Precognition Battle (Connor vs The Number Man)

[Peppersalt43]

Math Man : 3
Funny Android : 7
They help you with your math homework : 0

9-C versions used
Speed equalized
Fight takes place in a boxing ring, 5 meters apart
All their weapons are restricted

The first time I found The Number Man's profile, I felt extremely bad that I didn't use him for the match against Connor. Oh well, time to fix that mistake

Story below

"Connor, are you sure we should be doing this?" asked Hank.
"We need to know the meaning behind the numbers and code. This man is our best bet" replied Connor, ringing a doorbell again.

"But why does it have to be him? He's a supervillain!".
"Former supervillain, Hank. According to his recent records, Mr. Wynn has been a contributing member to society. He has contributed in arresting tax fraud perpetrators for the past few years".

The two were currently standing in front of a door of a house, rain pouring from the sky. The two had been there for a few minutes, soaking up the rain in their clothes. Suddenly the door was opened, revealing a middle-aged blonde man in business clothing.

"Any reason you left us out in the rain?" asked the lieutenant.
"It would take 2 more minutes for you to soak up enough rain that I would need a heater to dry your clothes" replied Kurt.

The two entered the house, finding it to be exceptionally tidy. Even the stacks of paper were arranged in such a way that it doesn't clutter up the table.

"I know what you two want, I've seen you on the news. I am just this close to finding out the problem with the deviant's code. It was very interesting, all those emotions written down as neat lines of code" explained the number man before systematically pulling out a sheet of paper from the stack.
"That would be appreciated. Can you solve this code as well?" asked the android while showing the book he found in Rupert's hideout.

"That would be much easier. I do however request something first".
"Financial compensation can be arranged".

"Oh no, I don't need more money. I have enough and I know all the specifications to make more. No what I want are results" replied Kurt, leading them to a makeshift and somehow legally accurate boxing ring "You see, I have never actually fought an android before. I don't know all their weak spots, their pressure points, their abilities. So many variables that can lead to my defeat and with a war against them coming, such information would be very valuable, to me at least".
"Connor, you can't possibly consider fighting this lunatic. You know what he can do" said Hank before being cut off.
"There is a hospital 100 meters from here and a Cyberlife repair shop 90 meters from here" replied Connor before taking off his tie and giving it to his partner.

"I accept your offer, Number Man"

 

[Peppersalt43]

Ah, the first bump

 

[MrKerf]

From first glance, paralysis won't work since they don't have pressure points, and biology as a whole.
I don't know how comparable are they on their precognition, but to me Connor's simulation ability looks more impressive.
Regardless, if it'll be an equal battle, Connor will outlast Kurt because of superior stamina.
Voting Connor.

 

[Razor]

Connor can do stuff thats impossible to humans perception wise like this, couple that with his precog and he should be able to dodge. And from what I've read sniper rifle's move subsonic speeds so connor may or may not be able to dodge that, and even if he does get hit bullets don't **** up his system that bad, he was able to move fine after a couple shots from the android in the rooftop, and only needed to be repaired once he fell from a skyscraper. And connor is also kinda skilled and real mobile. Connor also has the LS advantage so he can grapple. and I think connor might be stronger, breaking metal should be superior to breaking bones.

 

[Razor]

Also in a gun fight connor is winning, Connor is unfazed can eat shots for breakfast without his system failing meanwhile the number man is human so one shot and he's down

 

[Peppersalt43]

Also in a gun fight connor is winning, Connor is unfazed can eat shots for breakfast without his system failing meanwhile the number man is human so one shot and he's down

I wouldn't be so sure about that. While he can't feel pain, headshots will still kill an android and he's just human enough for The Number Man to try a headshot against him.

In fact, I think I made my mind, I'm gonna restrict their handguns

 

[Razor]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. While he can't feel pain, headshots will still kill an android and he's just human enough for The Number Man to try a headshot against him.

In fact, I think I made my mind, I'm gonna restrict their handguns

Idk I think he was shot in the head, but even if the number man is restricted to one spot while connor has a lot more options

Alright

 

[Razor]

Alright so no weapons, Connor is skilled in this deparment, Has higher LS, And he's also completely resistant to pain, Pressure point strikes wouldn't do anything to connor as he is a robot but pressure point strikes is still fair game for connor to use. Connor has more options, In AP Idk they seem to be pretty even. And connor has the stamina advantage although I don't think the fight will drag out long enough for that to matter. Connor has more options, He should take this for me

 

[Peppersalt43]

Alright then, thanks to the both of you

Counted

 

[Razor]

Oh also does the wiki treat connor being created again after being destroyed combat applicable? If yes then this is a stomp as the math man has no means of keeping connor down permanently

 

[Peppersalt43]

Oh also does the wiki treat connor being created again after being destroyed combat applicable? If yes then this is a stomp as the math man has no means of keeping connor down permanently

Nope, he takes some time to come back and by then, the battle's over.

 

[Razor]

Ah alright

 

[MrKerf]

Can you write our votes above?

 

[Peppersalt43]

Done and done

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump

 

[Oleggator]

Connor FRA

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

Connor FRA

 

[Peppersalt43]

All counted and thank you

This just needs 3 more votes to grace

 

[Ailamiona]

Voting for Connor due to pain resist, higher LS and seemingly higher skill

 

[Sonicflare9]

connor fra

 

[Peppersalt43]

Both counted and thank you

 

[Peppersalt43]

Come on, 1 more vote...

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

Someone give this man 1 more vote

 

[Peppersalt43]

Someone give this man 1 more vote

Yes, agreed

 

[Peppersalt43]

sigh and bump again

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Connor fra

 

[Peppersalt43]

THANK YOU EVERYONE!

GRACE!

 

[MrKerf]

Let's gooooo!

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

WE DID IT!

 

[Jaften]

I believe Wok is about to post a big long essay on why you have severely underestimated Number Man. I'll leave the stuff about Number Man to him, but I would like to point out that you guys are severely overestimating Connor. Yeah, he has some pretty good feats in combat, but he's not as amazing as you seem to make him out to be. In fact, he has quite a few anti-feats. Disregarding the failed QTEs, Connor struggles when fighting Hank in one route of the game—Hank, the depressed alcoholic aging has-been cop. Yes, he wins against a bunch of nameless faceless soldiers in small groups, but those same soldiers also consistently make really dumb decisions for some reason (that reason being PIS of course)—you know, like trying to run up to him to hit him rather than shooting him with their rifles because he's clearly hostile—so I don't consider that a good feat, as he was fighting plot-handicapped enemies (the entire "escape from the ship" scene is chock full of PIS on the soldiers' side, tbh, just watch. In fact, whenever there are nameless and faceless goons around Connor, they seem to make extremely poor decisions and fail to react to things in time... curious). TBF, the fight with Hank is probably also somewhat PIS on Connor's side, but if you disregard that one for PIS you disregard the other one for PIS, which cancels both fights out.

Just watch through the fight scenes, they're not as amazing as you'd think. Meanwhile, Number Man is very broken in hand-to-hand against anybody who isn't stupidly durable and strong. You'll have to wait until Wok posts to see just how broken he is. But IMO he takes Connor in a "fair" fight every time.

 

[Wokistan]

Gonna go against the grain here a bit and throw in a vote for the number man.

From first glance, paralysis won't work since they don't have pressure points, and biology as a whole.

This just means there's no commotio cordis bullshit where you get hit in the chest at a really bad time and your heart stops and you die. Machine still absolutely have points of failure, especially a humanoid one. Joints are still very at risk here, given that Number Man and worse versions of Number Man have done this sort of shit to people who are more durable than Connor.

They moved fluidly as the animals lunged, snapping and biting. Confident movements. Two caught Huntress' head, wrenched it to the side, while the others avoided snapping jaws to catch Bastard's forelimbs, bodily hauling him up and then throwing him to the ground.

The two animals were brought down in as many seconds. Pinned, as inexplicably as Lung was pinned. Except this wasn't sheer strength. They were strategic, targeting body parts, one of the young men leveraging his whole body between Bastard's forelimbs, forcing them apart in a way that the dog's musculature couldn't combat.

It was like holding a crocodile's mouth shut. Jaw strength aside, the crocodile wasn't built to force it's mouth open. The wolf wasn't built to draw its legs together against its chest, but couldn't get feet under it to stand without dislodging the offending attacker. The other had his head caught and twisted to one side. - Venom 29.7

The characters in question: Lung and Bastard. Neither of these guys are soft targets, and yet abuse of leverage and weak point targeting lets them be taken down and restrained by worse versions of Number Man. Connor being a robot only saves him from the silly stuff that's taken from Dripfeed.

Let's also not forget the skull shattering stuff via weak points.

“You’ll miss,” the Number Man said. “And I’ll close in and strike you, using my pen and my hand. I can see the stress points of your body, clear as day. I can shatter your skull like a glass, and it would be an exceptionally painful way to die.” - Excerpt from Interlude 21.x

Pound for pound, bone's stronger than steel.

Another bit where worse versions of number man are able to counter and throw around people decked out in full power armor. These power armor guys have their own prediction software which shouldn't really be worse than the shit that Armsmaster used to deal the most damage to Leviathan that had ever been done to an endbringer, because their stuff is just a slightly toned down version of Armsmaster's and he's had two years of development since then. DT prediction software even let them dodge blasts from Scion until Scion let loose with something that was just physically impossible to dodge.

The Dragon’s Teeth aimed containment foam at the three Harbingers. The clones pulled off their flowing jackets with sleeves that almost covered their hands, catching the foam, then landed. One swept the bundle of foam to try to knock a D.T. officer off his feet. The officer hopped up, then struck out at the Harbinger clone.

No use, Golem thought. A mistake. Harbinger caught the arm, almost effortlessly turned around, pulling him in the direction of the turn. A little push, and the soldier fell.


Interlude 26a

A surprising number of wounded, in the end. Twenty or so injured from an aircraft that had been partially obliterated, eighteen more people who’d had their legs sliced off. Nearly forty Dragon’s Teeth with mild injuries, their armor melted to their faces, chests, arms and legs. Scion had tried his usual assortment of attacks, and they’d evaded them. Enhanced strength from the costumes, predictive technology from the onboard artificial intelligences.

So he’d used a power they couldn’t dodge, a power they couldn’t block. A light that radiated outward and melted the materials of their costumes.


Venom 29.3

Here's a bit on how the armor is the exact sort of thing to counter this pressure point abuse, talking about how it has extra protection around vulnerable areas like joints and necks. Didn't save them.

I also saw the Dragon’s Teeth.

Soldiers was the wrong word, but it was close.

Each wore armor in gun-metal and black, with parallels to the standard PRT uniforms I was more familiar with. Their helmets, however, had three eyeholes, with blue lenses glowing faintly from beneath. Two lenses for their eyes, a third for a camera. The armor was bulky, offering thick protection around the neck and joints, with a heavy pack on the back for both oxygen and for the computers they wore.

They were, in large part, wearing stripped-down versions of Defiant’s outfit. Sacrifices had been made to account for the fact that their suits didn’t render them seven and a half feet tall. Each carried a sword and a laser pistol. - Excerpt from Sting 26.2

So yeah, all in all, despite not having to deal with the CO2 embolism or the nerve damage paralysis, he still sorta gets ****** by that.

I don't know how comparable are they on their precognition, but to me Connor's simulation ability looks more impressive.

Yeah I don't really know where that's coming from. I'll post three examples I think demonstrate that Number Man is just ridiculous.

1: Uses math to deduce that someone's invisible attack is them leveraging every possible version of themselves into roughly the same area, which is ~10^90 versions of themselves.

Three-zero-one-six manifested the strike as though his arm were exponentially larger, the attack repeated in almost infinite variations through the space in front of him, as though he were leveraging every possible version of himself that could have been here, in this basement, drawing them together in one coordinated strike.

Concrete and steel were obliterated, and the blow carved divots into floor and ceiling both, disintegrated layers of stainless steel that sat behind and beneath the concrete of floor and wall.


Interlude 21.x

2: Thought to be capable of fixing Dragon by Tattletale, who has a power that allows her access to just free information at hand. Dragon is an impossibly advanced Tinker AI, with Tinker technology by default being physically impossible for normal people to handle. The other candidates for fixing Dragon was an army of thousands of brainwashed Tinkers working in concert, and Dragon herself. Note that Dragon is by far the best Tinker alive.

Saint took in a deep breath, then sighed loudly. “I set up the encryption with Dragon’s time locks. I memorized the codes appropriate to key dates. Outside of those key moments, the numbers and calculations are so long and complex you couldn’t hope to decipher it before the encryption shifted to the next phase.”

“When’s the next date?” I asked.

“September twentieth, twenty-thirteen.”

Months from now.

“That was clever,” Imp said.

“What if we used the Number Man?” I suggested.

“Possible,” Tattletale said.

“Yes,” Saint said. “It’s possible. But so is Teacher deciphering it with a cabal of his custom-made thinkers.”

“Shit,” Tattletale said. “Narwhal? May I?”

“Do it.”

“Door me,” Tattletale said. “I need to talk to Number.”

Cockroaches 28.2

3: When he was 12, he's able to guide someone else's power up King's nose to snipe his corona, disabling his power and killing him. If this didn't work immedately, King's power would activate, the damage would be shunted elsewhere, and they'd be out of luck. This is already quite something on its own, but where it gets to truly ridiculous levels is when you factor in Bonesaw's statement that the corona's too small and inconsistent for brain surgeons to be able to find and lobotomize this way with any consistency, in a context where they have a brain right in front of them free to just pick apart.

Panda: So Jack and Harbinger just stopped giving ***** and stabbed him over and over until all of his pawns died, huh?

Panda: Only way I could see him being taken out like that.

Wildbow: Jack's power up King's nose, to strike the same 'sweet spot' that snipers aim for.

Panda: Oh. Oh wow.

Wildbow: Using Harbinger's power to aim. Followed by stabby aftermath to guarantee it was over..

Panda: That's gruesome and impressive. - Conversation with Wildbow on the IRC, Archived on Spaccebattles.

Bonesaw's statements:

“See, there’s this part of the brain that people who study parahumans call the Corona Pollentia, not to be confused with the Corona Radiata. It’s a part of the brain that’s different in parahumans, and it’s the part that’s used to manage powers, when the powers can be managed. More specifically, there’s this part of the Corona they call the Gemma, that controls the active use of the power, the same way there are parts of the brain that allow us to coordinate and move our hands.”

She ran her fingers over my exposed scalp, massaging it, as if she were feeling the shape of my head. “The size, shape and location of the Corona and the Gemma changes from parahuman to parahuman, but it tends to sit between the frontal and the parietal lobe. Beneath the ‘crown’ of the head, if you will. They can’t really lobotomize the Corona in criminals. Some of that’s because the location and shape of the Corona depends on the powers and how they work, and trial and error doesn’t work with the scary bad guys who can melt flesh or breathe lasers.”

She tilted my head back and felt around the edges of my mask, trying to find the part where she could pull it off. “I’m really good at figuring out where the Corona and the Gemma are. I can even guess most of the time, if I know what powers the person has. And I can pry it wide open, make it so the powers can’t be turned off, or I can temporarily disable it, or modify it. The powder I blew into your face? It has the same prions I put in the darts I shot your friends with. Cripples the Gemma, but it leaves your powers intact. Can’t experiment with your abilities if I’ve fried your whole Corona Pollentia, right? Right.”

Snare 13.9

So the worse version of himself is capable of directing someone else's hands to do something on the fly in a high stress situation that non tinker brain surgeons can't do in a controlled environment.

Regardless, if it'll be an equal battle, Connor will outlast Kurt because of superior stamina.

That's all well and nice but it isn't an equal battle and it's not going to be a battle of attrition.

Connor can do stuff thats impossible to humans perception wise like this, couple that with his precog and he should be able to dodge.

You can't really link a 12 minute long scene with no elaboration, but impossible perceptions is literally number man's entire superpower.

And from what I've read sniper rifle's move subsonic speeds so connor may or may not be able to dodge that, and even if he does get hit bullets don't **** up his system that bad, he was able to move fine after a couple shots from the android in the rooftop, and only needed to be repaired once he fell from a skyscraper.

Yeah I don't know what you're reading, but no. Sniper rifles can fire subsonic rounds if you want them to, but just like any other rifle, they're going to default to supersonic. Them being specced for range means they're generally tuned to have higher muzzle velocities than normal guns as is. Number Man's explicitly better at range than in melee, he's already got the stupid melee weak point abuse stuff, Connor clearly has joints and vital components, he'd just be gunned down if OP didn't ban guns.

Connor also has the LS advantage so he can grapple.

Not only are all the feats he has listed peak human and not superhuman, but number man out grapples explicitly superhuman people. See above where I mention Lung, Bastard, and the Dragon's Teeth officers.

and I think connor might be stronger, breaking metal should be superior to breaking bones.

Apparently not. Even without that, here, have a 9-A who's sure that she'd die to a worse version of Number Man despite him ostensibly only being armed with a pistol and a slingshot, somehow.

She paused.

“How far are you going? What are you really doing here?” she ventured, still not turning around. If there was a gun, there would be no chance. If she dropped and there was something to hold on to, she could-

-probably not live. The boy was Number Man, writ small.


Dying 15.x

So yeah. Voting the less metallic nerd.

 

[Jaften]

Number Man FRA, his feats are so much better than the inferior dorky sex doll. In fact this may actually be a stomp for Number Man, Connor really doesn't have a realistic way to win.

Also I believe you can't add a match to the profiles if there's anything arbitrarily restricted, so Connor wouldn't get the win anyways.

 

[Apeironaxim]

Yeah Number Man has been severely underestimated in this thread up till this point

Number Man fra, he has WAY more impressive stuff going for him, as Wok highlighted

also you guys are aware a match can't be added if you restrict standard equipment that's not out of tier, right

 

[Peppersalt43]

So yeah. Voting the less metallic nerd.

Counted. If you had came here earlier, he could've won. That was a good essay

Number Man fra, he has WAY more impressive stuff going for him, as Wok highlighted

also you guys are aware a match can't be added if you restrict standard equipment that's not out of tier, right

Both have very similar equipment and everything got restricted

Also I'll count that

Number Man FRA

Also I believe you can't add a match to the profiles if there's anything restricted, so Connor wouldn't get the win anyways.

If you want to, I can redo this fight and decrease their range to prevent them from using their firearms

than the inferior dorky sex doll

Also how dare you

 

[Razor]

Nobody knew about the number man until you guys came, we were going off by the profiles. so we weren't underestimating him we just didn't know anything, Fair analysis. Anyways if restricting weapons thats not out of tier isn't allowed then should this thread be closed?

 

[Wokistan]

Well you can debate it if you want, it just can't be added.

Some of this stuff is already on the file, but not all of it. May as well break out that rarely used "feats" section, I guess.

 

[Apeironaxim]

Nobody knew about the number man until you guys came, we were going off by the profiles. so we weren't underestimating him we just didn't know anything, Fair analysis. Anyways if restricting weapons thats not out of tier isn't allowed then should this thread be closed?

i mean, then the logical conclusion is find people who do know him/Worm. Kinda suspect to encourage votes for a character when their opponent has literally no one who knows arguing for him.

Like even if this had gotten added before Wok and Jaften came in, pretty sure could be removed using the Versus Thread Removal request thread just based solely on "Literally no one who knew Number Man was around to argue before everyone FRA train'd Connor"

 

[Peppersalt43]

Nobody knew about the number man until you guys came, we were going off by the profiles. so we weren't underestimating him we just didn't know anything, Fair analysis. Anyways if restricting weapons thats not out of tier isn't allowed then should this thread be closed?

How did you guys not get suspicious from reading the reasonings on his profile. Guy survived a high fall by calculating his body position and inflicted paralysis by hitting someone once. How is that not insanely impressive

Well you can debate it if you want, it just can't be added.

Some of this stuff is already on the file, but not all of it. May as well break out that rarely used "feats" section, I guess.

If I unrestrict their equipment and decrease their starting range to 50 centimetres, can this match still be viable? It would probably force them to melee so your explanation would still be usable

 

[Razor]

i mean, then the logical conclusion is find people who do know him/Worm. Kinda suspect to encourage votes for a character when their opponent has literally no one who knows arguing for him.

Like even if this had gotten added before Wok and Jaften came in, pretty sure could be removed using the Versus Thread Removal request thread just based solely on "Literally no one who knew Number Man was around to argue before everyone FRA trained Connor"

I wasn't actively trying to encourage people to vote, I didn't message them on their walls or anything, All I did was give my perspective on the match, Not contacting supporters was my fault I apologize

 

[Jaften]

Both have very similar equipment and everything got restricted

Still an illegal match, no official win for you.

If you want to, I can redo this fight and decrease their range to prevent them from using their firearms

They'd still use handguns because they have feats for CQC shooting, and Number Man would still immediately destroy Connor because he has far superior feats.

Also how dare you