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Post Crisis Superman destructive capacity and durability revision.

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I'm pretty sure veryone knows who Superman is and how OP he is, however i disagree with VS Battles wiki's stats for him, his destructive output and durability should both be galaxy level and higher and all his lower end feats that would normally suggest otherwise can be refuted with the following.


Let's start with why I believe he's a minimum of galaxy level.


First, In the 2001 DC event known as Our Worlds At War, Superman spent some time training with Mongul to remove his subconscious mental restrictiàn and leart how to further improve the use of his powers, during that same arc, Supermane received a significat permanent power upgrade. Let's get with the reasoning.


- Feats:


Superman training with Mongul.


Superman V2 -152 - Page 3


Superman V2 -152 - Page 6


After the training, Superman and Mongul ran into a weaker Imperiex Probe who was creating a machine that would have destroyed the entire solar system. They then proceed to beat that Probe, then destroy his machine, and fight each other for Superman to come out as the winner.


Superman V2 -153 - Page 10
Superman V2 -153 - Page 11
Superman V2 -153 - Page 12


Superman V2 -153 - Page 16
Superman V2 -153 - Page 18


These on their own should give Superman Solar System level destructive capacity and by default Solar System level durability, as heavy hitters such as Superman usually have a superior durability than their DC, but as the arc progressed Superman got even stronger.


Superman V2 -172 - Page 12
Superman V2 -172 - Page 13


Superman V2 -172 - Page 14

Superman V2 -172 - Page 15
In the scans above, we have Superman beating another stronger Imperiex Probe, this time on his own without any help. That same Probe ahd destroyed an entre galaxy with a single black hole he had generated and tanked its detruction, and since Superman cracked his armor, beat him, and destroyed him, his DC would be superior than Probe's galaxy level durability.
Superman V2 -153 - Page 2
Superman - The Man of Steel - Metropolitan Rapture -115 - Page 19
There we have the Probe destroying a galaxy. As for the low showings, they can all be refuted by either taking place before the Our Worlds At War story arc, or Superman holding back not to cause any significant damage to earth or his opponents as he himself addmited he holds back.
Superman holds back
Therefor i believe Superman should be a minimum of galaxy level, there are many other feats taht would suggets this but i'm too lazy to write a King James bible right now.
 
Mmm... SS Superman doesn't sound like an outlier, even MSS, but I got some doubts: I can't find where is stated that Imperiax survived that explotion or if he is MSS level by his own; destroying a machine able to destroy a solar system shouldn't be considered SS level... but maybe i would need more input here
 
Scaling to people is usually considered fallacious in comics unless it's consistent. And as Anto said, destroying a machine capable of something doesn't warrant for Powerscaling unless the machine had said dura.
 
Destroying a probe constructing a machine capable of destroying a solar system is not remotely the same as having solar system level power. And Black Hole feats in fictio tend to be unquantifiable.

Also, even if it is not in this case, it would still be considered an outlier, similar to when Thor prevented the destruction of 1/5th of the universe, or the Hulk shook an infinite number of planets.
 
Everyone is saying the right things. It is not a solar system feat to destroy a machine that destroyed a solar system.
 
Antvasima said:
Destroying a probe constructing a machine capable of destroying a solar system is not remotely the same as having solar system level power. And Black Hole feats in fictio tend to be unquantifiable.
Also, even if it is not in this case, it would still be considered an outlier, similar to when Thor prevented the destruction of 1/5th of the universe, or the Hulk shook an infinite number of planets.
Even if black hole feats in fiction are usually unquantifiable, Superman did still defeat a being who creates galaxy-busing black holes. The power of the black hole is pretty much shown. If that still counts as unquatifiable then I have no idea why Samus is multi-galaxy due to producing a "white hole" (which is basically a negative black holes) of that power.
 
You may have a point in that regard, but nevertheless, the outlier aspect still stands. Alternately the black hole creator was a glass cannon, with far less physical ability than hax.
 
Well if Deity of Omnipotence was to write down the other similar feats he mentioned, it could possibly not be an outlier.

And I doubt the probe was much of a glass cannon since he probably got in the way of the black hole while using it.
 
No. Given that the vast majority of Superman's showings are of an enormously more limited scale, it is definitely an outlier, or a hax glass cannon.
 
Well Superman does hold back a LOT so if we were to get a few more examples of a higher level of power than usual it wouldn't be too far fetched
 
No. He has been severely pressed in battle on numerous occasions. There is no indication whatsoever of remotely galaxy level power within any stories that I can think of.
 
Antvasima said:
No. He has been severely pressed in battle on numerous occasions. There is no indication whatsoever of remotely galaxy level power within any stories that I can think of.
Such as?
 
Against Doomsday or the Elite for example.
 
Basically, if I remember correctly, within the same "Our Worlds At War" story as is cited above, he needed a massive boost to even move a planet, and this was treated as a very big deal, as Superman had not done so since the Silver Age.

I sincerely doubt that he was intended to normally possess galaxy level attack potency.
 
mmm... in those scans said that Mongul trained him to not hold back himself, like becoming stronger, and this was around the 2002;in what years the issues of Doomsday and the Elite "aired"?
 
Well, that was a nonsensical plot point. We have seen Superman strain on various occasions before that.

Doomsday managed to kill him, and later completely outmatched him during Hunter/Prey and Doomsday Wars.

The Elite happened in March 2001, and they also managed to severely injure him. Basic durability is not how "holding back" works.
 
Doomsday has never shown remotely that scale of power, and is only scaled to Superman's greatest major feat, due to that we have to keep some measure of consistency between the profiles. Not due to any illusions about that DC itself has any consistency to speak of.
 
Antvasima said:
Basically, if I remember correctly, within the same "Our Worlds At War" story as is cited above, he needed a massive boost to even move a planet, and this was treated as a very big deal, as Superman had not done so since the Silver Age.
I sincerely doubt that he was intended to normally possess galaxy level attack potency.
IIRC Superman didn't need the boost to move the planet, he needed it to move it through a "Boom tube ".
 
However, Superman has regularly been challenged by his opponents, and has never displayed any feats remotely of galactic scale. Even the large star level feat is extremely generous, as the size of Mageddon's anti-sun mau very well be much smaller than the calculation assumed.
 
Antvasima said:
Doomsday has never shown remotely that scale of power, and is only scaled to Superman's greatest major feat, due to that we have to keep some measure of consistency between the profiles. Not due to any illusions about that DC itself has any consistency to speak of.
Well no he hasn't, which is exactly my point. Superman shouldn't be held back just because he has a rival without many impressive feats. Doomsday has always been scaled in comparison to Superman, not the other way round.
 
That is not at all the way that I remember the feat. Nevertheless, I do not have limitless time and energy.

Post-Crisis Superman is my favourite superhero, but even I think that you are starting to turn extremely argumentative, bothersome, and unreasonable.

This upgrade is not going to take place. Sorry.
 
Superman should not be upgraded to galactic scale when all that he has are a few planet level feats, and one possible star level feat.

It would be ridiculously fanboyish to allow such an upgrade.

I would advise you to immediately and permanently drop this subject. I am busy, and do not have any more time and energy for this.
 
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