-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Pokemon Scaling Issue (IMPORTANT)
- Thread starter ProfessorKukui4Life
- Start date
-
- Tags
- pokémon
- Status
- 2,938
- 365
Matt, the reason I am pushing for this isn't because I don't think it's bullshit, it's because I haven't seen a rational argument from anyone debunking it yet. Unless you want me to post a wall of text here, I suggest you GO AND READ THE THREAD LINKED AT THE TOP and read all of my comments, as well as Seed's and J-man's.
Read them well, and don't post "it's bullshit and won't be accepted" without SOLID evidence that appears consistently against legend scaling. Please. Because this is the issue here.
Read them well, and don't post "it's bullshit and won't be accepted" without SOLID evidence that appears consistently against legend scaling. Please. Because this is the issue here.
- 16,953
- 4,848
- Thread starter
- #44
Cutting it short: People are trying to get 2-B trainers, champs, etc. accepted.The Everlasting said:
Disagreeing ofc but idk if anyone else is.
To know more, well, you should read the other thread sadly...
- 20,729
- 3,679
here you can find your answer, somewhere at the bottomThe Everlasting said:
- 12,239
- 1,112
>5B charuzard.
>2B lucario.
>emerald beat the regi Pokemon.
>zinnia fought latioos.
>lucario vs regi.
>manga lance.
>4A mystery dungeon protagonists.
>2B dusknoir.
>rainbow rocket episode.
Literally goes on forever.
>2B lucario.
>emerald beat the regi Pokemon.
>zinnia fought latioos.
>lucario vs regi.
>manga lance.
>4A mystery dungeon protagonists.
>2B dusknoir.
>rainbow rocket episode.
Literally goes on forever.
- 33,408
- 8,430
Read Amex's posts. I said and I quote,
"I should note that I do not give two ***** if we scale notable trainers. I just better not see a 2-B Youngster Joey and his Top Percentage Ratatta running around."
That's all. At the same exact time, I also believe that we should stick to what was agreed upon, however, Amexim notably has disagreements with this method. So yeah. I don't really care.
"I should note that I do not give two ***** if we scale notable trainers. I just better not see a 2-B Youngster Joey and his Top Percentage Ratatta running around."
That's all. At the same exact time, I also believe that we should stick to what was agreed upon, however, Amexim notably has disagreements with this method. So yeah. I don't really care.
- 12,239
- 1,112
Yeah agree with ta. Only what has been shown. No odd scaling.
- 2,938
- 365
So, am I a liar, PaChi? Was I wrong? Because I have only seen 1 argument that wasn't incredulity here when I'm typing this, and even then, it's still not a vary good one. Doesn't explain why Cyrus and Sun don't scale to each other, nor does it even bother to explain the literal plot discrepancy-- nor does it address any arguments about why Protagonists can't scale to the Legends they caught, and why no trainers can scale to them. It just repeated someone else's opinion.
- 2,938
- 365
Thanks J-man. But, yeah, there needs to be an argument that addresses this issue, otherwise we're lying to ourselves by saying trained Pokémon (and the Mystery Dungeon mons...?) CANNOT under ANY circumstances scale to legends-- when there is constantly more consistent showings of this ridiculous thing to be true than not.
- 33,408
- 8,430
I really get sick of highlighting Pokemon threads, but oh well.
- 12,239
- 1,112
MULTIVERSAL.
TIME TRAVELIBG .
GROVYLE..
TIME TRAVELIBG .
GROVYLE..
- 1,295
- 247
To be frank trainers shouldn't scale to their Pokemon, The matter is getting overcomplicated as it is imo.
- 33,408
- 8,430
Better give an argument for why or this will go on for another 50+ replies.TurboTriangle601 said:
- 12,239
- 1,112
Multiversal dusknoir grovyle exists.though. .
- 8,238
- 1,653
Basically I agree. While I am actually neutral for or against it... I tried to give reasons why or why not it won't / could be accepted. That's all he wants.. Arguments. Not opinions.
- 9,856
- 11,117
Well, I already stated what I wanted to state about this issue in the other thread. So... Yeah. Just announcing my presence. ovo
- 11,486
- 7,697
This.Matthew Schroeder said:
Also scaling every Pokemon character to people who in lore are supreme gods such as Dialga and Palkia is a huge no no. And hopefully everyone here can see the problem with 2-B Magikarp.
- 32,344
- 20,283
This thread is trash. Close it.
- 16,953
- 4,848
- Thread starter
- #61
Just incase, if this is getting rejected, we DEFINITELY need a discussion rule or something so this never happens again.
- 14,956
- 1,830
Real question is why do trainers even scale to their pokemon in the first place, that made no sense and when I saw that thread about it I knew something like this will happen.
- 33,408
- 8,430
We did. Last time we closed this, the other thread got derailed when discussing rationality, subjectivity and objectivity.
- 32,344
- 20,283
Which was just an excuse for people to try to ignore that PIS and outliers exist.
- 33,408
- 8,430
We explained it on the Pokemon Trainers and Digimon Tamers thread. Everything was expalined there.Rocker1189 said:
- 12,239
- 1,112
No.
Debate or explain.
"No" does not count.
Debate or explain.
"No" does not count.
- 15,407
- 5,723
Are doing this? Really? Jesus...
This isn't less or more PIS than any other instances of the CT being affected by lower stuff. I thought we accepted that stuff long ago.
This isn't less or more PIS than any other instances of the CT being affected by lower stuff. I thought we accepted that stuff long ago.
- 2,938
- 365
There's literally nothing logical to refute this scaling to my knowledge. It's so consistent that trained Pokémon can fight with legends that the times they don't scale are either evidence of that TRAINER not being strong enough, or OUTLIERS for the verse.
We say that it's an outlier for Pikachu to harm Arceus in his movie. By itself, that's logically acceptable. Arceus is stronger than Dialga and the others, and yet Pikachu hurt Arceus, a being who is infinitely beyond beings infinitely beyond Pikachu.
If that was the only instance of Arceus being harmed by non-legends, that would be the end of it. However, Arceus-- in the same movie-- was harmed by Meteors and other pokémon-- all of them were owned by humans and could be argued to have the strength boost Mons could get while TRAINING-- and Arceus was, of course, weakened without his plates, and Pikachu's harming Arceus is an outlier for Pikachu himself, and wouldn't upgrade him unless we saw some more feats to make a Universal Pikachu possible.
All that to give just one example of Pokémon harming legends-- even the worst example makes us call into Question the limits of Arceus's power.
Let's just say it's a horrible example, Arceus-- pretend like that didn't happen at all, right?
We still have everything J-MAN listed, plus every Protagonist possibly harming Legends-- Pikachu vs Regice, Paul's team against the Frontier Pyramid leader Brandon-- it goes on forever.
We say that it's an outlier for Pikachu to harm Arceus in his movie. By itself, that's logically acceptable. Arceus is stronger than Dialga and the others, and yet Pikachu hurt Arceus, a being who is infinitely beyond beings infinitely beyond Pikachu.
If that was the only instance of Arceus being harmed by non-legends, that would be the end of it. However, Arceus-- in the same movie-- was harmed by Meteors and other pokémon-- all of them were owned by humans and could be argued to have the strength boost Mons could get while TRAINING-- and Arceus was, of course, weakened without his plates, and Pikachu's harming Arceus is an outlier for Pikachu himself, and wouldn't upgrade him unless we saw some more feats to make a Universal Pikachu possible.
All that to give just one example of Pokémon harming legends-- even the worst example makes us call into Question the limits of Arceus's power.
Let's just say it's a horrible example, Arceus-- pretend like that didn't happen at all, right?
We still have everything J-MAN listed, plus every Protagonist possibly harming Legends-- Pikachu vs Regice, Paul's team against the Frontier Pyramid leader Brandon-- it goes on forever.
- 12,239
- 1,112
Amexim, arceus actually not an example.
Regi, weather, lunar. Actual examples.
Regi, weather, lunar. Actual examples.
- 32,344
- 20,283
Multiversal Ash and Magikarp super logical!!!
- 2,938
- 365
Everyone keeps saying it's PIS without giving a RATIONAL justification and a SOLID argument as to why. My God.
Also, trainers don't scale to their pokémon? What? Do they not have their pokémon on their profiles? At this point, it isn't us that are ignoring Outliers and PIS as concepts, but it is you all who are refusing to acknowledge actual stuff that is in the verse.
Also, trainers don't scale to their pokémon? What? Do they not have their pokémon on their profiles? At this point, it isn't us that are ignoring Outliers and PIS as concepts, but it is you all who are refusing to acknowledge actual stuff that is in the verse.
- 15,332
- 7,561
Can you please list said "actual stuff"?
Is the Holy Hack n'Slash Trinity 3-A? All of them have outliers on this level.
Is the Holy Hack n'Slash Trinity 3-A? All of them have outliers on this level.
- 12,239
- 1,112
Dark pokemon and consistent do not exist.
- 12,239
- 1,112
TheJ-ManRequiem said:
- 15,407
- 5,723
You guys do realize that all this nonsense would only make the CT getting downgraded instead of literally the whole verse getting upgraded, right?
- 9,738
- 1,523
It's something that we admins decided to maintain consistency if we get hated for this, we will not care since that's rediculos and stupid, so it doesn't need a rational justification. Other wiki's don't allow 4-B Cell and Sephiroth, here we don't allow 2-B trainers simple, the others gotta deal with and don't complain. If Pokémon is not consistent, we regulate it to make it consistent and disgregard a lot of pitiful PIS moments.
- 26,325
- 3,114
the entire Arceus and the jewel of life film is PIS storm
- Status
