Possibly hax addition to Reio

[Valeska24]

Basically, Reio is said to transcend everything and that the concepts of old and new do not apply to him. In other words, Reio not only lacks/is independent of the concepts of new and old, but is also superior to them. So he should therefore qualify for possibly Transduality Type 1.

Source: BLEACH Can’t Fear Your Own World

 

[ZetsuEarly0]

I totally agree I agree.

 

[Burkiqwe]

Seems fine to me. I agree with the addition.

 

[ImmortalDread]

This is a bit taken out of context, and it is clearly not referring to transdaulity type 1 at all. Put me in disagreement.

For people who don't know, Reiō is Soul King

In this context, the term "concept of new and old" pertains to traditional notions of succession and lineage. However, the conversation indicates that these concepts are not applicable to the Reio. Thus, the Reio's position is not necessarily inherited or tied to a specific lineage. Instead, the selection or identification of the Reio is independent of traditional ideas of succession or age. The focus lies in finding a worthy individual to be revered as the Reio, irrespective of their past or lineage.

The last screenshot does not imply “transcendental” as in our definition of “qualitative transcendence”, it is literally a fancy word (even Aizen have mentioned it once). It refers to being powerful that impose beyond the boundaries of Shinigami powers and hollow powers.

It never refers to being “transcendental over the duality of new and old" explicitly. Likewise, it simply refers to be beyond the limitations of the existence of the individual. The word itself means to exceed the boundaries of normality, to go beyond what is perceptible or conceivable.

Also, why the last screenshot is taken out of context? You could have posted the entire context if it had been helpful to your argument.

 

[Valeska24]

In this context, the term "concept of new and old" pertains to traditional notions of succession and lineage. However, the conversation indicates that these concepts are not applicable to the Reio. Thus, the Reio's position is not necessarily inherited or tied to a specific lineage. Instead, the selection or identification of the Reio is independent of traditional ideas of succession or age. The focus lies in finding a worthy individual to be revered as the Reio, irrespective of their past or lineage.

Can you give me a proof in response to what you said because I remember it is directly talking about the concepts of old and new here

The last screenshot does not imply “transcendental” as in our definition of “qualitative transcendence”, it is literally a fancy word (even Aizen have mentioned it once). It refers to being powerful that impose beyond the boundaries of Shinigami powers and hollow powers.

It never refers to being “transcendental over the duality of new and old" explicitly. Likewise, it simply refers to be beyond the limitations of the existence of the individual. The word itself means to exceed the boundaries of normality, to go beyond what is perceptible or conceivable.

Reio being " transcendent" is also accepted by the wiki. Reio's profile already notes this.

 

[Damage3245]

ImmortalDread makes sense to me. Put me all in disagreement with this thread.

 

[Hellscream]

Agreed

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

I'd say Reio should only have transduality over life and death and progression and stillness. Old and new seems a bit too vague while the former are explicit dual concepts that exist within the verse that Reio in his prime has superiority over.

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

Disagree, Ichibei is purely talking in terms of succession which seem to be the more likely answer when you actually don't crop out the question Shunsui asked that lead to Ichibeis reply

 

[ImmortalDread]

Can you give me a proof in response to what you said because I remember it directly talking about the concepts of old and new here

Proof of what exactly? This is an interpretation of the context. And it fairly is consistent within the context you have given. "New and old does not apply to Reio" simply means that “succession” as in "passing ownership to someone else" and “lineage” as in "it is like a king gives title to his son after he dies" do not apply to Reio. In simple terms, it is not “a throne”.

Reio needs to be earned regardless of someone's past or lineage, and it is not bounded by traditional notions of those two aspects. You are aware, the whole context indicates who is the next soul king? They were discussing if Ichigo had the potential to be named the Reio.

Reio being " transcendent" is also accepted by the wiki. Reio's profile already notes this.

Transcendental in terms of being beyond their individual existence. For example, Aizen is considered to be transcendental because he imposed to be beyond both shinigamis and hollows. It is fairly being constantly referenced like that.

The term moderately has its own definition in verse. You can't use it as "qualitative superiority over a curtain duality" while it refers to something completely different.

Disagree, Ichibei is purely talking in terms of succession which seem to be the more likely answer when you actually don't crop out the question Shunsui asked that lead to Ichibeis reply

Thanks for the further context. It simply proves that my interpretation was indeed accurate.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Proof of what exactly? This is an interpretation of the context. And it fairly is consistent within the context you have given. "New and old does not apply to Reio" simply means that “succession” as in "passing ownership to someone else" and “lineage” as in "it is like a king gives title to his son after he dies" do not apply to Reio. In simple terms, it is not “a throne”.

Reio needs to be earned regardless of someone's past or lineage, and it is not bounded by traditional notions of those two aspects. You are aware, the whole context indicates who is the next soul king? They were discussing if Ichigo had the potential to be named the Reio.

Transcendental in terms of being beyond their individual existence. For example, Aizen is considered to be transcendental because he imposed to be beyond both shinigamis and hollows. It is fairly being constantly referenced like that.

The term moderately has its own definition in verse. You can't use it as "qualitative superiority over a curtain duality" while it refers to something completely different.

Thanks for the further context. It simply proves that my interpretation was indeed accurate.

What do you think about Reio having transduality over life and death considering he created that duality and said to transcend everything in the same context.

 

[Georredannea15]

First of all, if two opposite concepts are spread over the entire level of reality, this can be considered as a "duality". And from what I've seen in the scans, there is a transcendence. The profile confirms this.

Mehh I'm neutral for now

The reason for my neutrality is that Dread argues that the context of new-old concepts and transcendence is not like the duality and transcendence we know in the verse. For that you need something in the verse that says otherwise. So I am neutral for now, inclined to agree. But my opinion may change according to the context in which Dread says about the verse.

 

[ImmortalDread]

What do you think about Reio having transduality over life and death considering he created that duality and said to transcend everything in the same context.

I am not sure. I have heard some of those claims, but I never saw any shreds of evidence. If you could send some of them, I perhaps can give my opinion.
But it would be derailing topic for this thread as you may know.

transcend everything in the same context.

Eh, I really don't think it is appropriate to use this as evidence, unless the "beyond life and death" were actually cited in the context, I may really need the full screenshot of that context.

 

[Valeska24]

Proof of what exactly? This is an interpretation of the context. And it fairly is consistent within the context you have given. "New and old does not apply to Reio" simply means that “succession” as in "passing ownership to someone else" and “lineage” as in "it is like a king gives title to his son after he dies" do not apply to Reio. In simple terms, it is not

Reio needs to be earned regardless of someone's past or lineage, and it is not bounded by traditional notions of those two aspects. You are aware, the whole context indicates who is the next soul king? They were discussing if Ichigo had the potential to be named the Reio.

Transcendental in terms of being beyond their individual existence. For example, Aizen is considered to be transcendental because he imposed to be beyond both shinigamis and hollows. It is fairly being constantly referenced like that.

The term moderately has its own definition in verse. You can't use it as "qualitative superiority over a curtain duality" while it refers to something completely different.

Thanks for the further context. It simply proves that my interpretation was indeed accurate.

I understood what you said, this is much different than I thought, thanks for the context

 

[ImmortalDread]

The reason for my neutrality is that Dread argues that the context of new-old concepts and transcendence is not like the duality and transcendence we know in the verse. For that you need something in the verse that says otherwise. So I am neutral for now, inclined to agree. But my opinion may change according to the context in which Dread says about the verse.

See the screenshot above that @Sonoftanavast9 have sent, it contextually refers to succession. The OP simply take it out of context.

Moreover, the inclusion of "new and old" in the profile of transduality lacks coherence since are not abilities but rather traditional concepts of a system. Consequently, it remains unclear what specific immunity such a title would bestow upon someone. The context appears quite absurd as it does not pertain to any abilities but rather focuses on the nature of acquiring the said title.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I understood what you said, this is much different than I thought, thanks for the context

No issues, I am glad I helped with the matter.

 

[DonkeySlayer06]

The arguments presented do not stand illogical. Acceptable but seems to need more context

 

[Georredannea15]

See the screenshot above that @Sonoftanavast9 have sent, it contextually refers to succession. The OP simply take it out of context.

Moreover, the term "transduality" lacks coherence as it combines the notions of “new” and "old," which are not abilities but rather traditional concepts of a system. Consequently, it remains unclear what specific immunity such a title would bestow upon someone. The context appears quite absurd as it does not pertain to any abilities but rather focuses on the nature of acquiring the said title.

I see. So this "old and new" not a "duality", just something referring to Reio's title. Not any ability. Then I disagree with the OP.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

What do you think about Reio having transduality over life and death considering he created that duality and said to transcend everything in the same context.

He should get TD 1 for that. I did brought this up in discussion thread few months ago. Decieved and Arc said they will handle it in future when they revise SK profile.

 

[CHICKIEZ]

I disagree transcending the concepts of old and new seems more akin to being beyond a specific conceptual duality rather than being beyond a logical duality.

 

[Reio35]

Proof of what exactly? This is an interpretation of the context. And it fairly is consistent within the context you have given. "New and old does not apply to Reio" simply means that “succession” as in "passing ownership to someone else" and “lineage” as in "it is like a king gives title to his son after he dies" do not apply to Reio. In simple terms, it is not “a throne”.

Reio needs to be earned regardless of someone's past or lineage, and it is not bounded by traditional notions of those two aspects. You are aware, the whole context indicates who is the next soul king? They were discussing if Ichigo had the potential to be named the Reio.

Transcendental in terms of being beyond their individual existence. For example, Aizen is considered to be transcendental because he imposed to be beyond both shinigamis and hollows. It is fairly being constantly referenced like that.

The term moderately has its own definition in verse. You can't use it as "qualitative superiority over a curtain duality" while it refers to something completely different.

Thanks for the further context. It simply proves that my interpretation was indeed accurate.

Reio is a king and sits on the throne of heaven stated multiple times. Ichibei is just referring to the name itself being beyond old and new rather the person sealed to the name.


revere and call Reio.” “So basically you’re saying power is all in the name?” Looking conflicted, Kyoraku continued in a politer tone. “In the worst-case scenario, Ichigo would have been sealed to that name.” “Good thing he wasn’t, hmm?” Hyosube, his voice free of emotion, offhandedly all but confirmed that there really had been a chance that Ichigo might have been named the Reio. Then, teeth bared in a smile, Hyosube continued to speak of Ichigo Kurosaki. “That young lad caught


Shunsui stated Because of the name itself

 

[Reio35]

also reio's transcendence is referring to his power and existence as he is not bound by the laws of the World and can freely control them.

 

[Sonoftanavast9]

revere and call Reio.” “So basically you’re saying power is all in the name?” Looking conflicted, Kyoraku continued in a politer tone. “In the worst-case scenario, Ichigo would have been sealed to that name.” “Good thing he wasn’t, hmm?” Hyosube, his voice free of emotion, offhandedly all but confirmed that there really had been a chance that Ichigo might have been named the Reio. Then, teeth bared in a smile, Hyosube continued to speak of Ichigo Kurosaki. “That young lad caught

Again, no amount of willfully ignoring the context behind this statement by cutting out the literal question which spawned it will make it about transduality.

The context is as follows:

-The Reio (meaning Soul King) is the linchpin keeping the verses 3 worlds separate that basically prevents them from merging back together again (they basically desecrated his body turning him more or less into an immobile living corpse)
-The Reio got absorbed by Yhwach
-Yhwach then got killed
-They then take Yhwachs corpse use it as a replacement for the Reio
-Shunsui sees them messing with Yhwachs corpse and askes if Yhwachs corpse is the new Reio
-To which Ichibei replies that statement above of "The concept of old and new do not apply to the Reio. There's value in simply having something here to revere and call Reio"

On it's own the statement "The concept of old and new do not apply to the Reio" sounds enticing but in the wider context of the question which lead to Ichibei saying this in the first place, the events of yhwachs corpse being used as the reio and the fact that it is literally followed by what Ichibei says in his very next sentence which I highlight it's clear that he's referring to the fact that who/whatever replaces the Reio doesn't matter as long as there is something there to replace him not that the OG Reio himself transcended the concepts of old and new as a form of transduality.

Edit: hell using this to argue transduality for prime reio won't even make sense since this whole conversation isn't about prime Reio and instead about his living corpse form & whatever replaces it

 

[Reio35]

Again, no amount of willfully ignoring the context behind this statement by cutting out the literal question which spawned it will make it about transduality.

The context is as follows:

-The Reio (meaning Soul King) is the linchpin keeping the verses 3 worlds separate that basically prevents them from merging back together again (they basically desecrated his body turning him more or less into an immobile living corpse)
-The Reio got absorbed by Yhwach
-Yhwach then got killed
-They then take Yhwachs corpse use it as a replacement for the Reio
-Shunsui sees them messing with Yhwachs corpse and askes if Yhwachs corpse is the new Reio
-To which Ichibei replies that statement above of "The concept of old and new do not apply to the Reio. There's value in simply having something here to revere and call Reio"

On it's own the statement "The concept of old and new do not apply to the Reio" sounds enticing but in the wider context of the question which lead to Ichibei saying this in the first place, the events of yhwachs corpse being used as the reio and the fact that it is literally followed by what Ichibei says in his very next sentence which I highlight it's clear that he's referring to the fact that who/whatever replaces the Reio doesn't matter as long as there is something there to replace him not that the OG Reio himself transcended the concepts of old and new as a form of transduality.

Edit: hell using this to argue transduality for prime reio won't even make sense since this whole conversation isn't about prime Reio and instead about his living corpse form & whatever replaces it

Your agreement makes no sense. Your essentially saying ichibei is being metaphorical when he says the reio is beyond concepts of old and new. When ichibei says theirs value in having someone their to call the Reio. He's not saying it doesn't matter who's reio or not that's your own false interpretation which completely ignores most of the context.


-Shunsui sees yhwach and ask is he the new reio

-Ichibei replies "the concepts of old and new doesn't apply to the reio". Why? Because theirs value in having someone their to be called/named Reio.

-To which shunsui replies"So the power is the name". Soul king is a name/power passed on to a individual thus their can be no new soul king Because it's a name/power passed on to someone. Then Shunsui goes on to say ichigo might have been sealed to that name. All the context points towards the name reio itself

 

[ImmortalDread]

I understood what you said, this is much different than I thought, thanks for the context

Since he agreed with it, and it supposed to be misunderstanding, can we close the thread?