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Pokemon's Verse Cleanup

Nemo212

Nemo212

802
126
So someone explain to me whether my thought process is right here or not.

- Ferroseed is Multi-City Block Level for being comparable to Horsea.

- Horsea is Multi-City Block Level because it can use Twister.

- Ferroseed cannot legally learn Twister.

- Therefore, Ferroseed is not comparable to Horsea. Ferroseed is not 8-A.

EDIT: Changed the title due to the realization that Horsea's calc is unreliable as well.

EDIT 2: Pokemon as a whole is a mess. This is now a general thread.

EDIT 3: This is less about statistics and more about the verse as a whole, so title changed.
 
If ferroseed can hurt Horsea then it would still scale. Both are minimum evolutions that aren't especially weak and so would still likely be comparable as Pokémon tend to fight each other.
 
So there's another problem that I have from looking at this more thoroughly, actually.

- The linked calc is for a tornado that is one kilometer in height and radius. Horsea using Twister is nowhere near comparable to that, so Horsea's AP is based on an unreliable statistic.
 
Okay, so from looking at this more thoroughly, it seems more and more that the issue lies less with Ferroseed and more with Horsea. It seems like every first stage on the wiki scales to Horsea's horrifically unreliable "feat?" This is kind of an emergency. New calc is desperately needed.
 
You should probably ask calc group members about the tornado calc. I remember there was a problem before about using what was apparently a strong tornado for every average tornado feat.
 
Mind filling me in? I'm aware of the tornado calc, and then Diglett's earthquake, which... isn't linked to in its page. Are there others?
 
Magnemite doesn't, actually. His justification is quite literally, "via power-scaling." You're thinking of Magneton, whose feat is Large Town level, and who is also not an unevolved Pokemon.

Pikachu, I also have a problem with, considering that we have an anime profile for Ash's Pikachu, and those are feats from Ash's Pikachu, who is definitely a special case. They shouldn't be on the profile to begin with. There's nothing else backing normal Pikachu up besides yet again, scaling from Diglett's nonexistent feat and Horsea's terribly unreliable one.
 
Here's something that complicates this even further.

Horsea never uses Twister in the anime or the manga. Your only sources for a Twister feat are going to be from Pokemon that are far more powerful than Horsea (ex: Milotic, Kingdra, Dragonair), or the games, which use the same animation for everything from Horsea to Arceus.

The game animations are pathetic (On purpose, might I add, since Twister is the weakest Dragon-type move). Your best bet will be the Gamecube games, which again, are nowhere close to a kilometer wide.

I think we all know the issue with the prior option of using other Pokemon as the basis for a calc.

Ball's in your court now.
 
Well, yeah. I'm trying to get them fixed for a reason.

Can someone explain to me why sub-relativistic Scyther exists? Fling isn't what I'd call justification for anything. Just by skimming Serebii , I don't see any items that would be heavier than a sizable rock (Adamant Orb, Arceus plates), car battery (Electrizer), cannonball (Iron Ball), or a room service cart (Room Service).

@Overlord775 Which generations would those be, exactly?
 
Yeah Pokémon as a whole needs a verse wide clean up imho, the problem being it's such a massive verse with TONS of material to work through, it definitely not going to be resolved quickly plus (given the time of year) there's simply not enough folks to help sort out the verse.
 
I beg to differ. The Supporters list has 72 members. How many more could possibly be needed?

This wiki as a whole has a massive problem with neglecting to start tasks because it would take too much time, or too much manpower. Even having one guy slowly updating profiles would be better than sitting around and doing nothing.

The first step to succeeding is starting.
 
After quickly skimming through some Pokémon threads there are plenty of contentious issues that need to be resolved:

  • Better, more concrete justifications for the regular mons: assuming first stage mons can use moves at the same/similar potency as evolved mons or even legendaries is pretty iffy to me plus in such a big verse using a couple very specific feats to justify the tier of numerous of characters isn't reliable.
  • There's currently a bunch of threads revolving around Pokémon right now from concept mani, CT/LT avatar keys, this one etc so it's really hard to keep track tbh which in turn may make the Pokémon verse even more messer.
  • Lastly there needs to be stricter rules when it comes to scaling in the Pokémon verse (ofc we all know Arceus getting almost killed by a meteor is by far the biggest case of PiS in the verse) however I've noticed some dubious scaling recently but I'm going to hold off on that subject until more evidence is provided later down the road in the future (since there are going to be new usable feats in the Gen 8 games/anime/manga that might resolve some scaling issues).
TL;DR: I agree the Pokémon verse needs at minimum more watertight explanations, feats, calcs etc (but I'm aware it'll take time).
 
Nemo212 wrote: I beg to differ. The Supporters list has 72 members. How many more could possibly be needed?

That may be true but if you factor the time of the year (like I mentioned), inactive supporters, other verses the remaining active supporters need to work on etc. The numbers all of a sudden aren't that relevant.

While I agree threads/tasks being left unfinished is pretty bad, unfortunately that's par for the course on this site.

Also is expecting one person (even slowly) to update pages for an entire verse is pretty unfair.
 
To add to what Ionliosite said, it would be an editorial nightmare (border line impossible) to divide profiles/keys for the anime, manga, games, spin-offs, TCG etc.

I believe Game Freak themselves said the games, manga and anime are all canon to each other as well as saying there's only ONE Arceus (correct me if I'm wrong tho).

Hence why Pokémon is being treated as a special case.
 
The Axiom of Virgo said:
To add to what Ionliosite said, it would be an editorial nightmare (border line impossible) to divide profiles/keys for the anime, manga, games, spin-offs, TCG etc.

I believe Game Freak themselves said the games, manga and anime are all canon to each other as well as saying there's only ONE Arceus (correct me if I'm wrong tho).

Hence why Pokémon is being treated as a special case.
Click to expand...
But this doesn't mean that the non-Arceus Pokémon scale to each other. We already know that Pokémon has many universes in it and the anime and manga often have many different versions of the same characters meaning that they must take place in different universes. So why would the anime scale to the games and vice-versa if they don't take place in the same universe.
 
Basic Pokemon could be High 8-C, scaling to Rhyhorn. We just need to know how many joules of energy would needed to be produced to shatter a skyscraper.
 
I think scaling needs to be on a case-by-case basis, not universally applied. I can see scaling some more powerful Rock-types to Rhyhorn, but not say, Zubat, or Seedot, or Trapinch.

Magikarp surviving the Galactic Bomb is a pretty good feat, actually, especially when it appears that others, like Goldeen or Seaking, actually did not.
 
HenryWong122 said:
Basic Pokemon could be High 8-C, scaling to Rhyhorn. We just need to know how many joules of energy would needed to be produced to shatter a skyscraper.
Click to expand...
Shattering a skyscraper is an 8-A/Low 7-C feat
 
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