Spiritual energy (þ▓¥þÑ×Òé¿ÒâìÒâ½Òé«Òâ╝, seishin enerug─½, English TV: Mental Energy) is derived from the mind's consciousness and can be increased through studying, meditation, and experience. These two energies becoming more powerful will in turn make the created chakra more powerful. Therefore, practising a technique repeatedly will build up experience, increasing one's spiritual energy, and thus allowing more chakra to be created. As a result, the ninja is able to do that same technique with more power. This same cycle applies for physical energy, except the ninja needs to increase their endurance instead. Some unique individuals have substantial potential that enable them to exponentially increase their chakra reserves in a relatively short amount of time."
This is from here:http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Chakra

"Taijutsu is executed by directly accessing the user's physical and mental energies, relying on the stamina and strength gained through training."

That being said, taijutsu is hand to hand combat that use physical and mental energies to a extend, but it isn't necesarilly use chakra. Obito has show that his ability block/null ninjutsu, not taijutsu.

"Ninjutsu (Õ┐ìÞíô, Literally meaning: Ninja Techniques) is one of the three main jutsu categories. Ninjutsu is the most nebulous of the three, and may most simply be described as anything that is not genjutsu or taijutsu. Most ninjutsu require chakra and hand seals, but this is not always the case since the mere usage of weaponry qualifies as ninjutsu. The huge range of ninjutsu's uses is illustrated by its several sub-classifications: medical ninjutsu, reincarnation ninjutsu, space―time ninjutsu, barrier ninjutsu, sealing jutsu, and cursed seal jutsu."

So, it can block/null the ninjutsu itself and not others abilities based in the two energies. This is can be see when Naruto was able to speack with Obito in the latter mind.

If this is really limited invulneravility, which I don't really know if is It or other ability, then the best it can get is against ninjutsu and only ninjutsu.

And let's drop the verse equalization discussion, is unnecesary for this thread.

@Bolded

Unfortunately, this is not the case as outside of Naruto, Verse Equalization would make abilities equivalent to Ninjutsu. Attempting to didcount that is in of itself attempting to discout verse equalization.

Needless to say, I disagree with the bolded.

 

[KinkiestSins]

@Omimi

I literally didn't say that at all.

2. Hakai works on ghosts without Ki energy, that doesn't make your argument stronger.

You are literally straw-manning and avoiding my point.

@Alex

Kind of. Ninjutsu itself is composed of Spiritual and Physical energies. You literally just applied to ninjutsu and ignored the energy components.

It will work on ninjutsu and those with similar components.

@Order

No, you dont equalize power nullification for those that only apply to magic, or verses that allow someone to absorb energy, but it only applies to physical energy and not magical energy.

Similar supernatural aspects of verses get equalized in a reasonable fashion. So a supernatural energy that almost everyone in a Verse has, which is necessary to fight the characters of said Verse, will be assumed to be the equivalent energy that the opponents use in their techniques so that a proper fight can happen. For example, characters from other verses will be assumed to be capable of perceiving spiritual creatures such as Shinigamis from Bleach.

This is literally not how Verse Equalization works to my knowledge.

 

[TheFinalOrder]

@Omimi
I literally didn't say that at all.

2. Hakai works on ghosts without Ki energy, that doesn't make your argument stronger.

You are literally straw-manning and avoiding my point.

@Alex

Kind of. Ninjutsu itself is composed of Spiritual and Physical energies. You literally just applied to ninjutsu and ignored the energy components.

It will work on ninjutsu and those with similar components.

@Order

No, you dont equalize power nullification for those that only apply to magic, or verses that allow someone to absorb energy, but it only applies to physical energy and not magical energy.

Similar supernatural aspects of verses get equalized in a reasonable fashion. So a supernatural energy that almost everyone in a Verse has, which is necessary to fight the characters of said Verse, will be assumed to be the equivalent energy that the opponents use in their techniques so that a proper fight can happen. For example, characters from other verses will be assumed to be capable of perceiving spiritual creatures such as Shinigamis from Bleach.

This is literally not how Verse Equalization works to my knowledge.

You do realize that if equivalent supernatural energies are assumed equal, then Like I said earlier, under VE, Chakra = Spirit Energy = Ki, etc...

Meaning for example, Kido, Zanpakuto Abilities, Generic Energy Blasts in Bleach or DBZ will be equivalent to Ninjutsu. I know wtf i'm talking about bro.

 

[AlexSoloVaAlFuturo]

And let's drop the verse equalization discussion, is unnecesary for this thread.

@Bolded
Unfortunately, this is not the case as outside of Naruto, Verse Equalization would make abilities equivalent to Ninjutsu. Attempting to didcount that is in of itself attempting to discout verse equalization.

We are not discussing verse equalization, we are discussing about a Naruto ability and, for this thread, we should discuss about Naruto verse only to not derail it.