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Exactly Sandman, finally somebody who agrees. Darkseid even said in the comic his power won't be enough to damage the multiverse in its entirety. Also yes, I totally agree with the Earth point, it has been shown consistently in DC that if you destroy earths, then you also start a multiverse chain reaction.
Like in Sinestro corps war it even states that if one earth gets destroyed, then it is gonna collapse all realities. Showing that really power wise beings like Anti Monitor or Darkseid are not that impressive. (Ignoring that the multiverse comes from One Universe in total, when the Universe was split into different parts, each part stated weaker than the whole it was meant to be).
I would give New Gods multiversal+ at best tbh.
Like in Sinestro corps war it even states that if one earth gets destroyed, then it is gonna collapse all realities. Showing that really power wise beings like Anti Monitor or Darkseid are not that impressive. (Ignoring that the multiverse comes from One Universe in total, when the Universe was split into different parts, each part stated weaker than the whole it was meant to be).
I would give New Gods multiversal+ at best tbh.
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When did Darkseid say that?
We can even remove the Darkseid and FC debate from the equation it doesn't seem to matter.
Regardless they exist within a higher metaphysical plane of the DC Multiverse to the multiverses within the Bleed and explicitly transcend it. Therefore Multiversal+ is just downplay at best we even have them higher at the moment as well.
We can even remove the Darkseid and FC debate from the equation it doesn't seem to matter.
Regardless they exist within a higher metaphysical plane of the DC Multiverse to the multiverses within the Bleed and explicitly transcend it. Therefore Multiversal+ is just downplay at best we even have them higher at the moment as well.
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The feat that gave him Low 1-C wasn't that Darkseid was creating a singularity where he was drawing the multiverse in himself. But that his mere fall damaged the Orrery and could've destroyed it.
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There's no real indication it was because of a "cosmic lychnpin" either as far as I'm aware. Darkseid was affecting the entire multiverse at once (by falling on it) rather than infecting one earth/universe and causing a chain Reaction. I would say just because we saw the events from the perspective of a few Earth doesn't necessarily mean this lychpin thing applies. It definitely isn't the case in every storyline after all.
Oliver_de_jesus
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We also have the statement that the multiverse is just bubbles from the real world (4th world) IIRC
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https://2.bp.blogspot.com/wTYWDP4NI...ss-L9K4k8rZtuSTA0eDjwcmvqRWF5NEa3OBJWYn=s1600 Time & space was cracking due to the ALE, not Darkseid. TFDS did not bring anything to fall.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/aUR6MfDqp...2hQ8G5CLMTb1gcS6VxSFfZjJHR1wSjUBoUJhy6BsyA=s0
Darkseid needs to wield power to actually affect the Multiverse and make people bow.
There is more, but for my case this should be enough. Ignoring the Miracle Machine was also stated above Darkseid even without TFDS being weakened (poisoned). Existing in a higher plane? Ok? The God sphere got destroyed by Nabu and Darkseid resides within reality now.
Nor does a higher plane matter because the power still isnt impressive. Darkseid even in new 52 needed time just to destroy a Universe, and literally did it all with the planet connection DC has.
The Fall damaging the Orrey is already addressed by Sandman above.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/aUR6MfDqp...2hQ8G5CLMTb1gcS6VxSFfZjJHR1wSjUBoUJhy6BsyA=s0
Darkseid needs to wield power to actually affect the Multiverse and make people bow.
There is more, but for my case this should be enough. Ignoring the Miracle Machine was also stated above Darkseid even without TFDS being weakened (poisoned). Existing in a higher plane? Ok? The God sphere got destroyed by Nabu and Darkseid resides within reality now.
Nor does a higher plane matter because the power still isnt impressive. Darkseid even in new 52 needed time just to destroy a Universe, and literally did it all with the planet connection DC has.
The Fall damaging the Orrey is already addressed by Sandman above.
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It was explicitly Darkseid's fall that cracked reality, I posted that scan above. ALE was just used as mindhax and willpower manipulation to make everyone succumb to his will and literally steal their identities. As shown in the Shilo Norman run in with Darkseid and literally the events of FC as a whole.
The Miracle Machine was able to affect up to the Monitors.
New 52 is just an avatar of Darkseid and Darkseid is constantly limited by Boomtubes.
The Miracle Machine was able to affect up to the Monitors.
New 52 is just an avatar of Darkseid and Darkseid is constantly limited by Boomtubes.
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Yes, there is. the Main Earth and Earth 33 were called as "Axis of Creation" and within the storyline itselft, The Monitors called New Earth as the "Foundation Stone of All Existence"EmperorRorepme said:
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/VI1P_RXOR...Btcqa-2qpvXT79Z_Q4Eur9zE2p5HwJI49Udisho=s1600\
Then there's also this
"New Earth is secure. The Bleed drains are intact"
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/f-qBQ6ctZ...NrtTpTjEbDiXnyslkjcY_jVY_num3GdNLhHxIHb=s1600
>Darkseid was affecting the entire multiverse at once (by falling on it) rather than infecting one earth/universe and causing a chain Reaction.
No, Darkseid fell on New Earth and his fall damaged it. The entire reality was cracked and the New Earth was turned into a singularity. The main problem is not Darkseid's Fall. The Monitors , as shown in the scan above, said the Multiverse was fine and that New Earth/the Bleed Drain was secure. The main problem is when Darksaid crunched and turned New Earth into a doomsday singularity, which will cause the eventual destruction of the Orrery because of New Earth being the Foundation Stone of All Existence/Axis of Creation/Bleed Drain
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Ok I agree with New Earth being the lynchpin in this storyline. The problem I have now is when Darkseid fell on panel it wasn't on New Earth solely. It was on the entire multiverse. New Earth being the cornerstone of the multiverse in this story-line doesn't necessarily debunk that. Even if we were to take Darkseid's affect on the multiverse to just be because of the chain reaction with New Earth you still have to take into account the size of his True Form to fall on the multiverse.
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Yes, thats why I said he has other feat but I think we should not credit him with the destruction of the orrery.Though he seemed gigantic eventually Darkseid fell on a single universe only (Mandrakk saying the dying god (Darkseid) has left the universe. Him falling at the base of the Orrery which is New Earth etc ), the New Earth universe. And Darkseids Fall did not damage the entire Orrery, we only know that it caused cracks across the New Earth reality.
In fact the Monitors were inspecting the Orrery (This is after Darkseids Fall) and they said everything is fine/repaired. https://2.bp.blogspot.com/f-qBQ6ctZ...NrtTpTjEbDiXnyslkjcY_jVY_num3GdNLhHxIHb=s1600
The real damage happened when Darkseid gave a thumbsdown to reality and turned Earth into a singularity. https://2.bp.blogspot.com/9N_lcn-rS...YkiPl1oTj0zPz_ZYjuFQg9Nr0NAlzz-YYEmcZOcO9E=s0
In fact the Monitors were inspecting the Orrery (This is after Darkseids Fall) and they said everything is fine/repaired. https://2.bp.blogspot.com/f-qBQ6ctZ...NrtTpTjEbDiXnyslkjcY_jVY_num3GdNLhHxIHb=s1600
The real damage happened when Darkseid gave a thumbsdown to reality and turned Earth into a singularity. https://2.bp.blogspot.com/9N_lcn-rS...YkiPl1oTj0zPz_ZYjuFQg9Nr0NAlzz-YYEmcZOcO9E=s0
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Also, I cant believe that I'm now arguing against a New Gods upgrade when I was trying to upgrade them to 1-A before lol
Not saying that Darkseid dont have other multiversal feats but I'm not jusr comfortable with upgrading him based on the stuff I mentioned above
Not saying that Darkseid dont have other multiversal feats but I'm not jusr comfortable with upgrading him based on the stuff I mentioned above
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I agree with you on the Orrey stuff then.
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I'm aware of that. But thats at the very end of the crisis. Which is after Darkseid turned Earth into a singularity. His fall is the main cause, its the beginning of the series of events that will endanger the multiverse. His fall is the cause but thats because he fell on New Earth. If he fell on other universe then it wont do the same danage
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He explicitly fell on the multiverse though not on New Earth.
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I guess I see your point.
Oliver_de_jesus
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So what are their exploits and what tier would they have?
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I mean Darkseid has multiple fights with Orion where he affects all of creation. If we're basing it off PotMs blog I would place them higher than they are right now at the least.
Oliver_de_jesus
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So bump? if you want you can wait and recreate until after the move if you have too much effort already on your mind or do not want to debate the issue because of how controversial it is
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We went over the fall, and again the ALE was directly shown to cause the crack, plus the earth warping he did (main earth). Darkseid becoming the multiverse was used for the ALE, like Darkseid is (the quote) literally refers to Darkseid becoming all through ALE. Pretty sure new 52 shown it was true form, just boomtubed down to earth. The Monitors? Same beings contaminated by the multiverse.EmperorRorepme said:
