Possible Zeno Upgrade

[MinatoSparkle]

In Episode 67 of Dragon Ball Super, Zeno erased everything. The entire timeline was just gone. This feat currently puts him at 2-C, but I think he could be higher. I say this because many times it's been shown there's black space in the timeline that seems to stretch much farther than the size of the Multiverse. Also, it's possible the World of Void was destroyed as well, since Zeno destroyed EVERYTHING, and considering the World of Void was said to exist outside the Mulitverse, this is very impressive. I know there was no complete concrete proof Zeno wiped out all the space outside the Multiverse or the World of Void, but considering it was stated Zeno could destroy anything, all of reality, it doesn't seem too far fetched. This is the proof.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYb72lgol2M At 1:16

And while it's not as clear here, it's still stated Zeno can destroy a structure an unquantifiable amount larger than a universe in this subbed video at 1:52. Since earlier in the video, Whis said he can destroy anything, a "world" meaning all of reality is a possibility too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qXK7mjmwvEM

Now, I'm not gonna suddenly say Zeno is 2-A for this, as there is nothing really even suggesting Dragon Ball reality is the size of infinite universes, unless reality means anything no matter what it is, including nothingness (which I don't think is the case), but I do think these feats and statements are enough to put him at "At Least 2-C."

 

[Cringu]

I personally believe that destroying the World of Void would require you to be a very high degree of Low 2-C, since shaking the World of Void is listed as High 3-A and destroying it would likely require you to be infinitely stronger, since it is stated to be "infinite nothingness". The space between the different universes of Dragon Ball are also unquantifiable since our only observations of them are orbs. I think it should remain at Low 2-C for these reasons, but feel free to bring up more points if needed. However if this were to be upgraded, then At least 2-C would be appropriate.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I personally believe that destroying the World of Void would require you to be a very high degree of Low 2-C, since shaking the World of Void is listed as High 3-A and destroying it would likely require you to be infinitely stronger, since it is stated to be "infinite nothingness". The space between the different universes of Dragon Ball are also unquantifiable since our only observations of them are orbs. I think it should remain at Low 2-C for these reasons, but feel free to bring up more points if needed. However if this were to be upgraded, then At least 2-C would be appropriate.

There's still the part about Zeno being able to erase all of reality, which seems pretty At Least 2-C to me.

 

[Cringu]

There's still the part about Zeno being able to erase all of reality, which seems pretty At Least 2-C to me.

At least 2-C would mean that there is a possibility of Zeno being 2-B. Which doesn't make sense at all looking at how many universes there are in a timeline (12, possibly 36) Being 2-B would be 500x baseline 2-C (baseline 2-C is 2 universes, baseline 2-B is 1000 universes). Unless the space can be argued to be 500/12 universe size, which is a big stretch and is probably not gonna happen. If we're talking about Zeno being able to destroy multiple timelines at the same time, then yes, that would warrant an at least 2C rating, but there has been a thread about that topic before and it was declined. But, there is the fact that we don't know what Zeno's full capabilities are, which in my opinion would be "at least 2C."

 

[MinatoSparkle]

There's still the part about Zeno being able to erase all of reality, which seems pretty At Least 2-C to me.

At least 2-C would mean that there is a possibility of Zeno being 2-B. Which doesn't make sense at all looking at how many universes there are in a timeline (12, possibly 36) Being 2-B would be 500x baseline 2-C (baseline 2-C is 2 universes, baseline 2-B is 1000 universes). Unless the space can be argued to be 500/12 universe size, which is a big stretch and is probably not gonna happen. If we're talking about Zeno being able to destroy multiple timelines at the same time, then yes, that would warrant an at least 2C rating, but there has been a thread about that topic before and it was declined. But, there is the fact that we don't know what Zeno's full capabilities are, which in my opinion would be "at least 2C."

It's not certain the space and the amount of distance covered to reach The World of Void would be multiversal distances, but it's always possible. And don't forget the all of reality part again.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Bump.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

No, this isn't working, especially with our recent policy clarification. The World of Void isn't an infinite number of universes and thus isn't 2-A. In fact, it isn't even 2-C, just Low 2-C.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

In fact, isn't destroying WoV just a high 3-A feat according to some staff?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

No, this isn't working, especially with our recent policy clarification. The World of Void isn't an infinite number of universes and thus isn't 2-A. In fact, it isn't even 2-C, just Low 2-C.

That...wasn't even really my argument. It was stated the World of Void exists outside the Multiverse, meaning Zeno's blast had to reach a VEEEERY far distance to theoretically destroy it. It could even be an infinite distance Zeno's blast had to travel and destroy. And don't say he can't destroy the multiverse and world of void simultaneously, as Whis has said he can destroy all of reality. And Whis is very knowledgeable, so he'd know likely about the distance between the world of void and the multiverse. I don't know about you, but erasing all of reality seems pretty "At Least 2-C" to me.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Goku

Sorry I misunderstood then. I read this as another one of those "WoV is 2-A" threads.

But no, that still doesn't work. Reaching a far distance is irrelevant once you break the 5-D space between universes. WoV would just be a universe in that sense.

And that is assuming that the "destroy everything" statement actually included the WoV, which it isn't implied to. Just the 12 remaining universes were implied to be able to be destroyed.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

I'm sorry about repeatedly bringing this up, but being able to erase "all of reality" probaably means that. If Whis meant the multiverse, he would've just said that. And it was said Zeno could do it in an instant, meaning he might even be able to destroy more, but that's kind of stretching it.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Like I said, even if it was included, it would only be one extra universe in this case, not 2-B or 2-A.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Like I said, even if it was included, it would only be one extra universe in this case, not 2-B or 2-A.

Well, my main point other than the reality statement was that there appears to be infinite blackness that is much larger than the multiverse that was erased and warped into blue nothingness. I'm not about to say it's definitely multiverse sized, but we really don't know that it's not either.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

Infinite space isn't enough. It is still contained inside of a normal space-time continuum, and is nothing more than Low 2-C. Sorry, but being "infinite in size" loses meaning past tier 3.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Infinite space isn't enough. It is still contained inside of a normal space-time continuum, and is nothing more than Low 2-C. Sorry, but being "infinite in size" loses meaning past tier 3.

When I say "infinite blackness," I don't mean in a 3D sense. I basically just mean it as a way of saying it's unquantifiably larger than the size of the multiverse. It could be infinite 4D nothingness too. But we don't know if it's either or neither. I'm not saying it's very likely, otherwise I'd be saying "At Least 2-C, likely 2-A," which I'm not at all.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

You misinterpret. I meant infinite space. Infinite space is still not enough to get past Low 2-C.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

You misinterpret. I meant infinite space. Infinite space is still not enough to get past Low 2-C.

Even if it's on a different dimensional tier?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

There's still the part about Zeno being able to erase all of reality, which seems pretty At Least 2-C to me.

At least 2-C would mean that there is a possibility of Zeno being 2-B. Which doesn't make sense at all looking at how many universes there are in a timeline (12, possibly 36) Being 2-B would be 500x baseline 2-C (baseline 2-C is 2 universes, baseline 2-B is 1000 universes). Unless the space can be argued to be 500/12 universe size, which is a big stretch and is probably not gonna happen. If we're talking about Zeno being able to destroy multiple timelines at the same time, then yes, that would warrant an at least 2C rating, but there has been a thread about that topic before and it was declined. But, there is the fact that we don't know what Zeno's full capabilities are, which in my opinion would be "at least 2C."

Well, he hasn't been shown to wipe out multiple timelines, but Merged Zamasu was entering them, and Zeno easily wiped him out. Also, I know anything past tier 3 is completely different from what comes before it, but still, there are many characters who's full powers haven't been shown and they're AP is listed at At Least X, so Zeno should have it too.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

You misinterpret. I meant infinite space. Infinite space is still not enough to get past Low 2-C.

But what if it's infinite space larger than a multiverse that can warrant a 2-C rating for being destroyed?

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Goku

Doesn't matter. Timelines must be separate to truly be anything more than Low 2-C.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

@Goku
Doesn't matter. Timelines must be separate to truly be anything more than Low 2-C.

Read above my previous comment.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Seems like you assume that this void is the void that exists between the universes. Visibly it's not that and if it was, Zen'o wouldn't be able to destroy it.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Seems like you assume that this void is the void that exists between the universes. Visibly it's not that and if it was, Zen'o wouldn't be able to destroy it.

Why do you say that?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Bump.

 

[RayleighHaki]

someone close this cancerous thread please

 

[MinatoSparkle]

someone close this cancerous thread please

Why is it so cancerous?

 

[RayleighHaki]

cause you have no solid evidence, and instead you're just making assumptions. zeno is not 2-B or anything higher

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Probably. But we don't know. Zeno's never shown any effort in anything. With most characters who are like that, they're given an At least X rating, so I thought this would be the same. It'd be different if it was specified Zeno had a limit, or that he was using a certain percentage of his power, but it's not.

 

[Chartate101]

here's the difference: it is litterally not possible for Zen-Oh to be 2-B as there aren't over 1001 universes in DB

 

[MinatoSparkle]

here's the difference: it is litterally not possible for Zen-Oh to be 2-B as there aren't over 1001 universes in DB

So? If some Tier 1 being were suddenly in the DB universe, it doesn't mean they're suddenly 2-C. Just because there isn't that much to destroy, doesn't mean that he can't. He can destroy all of reality effortlessly afterall.

 

[Chartate101]

my point is that there cannot possibly be enough evidence for 2-B because there aren't even enough universes for him to prove he's 2-B

 

[MinatoSparkle]

And there's really nothing to contradict an At least, if he can destroy anything without effort.

 

[ZacharyGrossman273]

I think "Unknown, at least 2-C" is good.

 

[RayleighHaki]

here's the difference: it is litterally not possible for Zen-Oh to be 2-B as there aren't over 1001 universes in DB

So? If some Tier 1 being were suddenly in the DB universe, it doesn't mean they're suddenly 2-C. Just because there isn't that much to destroy, doesn't mean that he can't. He can destroy all of reality effortlessly afterall.

you have to be kidding me. yes, that tier 1 character would still be tier 1 despite being in the DB universe because he/she already has sufficient evidence that came from his/her respective universe. that characters rating is already justified due to having originated from a universe that can support his/her rating with evidence.

however, zeno is just from the db universe, and the db universe does not have more than 1000 universes so it's impossible for their to actually be solid proof that justifies a rating higher than 2-C. close this thread already

 

[MinatoSparkle]

here's the difference: it is litterally not possible for Zen-Oh to be 2-B as there aren't over 1001 universes in DB

So? If some Tier 1 being were suddenly in the DB universe, it doesn't mean they're suddenly 2-C. Just because there isn't that much to destroy, doesn't mean that he can't. He can destroy all of reality effortlessly afterall.

you have to be kidding me. yes, that tier 1 character would still be tier 1 despite being in the DB universe because he/she already has sufficient evidence that came from his/her respective universe.
however, zeno is just from the db universe, and the db universe does not have more than 1001 universes so it's impossible for their to actually be solid proof that justifies a rating that is higher than 2-C

Read above.

 

[Son_Gandhi]

Agree with Zachary, it really is unknown and is no less than 2-C.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Exactly what I'm saying.

 

[AKM sama]

There is no proof that the DB verse has more than 1000 universes. What will we base this "At least" on? That he destroyed 12 universes casually? That's still 2-C.