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Possible Speed Upgrade for the Persona 3 and 4 Cast

HeroicDefender97

HeroicDefender97

228
20
Credit goes to Thomas The Hype Engine for granting me permission to use his calc

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Message_Wall:Thomas_The_hype_Engine

Screenshot 2017-07-23 13.34.03


Diameter of the Planet: http://i.imgur.com/tOFYPDv.png

The Distance: http://www.1728.org/angsize.htm

Where this feat occurs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENxZxePMjhk&feature=youtu.be&t=436

The discussion here is the canoncity of Junpei's Instant Kill move--- But should this be accepted as canon like the Instant Kill moves were accepted as canon for the Guilty Gear characters. Then this high end Mach 3.6k speed upgrade should scale to most if not all the Persona 3 and 4 cast.

And both Minato Arisato/Makoto Yuki and Yu Narukami are both undoubtably superior to Junpei so it would make sense for them to be scaled to this (if it's accepted that is).
 
I am fine with this Minato has a casual sub relativistic speed feat and I always wondered why there was no calcs for speed feats on this verse.
 
@Kinkiest

Because in the case of P3 and P4--- They don't have that many speed feats to work off of outside of being capable of reacting to Ziio spells
 
HeroicDefender97 said:
@Kinkiest

Because in the case of P3 and P4--- They don't have that many speed feats to work off of outside of being capable of reacting to Ziio spells
Click to expand...
I dont think it is that tbh I mean, partly But the verse hasnt got the attention it deserved. There is some feats and gameplay to work with, it is just there isnt any calcs out there for it. Especially on this wiki.
 
To check this calculation, we have...

Persona 4 calc
  • Planet diameter = 1491px
  • Screen height = 505px
  • angsizing equation = 2atan(tan(70/2)*(object size/panel height)) = 2atan(tan(70/2)*(1491px/505px)) = 1.9 rad
  • Object size is the size of Earth and not the cropped part btw.
  • 1 rad = 57.2958 deg, so 1.9 rad = 108.86 deg
  • using this calculator
    • Angle = 108.86 deg
    • Size = 12742 km
    • Distance = 4556.1 km
  • Timeframe = 20.69 - 18.41 seconds = 2.28 seconds (Using high-end time frame because 60 seconds has no basis)
  • Speed = Distance/Time = 4556.1 km / 2.28 seconds = 1998.3km/s, or Mach 5872.14
Ehh...
 
@Lina If we did apply this upgrade, it will probably be a seperate key. I am fineish with this. Although it might be too inconsistent to concretely use on the wiki.

I dont think there is any other MHS+ in the persona verse. Minus MFTL+ Yaldoboath, which doesnt apply here And Minato sub relativistic feat, which only he did.

I will want to hear more input first tbh.
 
No idea about how scaling even works in this verse, so might as well wait for someone who knows more about this verse I guess.
 
Lina Shields said:
No idea about how scaling even works in this verse, so might as well wait for someone who knows more about this verse I guess.
Click to expand...
I think the only other person beside me who is well versed of the profiles on here is Matthew. Dragon already commented.

Tldr, I am fine with it on a personal basis. I will wait until at least one of them chimes in again.
 
Scaling from Insta-Kills in P4A does not seem to be a bad idea considering these types of feats are nothing new to the Persona franchise in general. So I feel using these animations are okay since we do so for other fighting games and Persona 5 as well.
 
I agree I think to keep it simple Top Tiers like Margaret, Yu Elizabeth: At Least MHS+ Junpei: MHS+ The Rest: Likely MHS+ (Comparable to Junpei) I might be forgetting a top tier or two but that sums it up.
 
As someone who tried to get this exact feat calced a few months ago, I totally agree with this. Though, somebody should definitely take a look at Akihiko's instant kill before deciding whether they all should be usable, as it could potentially lead to a massive tier jump for reasons similar to what put the P5 cast at 3-C.
 
So we have this rule from the Cinematic Time page.

If during a cut a change of scenery occurred and the character wasn't depicted traveling before, or if obviously a part of the travel between two points is left out, it should not be assumed that the time was depicted linearly, hence cinematic time shouldn't be used in such cases.
  • Now, looking at the feat in question again, particularly between the points between 7:18 and 7:20 in the video, we see a cut in said scene where the screen blacks out around 7:19.
  • As for what this means, we have absolutely no idea how long it actually took for said character in question to travel from ground level (7:18) to the outside the Earth's atmosphere (7:20), as all we saw between the two points in time was a black screen.
I think that this calculation violates one of the rules of cinematic time here on site, thus it can't be used.
 
I will inform Matthew about this thread.
 
I think that it is pretty obvious that the whole sequence happened extremely quickly, and it wouldn't be out of place in Persona.

Cloud-to-ground lightning as attacks is very common.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/V6iZ-CXDCSc_i1FQs0hkNpbnxdOkjIH8e-ohpyqWwQ=w400-h225

https://gfycat.com/PitifulMasculineFlyingfish

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewGSuvGMhF4&feature=youtu.be&t=1m21s

Also Elizabeth punched Erebus into the moon casually, but she's a top-tier.

I'm fine with MHS+ Persona 3 / 4 scaling from that feat, and Personas using Cloud-to-Ground Lightning.
 
MHS+ via cloud-to-ground lightning is one thing, but that above calculation still violates one of the rules of cinematic time, thus it cannot be used.

  • You are still free to set their speeds to Massively Hypersonic+ however.
  • Elizabeth punching Erebus to the Moon would a really impressive feat, although did the Moon stay intact or did it explode apart.
 
@Lina

I don't see how that feat is really cinematic timing. It clearly happens in seconds, likely less than a minute. Junpei wouldn't be standing there ready to bat the opponent for an hour.
 
We have more feats in a fighting game then we do in a main, that is hilarious

Even MHS+ main games is fine by me Zio and related spells are cloud to ground based lightning to begin with last I checked.

Still am fine with this.
 
KinkiestSins said:
We have more feats in a fighting game then we do in a main, that is hilarious
Even MHS+ main games is fine by me Zio and related spells are cloud to ground based lightning to begin with last I checked.

Still am fine with this.
Click to expand...
Because it's visual novel. And you know how OP are the visual novels :^)
 
Kinkiest is right. If I'm not mistaken the Zio animation always shows it falling from the sky into the opponent's head. The anime makes it more evident as you can seem in what I posted.
 
I am still not sure how to handle this. They could all be considered MHS+, but it's not because of the calc that I posted.

Secondly, even if said feat happens in seconds, we need to know the exact number of seconds that feat happened (without the black screen part).

A sequence of events for this will be posted.
 
Also, look at the calc. It doesn't use the on-screen time. It uses a Low-End, Mid-End and High-End timeframe.

The Mid-End is 60 seconds and it is still Mach 150.7, and I think that's very reasonable. The scene is continuous enough the the scene-cut represents more of a scenery transition than a time-skip.
 
Not a big fan of the low-end and the mid-ends of that calculation as there is no justification for using an assumed timeframe here.

However, if the scene-cut would count as a scenery translation rather than a time-skip, I am willing to accept the calculation, provided that other calculation group members are okay with it. I am referring to the high-end timeframe of that calc.
 
MagiSinbad said:
somebody should definitely take a look at Akihiko's instant kill before deciding whether they all should be usable
err...the victim of Akihiko instant kills are just big as the continent of his "earth". So i dont think we can use that as a feat.
Click to expand...
Well yeah, obviously the Earth is fake, but Akihiko seems to create a realm with stars and whatnot in the background for the attack to take place in. Something similar to what upgraded characters in the Zelda verse and Persona 5.
 
The Mid-End is being used due to the obvious assumption that Junbei wouldn't be holding of that fixed baseball position for very long. It's doubtful that he would be waiting for over a minute, and even that is a very low-end.
 
@Ed

That isn't a real dimension, and it would be an outlier for Persona 3 / 4. Even the most powerful chars are only 5-B.
 
True, It wouldn't be inconsistent with Persona as a whole though... but eh. (At the very least it seems like some type of spatial manipulation or something similar.)

As for the actual main topic I definitely agree in that case.
 
I'm glad to find this topic. I've trying to upgrade the Persona characters with no success:

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/515770

A speed feat that can help in this topic is in the beggining (I think it begings in the first minute) of the fourth movie where we see the fight between Aigis and Ryoji. I've asked for help to calculate it but then nobody was interested.
 
Might as well post some relevant speed feats:

-Chie's agneyastra summons meteors: https://youtu.be/SSLKwCd7RVI?t=43

(Given Chie using fire magic makes no sense it's pretty obvious they're ablating and characters can keep up with them, doubles as a DC feat since in the original game she can summon 25 with a single attack). Akihiko also seems to ablate with some of his attacks.

-Aigis and Naoto's gun attacks also have travel time.

-In akihiko's insta-kill the rocks aren't even moving when he passes by them, yet in the next shot they're moving decently fast (globe thing is obviously not really planet sized, but still impressive)

Also, P3's weapon descriptions:

Lightining Bow: "Bow that shoots arrows as fast as lightning"

Railgun: "Shoots a Metal slug via electromagnetism"

Grand Slasher: "It's trail is bright and fast as lightning"

Also, the anime has a couple of really impressive speed feats for Yu, namely bullet and lightning timing, which could be used for a composite profile/tab.

(Also, I found a couple of DC feats that could be decently impressive)
 
Might as well post some more feats while I'm at it:

The anime speed feat I was talking about:

https://youtu.be/A3u49GNz-lM?t=31

There's even 2 frames where the lightning is frozen in mid air, yet Yu moves a bit.

Bullet timing is in the Golden the animation Ep10 at about 12:10

In terms of DC feats that haven't been calced yet:

https://youtu.be/VZ83GR4FrCc?t=186

Hi-no-kagutsuchi's death results in the dispersion of the red fog surrounding the town.

This feat in the anime:

https://youtu.be/HbaBnnJ3Pdg?t=309

Crater should be ~2 kilotons.

Also I noticed this while checking the P3 weapon descriptions:

Antimatter Cannon: "Annihilation occurs in the target's body"

I also found a bunch of P5 feats but those are for another time.
 
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