• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Possible Dark Souls massive upgrade

The more I think about it, the more I genuinely believe the lightning in the Gael fight is just game mechanics.

First of all, since the lightning actually deals massive damage, the Ashen One has below building level durability. Cloud to ground lightning a.k.a real lightning is building level in attack potency via our energy chart. And the Ashen One can be killed by this lightning (nothing special about this lightning either) That is contradictory is it not?

Second, if you consider that part game mechanics but dodging it as legit, then your cherry picking. You'd be ignoring one fact just to further push the credibility of the other.

Note that this is not sunlight a.k.a Dark Souls special lightning. It's normal lightning. If we don't accept it hurting the Ashen One (a lot mind you) if it does hit you, than we can't accept dodging it.
 
The lightning doesn't deal massive damage, and damage is a game mechanic otherwise end game ashen one would have human durability because he can still be killed by the first enemy in the game.
 
@Sera

Perhaps the lightning was empowered by Gael's magic?

Because afaic, there are plenty of times with ground-sky lightning in Dark Souls, and not only that, they work just like lightning.
 
@Sera You...do realize we scale a LOT of characters to lightning despite the fact that it shouldnt hurt them due to their durability right?
 
WeeklyBattles is technically correct. Within fiction, lightning recurrently causes far more damage than the real version.
 
Why are treating lightning so inconsistently?

Never mind. This isn't the place for that.
 
Well, there are no perfect solutions when gauging character statistics, and we have to scale from something. If the author clearly intends it to function like real lightning, with the exception of being more powerful, we have to give him or her a certain leeway.
 
There are no rules in the Game Mechanics page that specifically states speed feats from in-game cannot be used for a calculation.

examples include hit points, levels, stats, world map crossing in seconds outside cinematics, etcetera
But then, said page only seems to talk about destruction feats from the game, and nothing about speed.
 
True. Should we change the pages then? I think a calculation should be made for the lightning dodging feat since the same thing was done with bloodborne.
 
The lack of analysis here is bothering me. So I guess I'll explain in detail why the lightning in the Sir Knight Gael fight isn't true lightning dodging.

Short answer: Aim-Dodging

Long Answer:

1. The lightning can easily be dodged because you know where it is going to strike (certain spots on the ground glow blue). That is no different than dodging gunfire because you moved as soon as you saw someone aim the gun at you. That doesn't make you faster than a bullet now does it?

2. The lightning attacks do not aim for you. They are randomly placed all throughout the "third" phase of the fight.

3. Considering how fast Gael is moving and aggressive he is in the fight, you are always rolling or running around, obviously you'd be quick stepping around the lightning because you're constantly moving. This is just like how, if someone is firing an automatic weapon at you but you are constantly moving, just because you aren't getting hit by a barrage of bullets doesn't make you faster than a bullet.

This isn't even about game mechanics. It's simply about evaluating the feat instead of looking at it and going "OMG upgrade time!". I can extensively argue that gameplay speed feats should be evaluated carefully due to game mechanics, but that's another story.
 
@Ven

1. If you can still move at comparable speed to the lightning, then a calc can be drawn from it. I also ask, is it possible for you to dodge after the attack is fired? How players play can vary the results greatly. Some dodge attacks before they're launched, while others do it afterwards.

2. That doesn't really matter. Again, if you can move at speeds even remotely comparable to the lightning, then we can calc from that.

3. And? I don't see how that's relevant.
 
It takes a while for the lightning to actually hit. Literally giving you enough time to react (give or take two to three seconds). This is again, no different than dodging gunfire.


I'm sorry but if we accept that, we have a serious problem with how we analyse gameplay.
 
As I said, just what happens in a game depends on what the player does. If you are able to dodge after it's fired, we can scale off of it.
 
Show me where the Ashen One moves even remotely comparable to Lightning, and I can support this.

Otherwise: Dodging lightning, even without aim-dodging, can range from Supersonic to Hypersonic+ speeds.

Aim-dodging example: You see the glow on the ground and move out of the way before the lightning even comes down.

Actual dodging example: The attack is occuring, but your character rolls 1.5 meters to the right to save himself.

let's take a high end of 200 meters for the distance between the ground and a lightning cloud. Dodging as soon as the attack triggers.

440,000 m/s is the speed we use here for lightning, which is Mach 1240 something.

Let's say the Ashen one dodges as soon as the lightning starts traveling.

200 meters vs a 1.5 meter roll -- 1.5/200 = 0.0075

440,000 x 0.0075 = 3300 meters per second... Mach 9.62 Hypersonic for movement speed.

Unless someone shows me the Ashen One dodging while the bolt is already on screen, there is no upgrade.
 
If High Hypersonic+ is what you're going for. Okay then.
 
@Eliminator - that calculation is completely wrong. It is saying the lightning traveled 550 px (scaling to the Boss for whatever reason) when it had to have traveled from hundreds of meters in the air minimum. As soon as the Nameless King does the gesture, it triggers the attack from the CLOUDS, not at THAT HEIGHT. Also, the Ashen One can not dodge the attack once it has actually triggered, because he would be too slow. He has to dodge before then.

Look... The lightning bolt goes up into the clouds, and then comes back down. It does not come from the same height... lmfao. The player has to trigger the Ashen One to dodge before the bolt starts coming down, or else they will be hit.

When you use the weapon art of the Dragonslayer Sword-Spear, you call lightning from the clouds... not at your height.

@Mad - And when you're standing there, it hits you regardless. You can't dodge it from that distance as it is far too close and the character can not move out of the way.

I might as well do a calculation on this.

The Ashen One has to already clear the area before the bolt even shows up on screen.
 
@Cin

1. No, the distance the attack traveled doesn't need to be from the point of origin of the attack.

2. It wasn't scaled to the boss. It was scaled from when lightning first appeared on screen.

3. ChaosTheory123 already used the same method to guage the Hunter's reactions and it was accepted.
 
A more prominent example of my first point would be this from VsB's own.

Or these if you aren't convinced with the first.

Notice that the lightning traveled distance wasn't calculated from the origin
 
@Mad -

The Hunter's speed was actually accepted given that we can see the hunter's movements while the lightning is moving on screen. You're suggesting that the Ashen One is flat out clearing the area once the bolt is on screen when that is not the case, and the only reason the Ashen One is not hit by the bolt is due to rolling invincibility, and besides, he is still in motion, meaning he only moved a fraction of the distance being suggested.

the Ashen One can not dodge the bolt when it is already on screen. And if you trigger rolling invincibility while the bolt is falling, it can literally hit the legs, but not cause damage due to game mechanics.

Both links are for a panel feat where we are given a clear time-frame and movement. They have nothing to do with this feat in particular.
 
I'm also going frame-by-frame watching for when the lightning comes on screen for this Nameless King feat, and the Ashen One is moving a mere few centimeters between the time the bolt appears on screen, and has struck the ground.
 
1. Actually the Ashen one does move when hit by lightning in a similar manner to the hunter. He falls flat on the ground at 3:40 seconds (Aka full body length) I never once suggested that he clears the area in the time frame that it takes the bolt to hit onscreen. Thus this would be the same as the Hunter's calc

2. The examples that I posted were of calcs where the PoO of the attack wasn't the used as the distance. They merely serve as a deterrent to the "traveled to the clouds" argument.
 
If that's how the Hunter feat is being scaled, then it needs to be questioned as--in both cases, the character does not move at that speed on their own. The bolt slams them downward. If a person is struck by a semi and goes flying at 40m/s, does that mean that they are sub-sonic speeds? Absolutely not.
 
I think that VenomElite and CinCameron20 seem to make sense.
 
440000 m/s: http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1985JGR....90.8136T
 
@Gabriel - since I'm looking at The Hunter feat and it is apparently suggesting that we're using the speed of his recoil from being struck by the bolt, it should be dropped all together. Considering that we don't scale humans to the speed of free-falling, or recoil from being hit by a speeding vehical, this is a silly way to scale. We should instead be scaling the character movement speed in Dark Souls and Bloodborne for their rolling speed compared to cloud-ground lightning.

In the feat against the Nameless King that I linked earlier, the Ashen One moved several centimeters between the lightning bolt appearing on screen, and hitting the ground (roughly 3.5 meters). The speed is looking roughly Hypersonic+ ~ High Hypersonic material at best from what I see.

I would play around with this feat, but Lina already offered to do so, so I wait.
 
What i am saying is that the speed of lightning used in the calc linked is 98000 m/s, but here we use 440000 m/s.
 
@Gabriel - yes, but the result would remain MHS. The calculation is wrong anyways as it seems to be scaling speed from the hunter's body being moved by the bolt.
 
Guys you do realize the feat was already recalced with the speed we use, it's the one linked in the Hunter's profile, and it's of the Hunter actually reacting to lightning right...?
 
I'm still having trouble understanding the distance scaling for the arm and the lightning considering I literally don't see any scaling images, other than the comparison video, ofc.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Gewsbumpz_dude
  • Locked
The Dark Tower: High 1-A Upgrade
2
Replies
46
Views
8K
Ultima_Reality
Ultima_Reality
Shmeatywerbenmanjenson
A Massive Dark Souls CRT
2
Replies
64
Views
5K
Mr. Bambu
Mr. Bambu
Acertainbcplayer
  • Locked
1-A Toaru possible upgrade discussion thread
Replies
5
Views
835
Acertainbcplayer
Acertainbcplayer
SheevShezarrine
FromSoftware Discussion Thread
2 3
Replies
90
Views
7K
Lordhesperus
Lordhesperus
Armorchompy
  • Locked
Dark Samus/Metroid Prime (creature) Revision
2
Replies
67
Views
4K
Armorchompy
Armorchompy
Back
Top