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Possible Goku Black weakness?

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C2_of_Omegon

C2_of_Omegon

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During the latest episode Vegeta makes comment on how Black is unable to fully bring out the power of the his Saiyan body as it is not his original. Thus, it would seem that while Black's power has gone up, it never went up as much as it could and thus allowed Vegeta to eventually overwhelm him.

This could also mean that 'Limited Reactive Evolution' needs to be taken off of Goku Black's profile. Vegeta's statement would mean that Black's power increasing is no different than any Saiyans but is impaired due to Zamasu inhabiting Goku's body. Either that or every saiyan gets the same ability, but I don't believe there is any basis to that other than King Kai saying that Saiyans can fight virtually anywhere.

NOTE: This statement also falls in line with when Ginyu stole Goku's body a Namek. Ginyu was unable to make the most of Goku's body either.
 
PostmodernD said:
I don't think it needs taken off the profile. It's clear he adapts quickly.
It might need to be noted under weaknesses or something though.
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My mindset was based on what we know. Zamasu is a fighting prodigy. A genius at combat. As such, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch if he figured out how to get a lot of mileage out of Goku's body. But, at Vegeta notes, he's a faker. An imitater, so there's only so far he can go.

However, I do admit that getting an ability taken of his profile may be a bit much. Then again, that's why I started this discussion.
 
We have to wait and see until the next episode.Remember Zamasu asks Zuno to tell him about everything he knows about Goku so he might know some secrets about increasing power which Goku might not even know so wait and see because the fight isn't over yet.
 
Well, previously Zamasu/Black did display the ability to quickly grow stronger, so I am uncertain.
 
Antvasima said:
Well, previously Zamasu/Black did display the ability to quickly grow stronger, so I am uncertain.
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But that could also be blamed on Zamasu/Black becoming more used to Goku's body. Black, before we knew he was Zamasu, made comments on how he still wasn't used to his form/body.

We also have to remember that the body he stole is Goku after the Universe 6 arc. Goku is incredibly powerful as we all know.

As such, if we take those two facts together, you then get this situation: the power was always there but Zamasu/Black was unable to originally access it, however. This would mean that Zamasu/Black wouldn't probably even feel as powerful because he couldn't tap into it, similiar to how Ginyu couldn't tap into the Kaio-ken in order to achieve a power level of 180,000 like Goku demonstrated.

As Zamasu/Black grew more accustomed to his new body, his power would increase as he could draw more from it. Goku at the time he met Zamasu, was much more powerful than him. Original Zamasu was 4-B while Goku was sitting close to 3-A without Kaio-Ken and was 3-A with it. As Zamasu continued to get used to his new body, he got closer and closer Goku's level of power, thus him feeling more and more powerful. This means that Zamasu would've been entering realms of power that he has never once held in his life and that would explain his intoxicated/obsessive/amazed statements about his 'growing' power. His power isn't truly growing, he was becoming acclimated to the power his body already held.

All of that combined with Zamasu/Black prodigious fighting skills culiminated in finally being able to go SSR. Also, while he had an advantage over SSB Goku and Vegeta, they were still able to fight him for a decent amount of time when they first faced Black when he went SSR. Vegeta went down early due to taking a blade through the chest, which would incapacitate most of the DB cast. Goku held his own all the way up taking a dircet hit from Black's Kamehaha. Yes, he was more powerful but not so much that the two couldn't compete with him. Also, Goku, Vegeta's and Trunks losses to Black and F!Zamasu can be more attributed to F!Zamasu's immortality and the two's near perfect teamwork added to Black's power.

Once you take all that into account, it shows why Zamasu/Black was able to grow so strong so fast: it was all about him becoming used to the true power of Goku's form, not about him expanding it any form.
 
When Goku got angry and surpassed Black he stomped Black, after adapting Black also got a new sword to match his power, if you watch the preview you can clearly see Black with a new weapon.

I can give like 10 different examples of Black explaining his power, all of them exactly what we have on his profile.

Also Black's various explanation>Vegeta's speculation.
 
RadicalMrR said:
When Goku got angry and surpassed Black he stomped Black, after adapting Black also got a new sword to match his power, if you watch the preview you can clearly see Black with a new weapon.
I can give like 10 different examples of Black explaining his power, all of them exactly what we have on his profile.

Also Black's various explanation>Vegeta's speculation.
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Goku experienced a rage boost, a temporary power-up that we've seen in DB before. (EX: Kid Gohan vs Frieza 2nd form). Black didn't adapt, he caught Goku's fist, took advantage of his surprise and blasted him through the chest, something that would, like with Vegeta being stabbed through the chest, take out must opponents.

Black then powered up to do his blade technique. F!Zamasu says that he can feel his power surging up. Again, any time anyone in DB puts a significant amount of energy into a technique, characters comment on it. EX: Goku's Instant Kamehaha on Cell. Goku put enough energy into that Cell and the Z fighters thought Goku was going to risk firing it and blowing up the planet. Black also never comments on his own power when he uses his blade technique. He simply said that Goku's anger makes him feel good.

Everything that happened in that battle has been seen before and with logical explantions.

Also, we know what the Saiyan body can do, what it can't and how it works. Unless Black has done some modifications to it that we don't know about...

Also, sorry but Black's (A Kai) statements of his SAIYAN body that was built up and trained by ANOTHER person vs. the observations of Vegeta, another SAIYAN (who has taken his body from a power level 18,000 to the level of a God over the course of his life) with decades of experience and training with the same cabablities inborn to him? That just doesn't make sense to me.

Again, I'm saying that Black's progress is due Goku's immensley powerful body/saiyan heritage combined Zamasu's prodigious skills.

Inherently powerful body fused with fighting prodigy>some power we know the body never had originally.
 
Hmm. TheC2 seems to have a good point. So, do the rest of you think that we should remove reactive evolution from Black's page?
 
This is somewhat conjecture on my part, but I want to add to what TheC2 said. Zamasu, being of the Kai race, has God-ki. And when he stole Goku's body, it was after Goku achieved SSJB. So Zamasu being a God-ki user, may arguable be more accustomed to controlling that type of energy better than Goku, therefor, had a superior SSJG form in the form of SSJR.

So even if he did have a disadvantage using a body that wasn't his, that might be counteracted by the fact that the body has a known god-form, and Zamasu is a seasoned God-ki user.
 
Where do you get info that his body was stolen after U6?

And it obvious that hurting hiim makes him stronger,he even made comment after first GOku vs Goku black battle
 
It was just Vegeta spouting poetic nonsense. Black has shown greater recovery time and greater+faster power increases. Better then anything Goku or Vegeta either demonstrated
 
LuciferSPN said:
Where do you get info that his body was stolen after U6?
And it obvious that hurting hiim makes him stronger,he even made comment after first GOku vs Goku black battle
Click to expand...
It's based off the fact that Zamasu never met Goku until after the Universe 6 arc was concluded. It was only after their sparring match that Zamasu grew obsessed with Goku's power. We know that present day Zamasu would have gone on to use the Dragon Balls to switch bodies Goku. However, Trunks' time traveling changed the past which led to Beerus erasing Zamasu, thus preventing those events from occurring. If Zamasu/Black didn't have the time ring to be immune to alterations in the timeline, he would be dead. It is simply impossible for Zamasu to know about Goku at any other point and if there was one, we don't know it.

Also, don't forget that Black's statements were made when we knew nothing about him and thus anything was possible. Anything was fair game. However, we now know that Goku Black = Zamasu in Goku's body. Thus with mystery cleared up, we have to look back at everything based off what we now know and see what that new information could shed light on, not continue looking at everything at face value.

Unless, you can disprove about when they met, Zamasu/Black stole a body of someone far more powerful than himself (an almost 3-A body while Zamasu was sitting at 4-B) and then took time to acclimatize himself through fighting. He 'grew' more powerful because he was capable on drawing more from his new body.

Also, it's simply based on the fact the only way that the body could be different from Goku's (as it is Goku's) is if Zamasu did something to it, which there is no evidence of outside speculation.
 
LordAizenSama said:
It was just Vegeta spouting poetic nonsense. Black has shown greater recovery time and greater+faster power increases. Better then anything Goku or Vegeta either demonstrated
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Yet nothing you said isn't something that I already explained and given a reason for. He's got a body that was already on par with Goku and Vegeta. And of the latest episode, how did Vegeta manage to completely lay him out?

Black makes not comments on how he should be getting stronger or the like. By you're logic, he should have kept getting stronger as he was pummuled and that definitely wasn't the case. Remember Black had been fighting for sometime after Goku and Vegeta left. So, he should have kept getting stronger and thus, should have been able to at least fight back. Instead he was left almost helpless, wondering why Vegeta is so much stronger than him.

Vegeta's statements are based on pride and his observations. He and Goku have been fighting and getting their butts kicked but were able to recover and grow stronger (just like they've always done). Vegeta then used training to push himself over the edge. He, a true Saiyan, overcame an imposter. It's that simple.
 
So Base Goku with God Ki>Vegeta in Super saiyan blue. Interesting. and Skills have nothing to do with no selling his hits.
 
MeleeniumRXJ said:
So Zamasu being a God-ki user, may arguable be more accustomed to controlling that type of energy better than Goku, therefor, had a superior SSJG form in the form of SSJR.
Click to expand...
This doesn't even make any sense, since SSJR is an alternate version of the normal SSJ state, not SSJB.
 
This doesn't even make any sense, since SSJR is an alternate version of the normal SSJ state, not SSJB.

SSJB is just the SSJ form using Godly Ki. As Goku Black already has Godly Ki, his SSJR is similiar in nature but not exactly the same due to circumstances.
 
FrancoGYFV said:
MeleeniumRXJ said:
So Zamasu being a God-ki user, may arguable be more accustomed to controlling that type of energy better than Goku, therefor, had a superior SSJG form in the form of SSJR.
Click to expand...
This doesn't even make any sense, since SSJR is an alternate version of the normal SSJ state, not SSJB.
Click to expand...


We don't really know that. Why wouldn't Black use Goku's SSJB state if its available to him?
 
This doesn't even make any sense, since SSJR is an alternate version of the normal SSJ state, not SSJB.


We don't really know that. Why wouldn't Black use Goku's SSJB state if its available to him?

Maybe he doesn't know how to but we do know that supposed to be the same difference between base as super saying
 
Please stop repeatedly quoting each other. It spams the page.
 
Reactive evolution should not be removed from black goku's page its obvious black goku will get stronger in next episode and probably surpass Vegeta you can see Vegeta's suprised face in the preview and black goku with a new weapeon that looks like it can open holes in space and time
 
MeleeniumRXJ said:
We don't really know that. Why wouldn't Black use Goku's SSJB state if its available to him?
Click to expand...


Actually, we do, since it was confirmed here that Black's "Super Saiyan Rose" is just Goku the same as Goku's "Super Saiyan (not Blue)" state.
 
TheC2 said:
SSJB is just the SSJ form using Godly Ki. As Goku Black already has Godly Ki, his SSJR is similiar in nature but not exactly the same due to circumstances.
Click to expand...


Well, but since when did Zamasu had Godly Ki?
 
LuciferSPN said:
It was never said SSJ rose is god form.It's more likely it's not god ki form,since Trunks can sense it all time
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Yeah, but this also the series that had Trunks able to even land hits on Future Zamasu and Black when he had nowhere near the power at the time to be able to do that.

At the same time, we know that proabably Kais have mortal and godly ki, because they have been sensed by mortal beings in the past and yet they are gods, so they should have godly ki. Also, according to Akira Toriyama, Goku made SSJGSS blue, meaning that anyone who obtains the form could theoritically have turned it to whatever color they wanted. Also, if it's just normal SSJ, why isn't the typical color?

The biggest problem I'm seeing is that there is no clear cut explanation (yet) and evidence enough to support either side of the argument. In addition, and I'm the only thinking that the explanations in DB Super seem to be very basic at times and just enough to keep the story rolling? It make sense given that I've heard that the DB Super anime & manga are based on drafts created by Toriyama and then adapted into the show and comic, respectfully.
 
This is stupid, Vegeta speech means nothing expected sounding cool. Black got stronger while fighting Vegeta as seen when he grabbed Vegeta's punch. But Vegeta revealed he was holding back, the gap in power between them was too big for Black cover that shortly.

Black's biggest power is to get stronger with pain. Trunks, Goku, and Vegeta noticed this. Even Black said. "The more pain this body receives the stronger it gets"

That was right after enraged Goku.
 
Wait, what? Toriyama said that Goku "made" SSGSS Blue? AFAIK, the only one that "chose" the color of a form was Freeza (with his Golden Form).

And about his hair not being Yellow: it's probably a side-effect of having Goku's body and Zamasu's mind, since Ki is formed by both mind and physical energy.
 
FrancoGYFV.
No, Frieza is the only who actually said to have made his transformation a pariticular color in the show. That is a statement by the character. This was a statement by the creator, supposedly. Apparaently Toriyama claimed that Goku made his hair light blue because to show "by overcoming a certain limit he has become both strong and tranquil, able to keep his composure in a fight".
 
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