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Possible Immunity/Unconventional Resistance to Soul & Mind Manipulation - Maou Gakuin

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imZer0Null

imZer0Null

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Hello. This thread was created to possibly give some characters from Maou Gakuin Immunity/*Unconventional Resistance to Soul & Mind Manipulation.

From Rimuru Tempest (Web Novel)'s profile:

Immunity to Mind Manipulation (Rimuru's memories are stored in his astral body, and as long as he retains his conscious soul and memory, he can be revived even when his body is completely damaged. In other words, he can think with his soul and is thus immune to mind control effects)
Click to expand...

Take note that I'm only using the above as a reference, and I won't be using it as a reason for the CRT to be accepted.

From LN Volume 1 Keyword:

The basic concept of existence, which is hidden in all living things. A good magician can be reborn with his original memory kept at his source, and even if his body perishes, as long as his source is intact, he can be revived.
Click to expand...

So, similar to Rimuru, "good magicians" in Maou Gakuin can keep their memories at their source, and even if their body perishes, as long as their source is intact, they can be revived.

Reasons why I believe this could possibly grant Immunity/*Unconventional Resistance to Soul & Mind Manipulation:

1. Memories kept at the source =/= mind and thoughts. Being able to affect someone's mind and thoughts doesn't automatically mean you can affect memories that are kept at their concept (source).

2. From LN Volume 1 Chapter 6:

"In the first place, magic power is born from the source in our bodies. To put it simply, from our soul or psyche, but the source lies even deeper. It's what makes us who we are."
Click to expand...

The source exists deeper than the body, soul and mind, so if someone is able to function with ONLY their source, then obviously they don't need their body, soul or mind to function.

3. From WN Chapter 29 :: English MTL

During Anos' fight with Ivis, Anos was killed by having his time accelerated infinitely. Basically, his body aged an eternity. Anos only has longevity, and he himself stated he can't live an eternity, so unless the soul and mind can remain intact after literally ageing past their limit, it's safe to say that Anos' body, soul and mind were erased. After being aged an eternity, Anos revived himself from ONLY his source, meaning he was able to cast magic while not having a body, soul and mind.
Anos himself also states that "those who have mastered magic" can use magic from ONLY their source.

4. From WN Chapter 401 :: English MTL

During Anos' fight with Wesnera, Anos was incapacitated. He was actively being affected by paralysis inducement, power nullification, perception manipulation and mind manipulation, which he didn't resist. Despite being incapacitated by these abilities, Anos was still able to act as ONLY a source. Anos was able to move his source out of and back into his body while incapacitated, which allowed him to adapt to the abilities.

Based on the information above, I think any characters who are able to cast magic from ONLY their source should get the following:

Immunity/*Unconventional Resistance to Soul Manipulation & Mind Manipulation (Good magicians can keep their memories at their source, which is the basic concept of existence that exists beyond the body, soul and mind, and even if their body perishes, as long as their source is intact, they can be revived. In other words, they can "think" with their source (concept) and are thus immune/*and thus have unconventional resistance to abilities that affect the soul or mind)
 
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It seems good, I always find it weird about keeping the memories in the soul/concept be immunity to mind hax, because mind hax isnt only due brain, it is mind in general, which doesnt need to be physical, so, rimuru and arnos case should be only Unconventional resistance to mind manip, but if the wiki treats it as Immunity to mind manip, it qualifies, yeah
 
Actually it seems to be the same case for both of them, to affect Anos' mind, you must be able to affect his source, and also in the case of Soul, Taking into account how the source works, i found it strange since I think Anos is a being that does not need his soul to live, since he depends mainly on his source.
 
Bernkastelll said:
.
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I believe in this case it should be immunity, since no matter how powerful the soul & mind hax might be, if it doesn't affect the memories kept at the source (which would require concept manipulation type 3), they would still be able to act as only a source.
 
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imZer0Null said:
I believe in this case it should be immunity, since no matter how powerful the soul & mind hax might be, if it doesn't affect the memories kept at the source (requires concept manipulation to do this), they would still be able to act as only a source.
Click to expand...
I mean, the fact that they still have memories still implies that they somehow can be mindhaxed, despite the memories being keeped in soul, source or whatever, the only thing that should be Immunity is indeed the lack of it, but as I said, if the wiki treats MG and tensura case as Immunity, it qualifies, yea
 
It would be strange if he didn't have memories.... But as stated above, since these are similar cases, it can also be taken as such.
 
uh, this isnt immunity, this is unconventional resistance, immunity mean she cant be effected at all by it, but he still can to a degree
 
Bernkastelll said:
.
Click to expand...
They can probably still be mind haxed if the specific mind hax can affect memories kept at their concept, but that would require concept manipulation type 3, and such abilities are no longer purely mind hax, so they ofc wouldn't have immunity to such abilities.
 
imZer0Null said:
They can still be mind haxed if the particular mind hax can affect memories kept at their concept, but that would require concept manipulation type 3, and that is no longer purely mind hax, so they ofc wouldn't have immunity such abilities.
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I know, thats the reason that I think that neither MG magicians or Rimuru should have Immunity to it, it sounds just like Unconventional resistance
 
Well, if it is accepted at Rim, then for Anos as well.
 
Bernkastelll said:
yeah, if the wiki accepts it to rimuru, it need to be accepted to anos, but if it get rejected to one of them, the other need to have it removed as well
Click to expand...
I could see the Rim supporters rejecting the thread, now they will have to accept it.
 
I'm fine with either immunity or unconventional resistance tbh, since only soul & mind hax which can affect type 3 concepts would be able to bypass the resistance.

I still believe this is immunity tho, since you need concept manipulation type 3 to bypass it, and concept manip =/= soul & mind manipulation.
 
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imZer0Null said:
Hello. This thread was created to possibly give some characters from Maou Gakuin Immunity to Soul & Mind Manipulation.

From Rimuru Tempest (Web Novel)'s profile:



Take note that I'm only using the above as a reference, and I won't be using it as a reason for the CRT to be accepted.

From LN Volume 1 Keyword:



So, similar to Rimuru, "good magicians" in Maou Gakuin can keep their memories at their source, and even if their body perishes, as long as their source is intact, they can be revived.

Reasons why I believe this could possibly grant Immunity to Soul & Mind Manipulation:

1. Memories kept at the source =/= Mind and thoughts. Being able to affect someone's mind and thoughts doesn't automatically mean you can affect memories that are kept at their concept (source).

2. From LN Volume 1 Chapter 6:



The source exists deeper than the body, soul and mind, so if someone is able to function with ONLY their source, then obviously they don't need their body, soul or mind to function.

3. From WN Chapter 29 :: English MTL

During Anos' fight with Ivis, Anos was killed by having his time accelerated infinitely. Basically, his body aged an eternity. Anos only has longevity, and he himself stated he can't live an eternity, so unless the soul and mind can remain intact after literally ageing past their limit, it's safe to say that Anos' body, soul and mind were erased. After being aged an eternity, Anos revived himself from ONLY his source, meaning he was able to cast magic while not having a body, soul and mind.
Anos himself also states that "those who have mastered magic" can use magic from ONLY their source.

4. From WN Chapter 401 :: English MTL

During Anos' fight with Wesnera, Anos was incapacitated. He was actively being affected by paralysis inducement, power nullification, perception manipulation and mind manipulation, which he didn't resist. Despite being incapacitated by these abilities, Anos was still able to act as ONLY a source. Anos was able to move his source out of and back into his body while incapacitated, which allowed him to adapt to the abilities.

Based on the information above, I think any characters who are able to cast magic from ONLY their source should get the following:

Immunity to Soul Manipulation & Mind Manipulation (Good magicians can keep their memories at their source, which is the basic concept of existence that exists deeper than the body, soul and mind, and even if their body perishes, as long as their source is intact, they can be revived. In other words, they can "think" with their source and are thus immune to abilities that affect the soul or mind)
Click to expand...
Agreed
 
InfiniteCosmology said:
I was just telling to add 7A+ durability, anyways I will delete that post.
Click to expand...
That's fine. Thank you.
The issue is that this CRT was only created to give some characters possible immunities. If you can calc that feat and the calc gets accepted, then you can also create a separate CRT for that upgrade.
 
It's Tensura that should lose the "immunity" part actually. It has nothing to qualify as such.
This kind of stuff only happen if you lack something entirely (and not always).
 
imZer0Null said:
Cool. Maou Gakuin characters are getting immunity then...
Click to expand...
I agree since it's pretty much the same to rimuru. But don't generalized since there's an actual feats in tensura that being able to think in an astral mode means mind affect is auto nullifies

in addition…. Sion's inherited ability "Full memory" is a special ability that can be remembered even if dead.
In other words, it enables thinking in the soul.
What that means is to invalidate all of the abilities of the mental control system. Furthermore, most of the damage to the mind is also nullified.
 
Doesn't really matter if it's immunity or unconventional resistance, what matters is to get a point across. Anyway i agree.
 
Rimuru will not lose immunity, he literally has a skill called "Immunity to mental manipulation", and also Ciel can take control of Rimuru's body and take over him
 
The source exists depper than body, mind, soul, Anos can resurrect himself from his source with its memories/mind intact, the source has something like that it does not depend on the mind or anything to act, unless it is being affected, actually it is seen that to affect Anos mind or soul you must be able to affect his source.
 
Dereck03 said:
The source exists depper than body, mind, soul, Anos can resurrect himself from his source with its memories/mind intact, the source has something like that it does not depend on the mind or anything to act, unless it is being affected, actually it is seen that to affect Anos mind or soul you must be able to affect his source.
Click to expand...
That we all know, what I meant is that more information specially based on Anos' unique source of perdition is currently being sought.
 
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