Precognition Revisions

[KinkiestSins]

Allright, lets get to the point.

Precognition is a fairly powerful power. It is not quite 'haxy', but it tends to be up there with one of the more common ways a fighter can win.

There is just one problem, how we handle precognition is messy.

Some characters have it but are only useful in either outside of combat or near death experiences, both of which are not strong outside of combat without prep times. Kuwabara is a good example. He still 'has it', but it aint exactly good.

Both Sasuke and Percy have limited precognition with either reading opponents muscles via sharigan or by visions of the future via demi-god powers. This is fine, but this shows how big the 'spectrum' this ability can be.

And then we have Jedi and Psykers who are so great with their ability that you wonder if they can lose legit without PIS. (I joke partly but point stands)

Much like Regenerationn, it has a decent range that we should consider revising the page and steer towards tiering the ability.


I propose.

Limited Precognition (Those who read muscle movements or those who see visions in the future that is not combat applicable like in their sleep)

Examples: Percy Jackson (Riordanverse), Sharingan Users (Naruto)

Precognition (Low- Can see briefly into the future, usually by a factor of seconds)

Examples: Spiderman (Marvel), Haki Users (One Piece), Uzu Sanegayama (Kill la Kill)

Precognition (Mid- Can see into a few futures at a couple minutes ahead of time.)

Examples: Charlotte Katakuri (One Piece via statements he has made), Most Jedi (Star Wars)

Precognition (Mid-High and High ― Can see into multiple futures at once within hours or perhaps days ahead of time. High is within the span of weeks and months.)

Examples: Garnet (Steven Universe), Luke Skywalker (Star Wars, Luke saw his friends being in pain which happened a few hours before. ) Psykers I heard would also fall into this category (Warhammer 40,000k)

Precognition (Godly ― Can see into multiple futures at once within the span of years, decades and millennia, time must be specified to be in this range to qualify. )

Example: Yhwach (Bleach, he might fit in the high category somewhere, my memory with bleach is fuzzy) and the Lady who told the propechy in star wars. God Emperor of Mankind I heard fits in here as well (Warhammer 40,000)

We do not have to overhaul our existing precognition pages, this guideline will just be used to guarantee accuracy in the future and most pre cog users come from a handful of franchises anyway so it wont be hard to change those franchises.

Most Haki users from One Piece will fall under 'low' in this system. Most Jedi will fall into mid under this system with Jedi like Luke and a few others falling under Mid-High or High), Psykers are either High or Godly.


I tagged the most important franchises of the three, but this will apply to all verses.

Consider this my 'passion project' until the year is over as well so I am going to push this hard.

If you have any concerns based on this, reply down below.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I am very reluctant to push for any further considerable revision projects right now, as we already have a few more important ones lined up, and most staff members are currently busy with schoolwork.

 

[KinkiestSins]

I think this one would be fairly quick to go through since the big four with these abilties tend to fall in the same range anyway.

I also want to add that the guideline now is probably best.

Highlighting I think is best to get the community/staff thoughts.

 

[Antvasima]

I also do not know if making this distinction would be particularly important.

 

[KinkiestSins]

I also do not know if making this distinction would be particularly important.

I think so and here is why.

I have been to many one piece threads and I see a common comment would be (Sanji wins cuz precog)

Sure, if I saw this with the Emperor or Luke , I wouldnt bat an eye.

But Sanji, while has good precog, shoud have the distinction between him and Luke, especially since in the even movie versions he is still using it within the matter of hours outside of combat.

And we all know that the movies are weaker then EU.

It is a common way on this wiki for a character to win, same with Regenerationn.

That is why I think it is important to get the community's thoughts on this ability and I personally would do the majority of Star Wars and One Piece pages with this new system since I know those two verses very well.

 

[KuuIchigo]

Well, the one who made the page or added precognition to it should have at least explained how it works.

 

[KinkiestSins]

Well, the one who made the page or added precognition to it should have at least explained how it works.

I agree, but this system imo streamlines this easily.

It makes it clear cut, like Regenerationn.

And Kuu, I think you can admit the big three I mentioned sadly do not have these justifications in place.

Thus a system to organize it would be more effective in the long term.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, you can ask Reppuzan to comment here if you wish. He wrote a large part of our powers & abilities pages.

 

[KuuIchigo]

Well, the only person who has precog in Bleach is Yhwach. His page had links explaining how it works but IIRC was removed cause of dead links.

Naruto and One Piece I don't know about.

 

[KinkiestSins]

Well, you can ask Reppuzan to comment here if you wish. He wrote a large part of our powers & abilities pages.

NP and informed.

I also informed Matt of this thread.

He played a large part in both the Star Wars and Warhammer Pages so I think he has an opinion on the matter that should be taken seriously

 

[KinkiestSins]

Well, the only person who has precog in Bleach is Yhwach. His page had links explaining how it works but IIRC was removed cause of dead links.
Naruto and One Piece I don't know about.

Yhwach has weird powers. He always comments on his precog and even his allmighty allows him to see hundreds of futures beyond an unknown, but large time frame. That would either be Godly or High on this system.

Since he can see so many futures with such clarity of grains of sands in a time glass.

(But I ironically dont know bleach so correct me if I am wrong)

 

[ScarletFirefly]

This is interesting but in my opinion it's kinda hard to gauge and quantify precognition.

Let's discuss this:

Why is Limited Precognition on a lower tier than Low Precognition?

Since you take the example of the Sharingan, I'm really interested as to why you think Sharingan's muscle reading is on the same tier as having visions in your sleep? Moreover, why is Haki precognition superior to it? To my knowledge most users of Haki only get glimpses of the future only seconds at a time. Sharingan does the exact same thing basically, it's only the mechanism that differs.

Another interesting thing would be where do time travelers fall into this categorization? If a character can rewind time (see The Prince, Akemi Homura and Ekko for example), logically he would have knowledge of the events about to happen.

Just to clarify: I'm not against the idea, in fact, I'm for it. I'm just clarifying things.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we would currently have to modify 263 pages, if we went through with this project:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Precognition_Users

And again, we already have considerably more important tasks lined up in the schedule.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

And again, we already have considerably more important tasks lined up in the schedule.

Forgive the ignorance, but such as? To my knowledge some projects like the Naruto and Bleach revision for example are being held off due to staff issues.

I'm not saying this is a priority target, just something to consider.

 

[Antvasima]

Mainly the likely Narutoforums calculation replacements and the immeasurable/infinite speed revision.

 

[Reppuzan]

I also think it's difficult to gauge precognition due to the differing mechanics behind them.

Take Sir Nighteye for instance. After touching his target, he can see every move they will make in the next 24 hours with 100% accuracy. But he can't view the future of anything else until these 24 hours are used up.

How would we quantify this?

I like the idea, but strictly speaking this isn't exactly a degree you can quantify as easily as Regenerationn. It might be better to just leave it to feats.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the evaluation.

 

[KinkiestSins]

I also think it's difficult to gauge precognition due to the differing mechanics behind them.

Take Sir Nighteye for instance. After touching his target, he can see every move they will make in the next 24 hours with 100% accuracy. But he can't view the future of anything else until these 24 hours are used up.

How would we quantify this?

I like the idea, but strictly speaking this isn't exactly a degree you can quantify as easily as Regenerationn. It might be better to just leave it to feats.

I disagree partly, but let me first clarify I wanted to make the distinction as this roughly. 'Limited Precog' -Outside, cant be used in combat 'Low Precog and higher' use in combat to varying levels.

And your example? Under my system, it would still be defined. As 'Mid-High dude.' Something like this.

Precognition (Mid-High, he can see into the future with a hundred percent accuracy as long as he touched his opponent)

Your example, also goes partly into my next point.

Precognition for most users tend to follow certain guidelines I have seen in fiction. IE: A few seconds, inside combat etc

In other words, they are not your Sir Nighteye, they are Luffy or Luke.

Also, those can rewind time have no precog on their profile last I checked.

If we included that scarlett, then we have to change a few more profiles as well.

But I do think partly I will take out Sharingan users from the 'Limited' Section and put them into the 'Low Section'

Also, 260+ only? I was expecting more, but I am assuming a good chunk of those are from the franchises I listed.

All differing mechanics between precognition to put it simply as a tldr, can still be measured and stated with my system. It just does a better job at organizing it. Considering how often I see 'wins cuz of precog', I think this is a necessary change.

 

[KinkiestSins]

Well, we would currently have to modify 263 pages, if we went through with this project:

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Precognition_Users

And again, we already have considerably more important tasks lined up in the schedule.

I stated if these changes go through, I can change the Star Wars and One Piece pages myself since I know those two verses very well and I am spitballing that is probably a good 20-30 percent of the pages.

Plus, we dont have to implement these changes overnight. There is still some 5-A's listed as Multi-Planet Level that survived the change. I am fighting more for the guideline right now more then the implementation and if there is kinks in the system, I want to iron it out.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I don't really think we need Revisions for Precognition, it would frankly be too much work and for too little reward.

Just explain the character's power in the page itself.

 

[KinkiestSins]

I don't really think we need Revisions for Precognition, it would frankly be too much work and for too little reward.

Just explain the character's power in the page itself.

The problem is, we dont do that at all. Not for star wars characters, not for one piece characters, not for sharingan users. In fact, the only example I can think of that we explain is Spiderman, and Yhwach who have a justification next to the ability.

 

[Blanked]

Every haki user and sharingan user has its precognition explained in "notable techniques/attacks" if you find one without it you just copy the thing and that's it.

I agree with @Matt this is not necessary especially because precognition can be explained in "notable attacks..." If someone is too lazy to go and read it than they aren't interested in knowing about it in the first place.

 

[KinkiestSins]

Every haki user and sharingan user has its precognition explained in notable techniques/attacks.

Partly, but it is not apply to other pages like say the Jedi or Psykers. Plus, this post was partly inspired by the introduction of Katakuri, who has measurably better Haki then we have seen in a while. And he is a great example of how Precognition should be, as his profile has justifications in place with it. But the reality, most pages do not follow this rule and some showings are vague. One Piece is partly less then an issue then the others though, but the variance with precognition is still warranted enough.

I still think it is a good idea and it streamlines the system we have in place.

 

[KinkiestSins]

I agree with @Matt this is not necessary especially because precognition can be explained in "notable attacks..." If someone is too lazy to go and read it than they aren't interested in knowing about it in the first place.

i dont think so. I know how Haki works, but we do not do this in large part for some pages. And others like the one piece pages, dont go into specific detail. It is just an explaination where some characters have good examples of precog and others do not.

If feats or justifications are supposed to be in the profile, we are generally only doing one or the other or neither at the worse case.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, nobody seems to agree with you so far.

 

[KinkiestSins]

Well, nobody seems to agree with you so far.

Scarlett partly does. And I am willing to work to make some changes, I just think a guideline is better then doing nothing.

As for the issue itself, I am willing to set aside the issue if I cant change minds. 'Rome wasnt built in a day.' Edit: I would give it the rest of the day. If I cant change anyone minds by then, I would drop the issue.

 

[DMUA]

Seems good. It would make Precognition way clearer.

 

[KinkiestSins]

Going to bump this thread to solicit a reply.

 

[KinkiestSins]

I am also going to add one last time that I am willing to do the changes for Star Wars, Naruto and One Piece Myself. As well as a few other characters here and there.

 

[LordGinSama]

In all honesty I do think this is a good idea. It'd help a lot with versus threads making it easier to gauge where certain characters with precog would fall. ( Example: Haki users, Sharigan users etc.)

 

[KinkiestSins]

I think it streamlines the system.

It would save us more page space and allow us as well to set a standard that is organized as well as easy to understand.

 

[The_Everlasting]

This entire change seems generally too complicated and really not worth it.

 

[KinkiestSins]

This entire change seems generally too complicated and really not worth it.

How is it too complicated? If anything, our system is not comprehensive enough. Regenerationn follow the same rules and for good reasons, there is existing tiers in regen we accept. Or in simple terms, Naruto Regen < Deadpool Regen

Also, if it is designed to simplify the system then I would think it is not complicated.

It is pretty easy to understand. Hard to implement? Sure, at first. But it will likely prove more beneficial to us then not. Especially since not all users can explain how strong Luffy precog is compared to Yhwach.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

IT isn't worth it. Too much profiles to edit for little gain, and the wikia already has another big project potentially coming related to NarutoForums Blogs.

 

[KinkiestSins]

IT isn't worth it. Too much profiles to edit for little gain, and the wikia already has another big project potentially coming related to NarutoForums Blogs.

As stated earlier, I can do the star wars, naruto and op pages myself. And I am also just fine putting the guideline up on the page so we can minimize the amount of work. Aura has multiple sub categories, but we are only obligated to use them in a profile. The same can be said for precog.

Edit: I can also wait to get this done whenever he finish the naruto revisions.

 

[ArbitraryNumbers]

Simply explaining their precognition in the profiles should be enough. If some characters don't have good explanations for precog, then we can simply give them some.

However, if it truly is that big of an issue, I do think creating a rule or adding a note to the precognition page would make a good compromise; make sure to give proper reasoning and specification for the mechanics of a character's precognition?

 

[KinkiestSins]

Simply explaining their precognition in the profiles should be enough. If some characters don't have good explanations for precog, then we can simply give them some.

However, if it truly is that big of an issue, I do think creating a rule or adding a note to the precognition page would make a good compromise; make sure to give proper reasoning and specification for the mechanics of a character's precognition?

Sure, I can concede there. Star Wars and Warhammer are the biggest offenders, and some one piece pages.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Don't we already have a rule that requires complex abilities like reality warping and such to be explained on the profiles? It didn't strictly apply to just that but all abilities which aren't blatantly obvious like something like fire manipulation.

If that is the case then precognition already falls under that, people are suppose to explain it on the profiles as we have a rule for it, but they don't, or the profiles were created before the rule was in place.

If that's the case the only thing that needs to be done is that the ability needs to be explain on the profiles.

 

[KinkiestSins]

Don't we already have a rule that requires complex abilities like reality warping and such to be explained on the profiles? It didn't strictly apply to just that but all abilities which aren't blatantly obvious like something like fire manipulation.

If that is the case then precognition already falls under that, people are suppose to explain it on the profiles as we have a rule for it, but they don't, or the profiles were created before the rule was in place.

If that's the case the only thing that needs to be done is that the ability needs to be explain on the profiles.

I think One Piece is an example of it after it was implemented. It does not have any problems with the explanation, but more so direct feats of usage. And Star Wars is the opposite problem. I know say Obi Wan has weaker precog then say Luke or Yoda did. It is just a connection to the force thing. So on and so on. Often, I just see 'Precognition' Would could mean spidey sense or Yhwach/Psyker levels broken.

 

[Antvasima]

Simply explaining their precognition in the profiles should be enough. If some characters don't have good explanations for precog, then we can simply give them some.

However, if it truly is that big of an issue, I do think creating a rule or adding a note to the precognition page would make a good compromise; make sure to give proper reasoning and specification for the mechanics of a character's precognition?

I would be fine with this. Does anybody have a suggestion for a footnote explanation to add to the Precognition page?