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Post-Flashpoint Black Alice (DC Comics) revision

Sandman31

VS Battles
Retired
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601
So I'm not that updated with what's currently happening in DC but I wonder if the recent development in DC's magical side can allow Black Alice (Post-Flashpoint) to finally have a rating.

Here's some of her feats that she performed with her own power.

Description of issue #7 stated that she was sucking dry all magic in the DC Universe and Issue 8 description states that the balance of power in DCU rest solely in her hands

Was causing Magic itself (And everything connected to magic) to fade not just in earth, but in all dimensions, eras and worlds

Was causing the House of Strangers, the worlds oldest parliament which is respected even by the gods, heaven and hell to disappear

Phantom Stranger said Black Alice is causing their place of power to disappear

Was probably affecting the Lords of Orders/Chaos as well as the other mages wonder if Dr. Fate still even exists

Is causing Eclipso, Phantom Stranger, Deadman and the Swamp Thing to fade out of existence (Which probably means she's also causing the Parliaments to disappear, and as PS said their places of power are disappearing as well. Also, n52 Phantom Stranger and Spectre might not be as powerful as before but they still have cosmic roles that are necessary for Creation and Black Alice was still going to erase them subconsciously, which is another proof that she was legitimately erasing/draining magic in whole of Creation)

Threatened to send the wives of Scandal Savage to "the place which the devil calls hell" and that Alice is some type of god/possessed by a god which possessed her during the car accident that killed her parents and only stopped draining magic because she's just biding her time.

My proposed tier is
Maybe

At least 4-B (Much more powerful than the Phantom Stranger), likely far higher (Capable of ending magic itself) - low end/low ball
or
possibly Low 1-C (Was stated to be capable of ending magic itself in DCU. She was unconsciously draining all of the magical power in every dimension, eras and world and was stated to cause every magical being and realms to fade away from existence. Was Causing the Phantom Stranger to fade away from existence even though the Phantom Stranger having a role that is vital to Creation) - Basically scaling her to DCs top magical beings/The Sphere of the Gods and is the high end interpretation

As for her being depicted as much weaker than Low 1-C or her not being portrayed not as powerful as she's supposed to be like when she was in the background in JL Dark or when she was in Raven's series, its important to remember that Black Alice or the entity possessing Black Alice is trying to lie low and as she herself said, she won't do any "hasty magical posturing" and is willing to wait millions of years.
 
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Um... Correct me if this is my ignorance showing, but... Wouldn't the entirety of Magic, actually be much higher than Low 1-C and hitting into the higher ends of 1-A tier ?
 
Um... Correct me if this is my ignorance showing, but... Wouldn't the entirety of Magic, actually be much higher than Low 1-C and hitting into the higher ends of 1-A tier ?
I think that was the case with Post Crisis. This is for PF Black Alice so I thought she could just be scaled to the Sphere of the Gods/Hecate and UDM.
 
I think it's fine. Tho if we are looking into it. Should the entirety of magic be considered 1A? I'm pretty sure magic and things in the godsphere aren't affected by crisis events as those events strictly happen in the orrery
 
I think it was stated in the book of magic that magic is born from the logos
I think it was portrayed that way in the Books of Magic. I remember it was stated that the song of magic is also the song of creation or something along those lines.

What I'm interested in is if her absorbing magic in "every eras" means she's absorbing the magic not only from this era (Flashpoint) but from every era as well (Post-Crisis etc), which I think isn't that farfetched considering she was already draining magic in every dimensions and worlds.
 
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I think it was portrayed that way in the Books of Magic. I remember it was stated that the song of magic is also the song of creation or something along those lines.
Yeah.
What I'm interested in is if her absorbing magic in "every eras" means she's absorbing the magic not only from this era (Flashpoint) but from every era as well (Post-Crisis etc), which I think isn't that farfetched considering she was already draining magic in every dimensions and worlds.
So wouldn't it include the Timothy scaling? So I guess she would be 1A. Not sure.
 
Okay. What do the rest of you think?
 
Well, she seems to at least be on a level with the sphere of the gods, and possibly all of magic as a whole, meaning Hecate.

However, I am not the best to ask. What do you think @Sandman31 ?
 
Well, she seems to at least be on a level with the sphere of the gods, and possibly all of magic as a whole, meaning Hecate.

However, I am not the best to ask. What do you think @Sandman31 ?
Yeah, basically scaling her from DCs entire magical side since she was explicitly stated to be ending magic and anything connected to it in every dimensions, era and worlds.

That statement is backed by feats as she was erasing Phantom Stranger, Eclipso, Dr Fate, Swamp Thing and some other agents of other Parliaments etc. She was also stated to be not only draining them but also the arcane networks and the places of power supporting them. Phantom Stranger also said that magic itself was disappearing and he's a pretty reliable source
 
Okay. That seems fine to apply then. I will check if the profile page needs to be unlocked, so you can appropriately revise it.

Tell me here when you are done.
 
So I'm not that updated with what's currently happening in DC but I wonder if the recent development in DC's magical side can allow Black Alice (Post-Flashpoint) to finally have a rating.

Here's some of her feats that she performed with her own power.

Description of issue #7 stated that she was sucking dry all magic in the DC Universe and Issue 8 description states that the balance of power in DCU rest solely in her hands

Was causing Magic itself (And everything connected to magic) to fade not just in earth, but in all dimensions, eras and worlds

Was causing the House of Strangers, the worlds oldest parliament which is respected even by the gods, heaven and hell to disappear

Phantom Stranger said Black Alice is causing their place of power to disappear

Was probably affecting the Lords of Orders/Chaos as well as the other mages wonder if Dr. Fate still even exists

Is causing Eclipso, Phantom Stranger, Deadman and the Swamp Thing to fade out of existence (Which probably means she's also causing the Parliaments to disappear, and as PS said their places of power are disappearing as well. Also, n52 Phantom Stranger and Spectre might not be as powerful as before but they still have cosmic roles that are necessary for Creation and Black Alice was still going to erase them subconsciously, which is another proof that she was legitimately erasing/draining magic in whole of Creation)

Threatened to send the wives of Scandal Savage to "the place which the devil calls hell" and that Alice is some type of god/possessed by a god which possessed her during the car accident that killed her parents and only stopped draining magic because she's just biding her time.

My proposed tier is
Maybe

At least 4-B (Much more powerful than the Phantom Stranger), likely far higher (Capable of ending magic itself) - low end/low ball
or
possibly Low 1-C (Was stated to be capable of ending magic itself in DCU. She was unconsciously draining all of the magical power in every dimension, eras and world and was stated to cause every magical being and realms to fade away from existence. Was Causing the Phantom Stranger to fade away from existence even though the Phantom Stranger having a role that is vital to Creation) - Basically scaling her to DCs top magical beings/The Sphere of the Gods and is the high end interpretation

As for her being depicted as much weaker than Low 1-C or her not being portrayed not as powerful as she's supposed to be like when she was in the background in JL Dark or when she was in Raven's series, its important to remember that Black Alice or the entity possessing Black Alice is trying to lie low and as she herself said, she won't do any "hasty magical posturing" and is willing to wait millions of years.
Wasn't phantom stranger stated by presence could destroy all of creation of he battled the spectre?
 
Not necessarily destroy, but pay the price for it. But yeah, it was from Phantom Stranger #5 (New 52)
 
Okay. That seems fine to apply then. I will check if the profile page needs to be unlocked, so you can appropriately revise it.

Tell me here when you are done.
Is somebody knowledgeable willing to apply the accepted revisions here?
 
Statement wise, Should be somewhere up in Tier 1 - probably high tier 1. But the two of them lack feats for such tier. It's quite unfortunate how weak they are in New 52
 
Statement wise, Should be somewhere up in Tier 1 - probably high tier 1. But the two of them lack feats for such tier. It's quite unfortunate how weak they are in New 52
Since its stated by the presence tho,I still think it scales them to prolly 1a.
 
Musaabu02:

Please permanently stop spamming brief biased derailment messages in any content revisions threads, especially ones that have been inactive for years. It makes it harder for people with greater knowledge and abilities to articulate and communicate to get anything done.
 
Musaabu02:

Please permanently stop spamming brief biased derailment messages in any content revisions threads, especially ones that have been inactive for years. It makes it harder for people with greater knowledge and abilities to articulate and communicate to get anything done.
Souka
 
@Antvasima

What's the agreed upon AP and justification? I can work on it later today.

I presume scaling to Hecate of Low 1-C, possibly 1-A.
 
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@Antvasima

What's the agreed upon AP and justification? I can work on it later today.

I presume scaling to Hecate of Low 1-C, possibly 1-A.
(Black Alice was unconsciously causing Magic itself, and everything connected to magic, to fade from existence not just in earth, but in all dimensions, eras and worlds. Was causing beings like the Phantom Stranger, Nabu and the Swamp Thing to fade away from existence. Was causing the House of Strangers, the worlds oldest parliament which is respected even by the gods, heaven and hell to disappear)

And yeah, I think its also safe to scale her to Hecate since she was draining every magic in all levels in DC
 
Thank you both for helping out. That can probably be applied.
 
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