Profiles For Ongoing/Unfinished Series

[Agnaa]

What are the rules for making profiles for ongoing/unfinished series? I'll give a few examples to kickstart discussion.

• Ongoing series like One Piece and Ward. Series that are continually being written and released, but likely have a planned stopping point in the future, or at least, they have arcs that can complete. Perhaps early-access games could be included in here? These seem to currently be accepted.
• Ever-expanding collaborative projects like the SCP Foundation. It's continually having more things added, sometimes in isolated stories, sometimes in ongoing series. This seems to currently be accepted.
• Demos, such as Deltarune. Containing enough story and feats to make coherent profiles, but we know that more of the story may be coming out some time in the distant future. This had some discussion, but is currently rejected.

I have one other example that seems to be in the middle, but it requires a fair bit of explanation.

There's an old Japanese literary magazine, where authors would publish short stories, interviews, manga one-shots, and book previews. I'll be focusing on the last one.

Essentially, they'd publish the first 70 or so pages of a full novel into that magazine as a preview for its readers. Usually we'd just look to the full novel for feats, but from a quirk of history, this literary magazine was translated while almost none of the things that were previewed in it had their full novels translated. Due to how old these things are, there's no plans for fan or official translations, so these partial translations are likely all we'll have.

Which of these things should be allowed/disallowed, and why?

 

[Super_Saiyan_God_Julian]

I'm pretty sure it's perfectly fine to make a profile of a character from an ongoing series, which we will continually upgrade/revise as the series goes along.

I still think that making characters out of demos is plausible, however I would like to hear more input regarding this.

 

[Ionliosite]

Dragon Ball Super stopped airing and Bleach stopped being published, both years ago, so they aren't really example of what you're talking about.

 

[Agnaa]

Yeah my bad, I realized that after making the post and edited them out 3 minutes ago.

 

[InfiniteSped]

It should probably be fine to make one for the preview. For example, I'm adding profiles for Emperor's Dominatio, which is still ongoing and I haven't even read 25% of the released chapters (mostly because there are a crapton).

There are issues with stuff being retconned later, but that goes for pretty much any ongoing series like GoT, a lot of manga, all of Marvel and DC, etc. Might be worth looking up some plot summary of the later chapters if there isn't a full translation doe.

 

[Ionliosite]

A Demon game like Deltarun is explicity an unfinished product, same for those novel previews, it'll pretty much be like making profiles based on trailers. Sure, you got stuff with feats and that happens on the full product, but you only have that part instead of the finished product.

Manga series are different, since each individual chapter is a finished product, if unfinished material could be published, Hunter X Hunter wouldn't have such long hiatuses. This same logic applies to any other serialized media.

 

[Wokistan]

Is it really like making profiles based off of trailers though? Deltarune seems more analogous to a finished manga/Ward chapter and unfinished overall story than an unfinished chapter.

 

[Agnaa]

@Ion I feel like Deltarune and the novel previews are two different things, so I'll justify them both with different arguments.

Novel Previews: They're only unfinished in the sense that there's more of the story than has been included there, which is the exact same thing with ongoing manga and airing shows. I think that "previews" is a weird term, since it's not like these have been written in advance of the full thing - they're a portion of the finished product separated and put on display, so it's not like retcons will happen between it and the full novel.

Deltarune: While Deltarune was initially declared a Demon, and released through a download link on Toby's twitter, his tone around it seems to have changed. It got announced in a Nintendo Direct for a Switch release, where it's described as "Deltarune Chapter 1" (not as "Deltarune Demon" or anything like that). It's description calls it the first chapter that's being released for free, without much Demon talk.

 

[Ionliosite]

Deltarune seems more analogous to a finished manga/Ward chapter and unfinished overall story than an unfinished chapter.

Deltarune is quite literally a Demon for a longer game, so yes, it's pretty much the same as a trailer.

 

[Wokistan]

Radiation 19.1 is quite literally just an incomplete fraction for a longer arc in Ward. Seems similar to chapter 1 of deltarune to me

 

[Ionliosite]

Radiation 19.1 is quite literally just an incomplete fraction for a longer arc in Ward. Seems similar to chapter 1 of deltarune to me

But it's still a finished, published, individual chapter, not a Demon as Deltarune Chapter 1 is.

 

[Agnaa]

(Ion, I sorta addressed that point in my post above)

 

[Ionliosite]

(Ion, I sorta addressed that point in my post above)

Deltarune's official website explicity calls it a Demon: https://www.deltarune.com/help/

Q: Will you add anything else to the Demon?

A: I don't think so.

It's possible Chapter 1 might receive some changes upon the release of the game, but I'm not sure.

 

[Agnaa]

Oh, I never went to the help page, my bad.

But if he's not expecting to add much to it, if any, and it's already published on multiple game consoles... What's the issue?

 

[Wokistan]

Where was the original thread where we said no deltarune files? We should go through some of the reasoning there.

 

[Ionliosite]

But if he's not expecting to add much to it, if any, and it's already published on multiple game consoles... What's the issue?

I'll go again and mention my trailer analogy. Or maybe a better example would be the Phantom Blood movie, which came out and had a run on theaters, but the full footage hasn't been found due to a lack of further releases EXCEPT for the first 15 minutes of the movie, which are perfectly avaliable. And in addition to this, we had a couple of guides explaining more stuff about the movie, and yet we haven't allowed to make profiles for it, given we only have 15 minutes of it.

 

[Agnaa]

Huh, fair enough.

But couldn't we do something like, say, wait until an ongoing manga has had the volume containing whatever chapters released, before we use those chapters on profiles?

Should we wait for ongoing shows to finish a season before we make profiles for them?

 

[Ionliosite]

I do think that's a good rule, we already do that for Light Novels afaik, not allowing it until the full book is translated.

 

[Agnaa]

@Ion I just learned more about one of the examples I'm thinking of, that make me not sure how to treat it according to this ruleset...

So. Maho Shojo Risuka. 10 chapters of it were released in 8 volumes of a literary magazine. 9 of these chapters were later collected into 3 light novels for release; the 10th chapter hasn't been published in its own light novel, despite being originally released in 2008.

So it turns out that the first chapter, or half of the first light novel, was given an official English release in a literary magazine. The rest haven't had official or fan translation progress.

I made some bad assumptions when first describing this (i.e. assuming that the chapter was just pulled from an already release light novel as a sort of preview), which got us to the conclusion of "only use it if we have a full later release translated". Even if this new info doesn't change minds on this, what would we do if, theoretically, the other 9 of these chapters were fan translated, given that the last chapter never had a full light novel release? Would we disregard it entirely?

 

[Ionliosite]

If the last chapter was never officially published as novel, then yeah, you can use just the first 9 given those indeed were published.

 

[Agnaa]

Sorry to necro but I just got around to reading the series which gave me some new information.

All of them were published, they were just published as part of a literary magazine (akin to shounen jump), most didn't get their own releases until later (and the last chapter never did).

On top of that, after reading the first two chapters (the only ones with translations, with no more planned for the foreseeable future) they're self-contained stories. Roughly 70 pages each detailing an arc from start to finish, including some recurring characters who develop over the course of them, and villains of the week who never show up again.

And it feels to me like I have more information about these characters and their capabilities, despite them apparently not being allowed, than I do for a bunch of other characters that are allowed on the wiki. It is a lil sad that it doesn't seem like I'll ever be able to make profiles for these interesting well-defined characters :v

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

I never get our standards of Demo here in the wiki. Why are we picking if it is unfinished, what we do is to create a page and debate based on what we have, demos are basically a game equivalent of unfinished manga or at least a part of manga. I voiced this on the removal of Yandere Simulator, this is the reason why it was removed alongside YanDev being prick, which also I don't get. SF5 and Fortnite were unfinished game upon revision or creation, nobody seems to mind it. I get that if you want wider context you'll get upon release but revisions exist and when it's clear that it ain't going to be finished and you can make a page out of it, like again, Yandere Simulator, then why are you waiting for something that's never gonna happen, or worse, reject it entirely?

 

[Ionliosite]

Yandere Simulator doesn't even count as an unfinished game since it's been an alpha for like 6 years, so the fact it didn't even reach beta status tells you that even calling it an incomplete game isn't correct. Idk why demos aren't allowed, but I do know of Deltarune being the ultimate example of this, and it has been rejected multiple times, so take that as you will.

 

[Agnaa]

My new reply wasn't about Yandere Sim/Deltarune tho :v I consider those kinda solved.

 

[Agnaa]

Bump? ^^

 

[Tllmbrg]

No your verse will die sad and alone (And no pages)