Pikachu Upgrade (Blue Orb)

[Glitch_Trainer_MangleMan25]

Hello, I've recently remembered something important about Pikachu: he's transformed before using the Blue Orb.

If anyone else remembers, he was infected by the Blue Orb and went through a primal rage, even being able to take control of base Groudon.

I think this should be added to anime Pikachu's page, as it should count as an alternate transformation, and he should gain a new set of abilities while taking over Groudon's body.

I already have an image ready if the conclusion come to is an a-okay.

And alongside the image, a new separate part of the key should be added for this along with the new stats, resistances, immunities, and abilities Pikachu gains in this form controlling Groudon.


Blue Orb Pikachu

 

[Glitch_Trainer_MangleMan25]

And no, this shouldn't count as an outlier either, as he clearly underwent a gigantic boost in power.

 

[Glitch_Trainer_MangleMan25]

Bump

 

[The_Calaca]

Interesting. What are those abilities and resistances that would be added?

 

[Glitch_Trainer_MangleMan25]

Interesting. What are those abilities and resistances that would be added?

Pretty much everything that base form Groudon has, as he takes full control of Groudon when he is transformed under the Blue Orb. This should also give him a High 6-A form due to scaling off of Groudon directly.

 

[Imaginym]

Frankly, I'm skeptical about the claim that Pikachu takes control of Groudon, as well as the claim that it has Groudon's abilities. Groudon's tier is slightly LESS of a maybe.

The episodes where this occurs: https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/AG097

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/AG098

I recall watching them a while back, & although my memory on dialogue & such is foggy, the episode summaries are fairly detailed. I'm a bit lazy to hunt down the episode footage myself for better reference.

Looking into it, it seems that the Blue Orb (Groudon's Orb) goes into Pikachu's body. Similarly, the Red Orb (Kyogre's Orb) later goes into Archie's body. I don't recall the scene of Archie absorbing the Red Orb, but here's how Bulbapedia describes it....

"Suddenly, the Red Orb he's holding absorbs into his hand, in the same way the Blue Orb did with Pikachu. Archie screams, then laughs insanely as the orb's throbbing markings appear on his chest."

Notably, possessed Archie is able to sic Kyogre on Brock & May after they have Beautifly & Mudkip unbalance his helicopter. It also listens to him & reacts (with an ineffectual giant wave) when Archie warns it of an incoming Solar Beam.

Bulbapedia says this about Pikachu absorbing the Blue Orb:

"Suddenly, a quick cutscene shows an opening eye and a growl, and the Blue Orb starts to glow and absorb itself into Pikachu's body. Pikachu writhes in pain briefly, and at Maxie's suggestion, Tabitha takes the opportunity to have the Mightyena attack. Hearing them, a possessed Pikachu turns around and defeats all three with a supercharged Thunderbolt. Pikachu sways back and forth from the strain,"

Further into the episode's summary:

"Pikachu is still in pain from having absorbed the Blue Orb. Suddenly, he glows with those red markings again and breaks free of Ash's grip. He then basically goes insane, letting out massive bursts of electricity everywhere, including one that just misses Ash, before finally fainting from the strain."

"Still captive in Team Magma's helicopter, Ash is holding Pikachu, trying desperately to calm him down as he goes insane again, letting out bolts of electricity everywhere. Ash is getting hurt, but won't let go of Pikachu this time."

The next episode:

"Kyogre's disturbance causes a tremor that makes the downed Magma helicopter to shift, throwing Ash and Pikachu around. The same tremor throws Lance and Maxie to the ground. Inside, Pikachu awakens, and his body is taken over by the orb again. He goes insane again, and one of his attacks causes a small hole that's just big enough for him to leap through. He does so and runs off."

Later on, Pikachu channels lightning from the storm for a power up. One of the biggest lightning bolt hits Pikachu & Groudon's containment box, awakening Groudon. Then a volcano erupts as Groudon awakens. Pikachu soon after lands on Groudon's head, & later helps it by using a super-powered Thunderbolt to stop Kyogre's Hydro Pump that was aimed at Groudon.

Apparently, it's after Solar Beam lands a powerful hit on Kyogre that Archie's body begins rejecting the Red Orb. It emerges from his body, & he faints. The same thing then suddenly happens to Pikachu, who faints & falls off of Groudon's head.

Pikachu falls into the ocean, Ash jumps in after, Kyogre rescues both and....

"Max then points out the two orbs, rising in the air and circling each other. They combine into one, and then dissipate. Groudon and Kyogre stare at each other briefly, and now that neither of them is linked to an orb, they retreat back to their respective lairs: Groudon into the volcano, and Kyogre to an ocean trench. Lance and the others discuss the day's events, and Lance says that the two legendary Pokémo will start a new world, as Ash wonders where they'll go."

RIP Red and Blue orbs apparently. Also, Kyogre & Groudon creating a "new world"? Like a new community of Pokemon? May need to check dialogue for that.

So yeah. The Blue Orb caused Pikachu pain, strain, fatigue, made it go berserk, resist Ash, & deliberately awaken & help out Groudon. All the while, Pikachu ONLY used electricity abilities. Albeit, amped ones, even without channeling Kyogre's storms.

But the closest it came to USING Groudon's own abilities was using lightning to awaken an imprisoned Groudon and only THEN, after Groudon awoke, did Drought trigger.

Notably, in this form, Pikachu stopped one of Kyogre's Hydro Pumps with a Thunderbolt.

Pikachu definitely wasn't acting like itself, given it defied Ash & gladly ignored him. I'd dare say it was under Groudon's control. By contrast, Archie with the Red Orb in him controlled Kyogre, rather than the other way around. Human bias by the orbs?

And as mentioned above, when Kyogre took a big hit, the Red Orb exited Archie's body, he fainted, & for reasons I'm not clear on -if there are any- Pikachu lost its orb too, and also fainted. So, damage suffered by the Legendary also occurs for the Orb-affected, too?

Viewing the episodes might still help divulge some stuff. In any case, I hope this can help draw some conclusions.

 

[Glitch_Trainer_MangleMan25]

Frankly, I'm skeptical about the claim that Pikachu takes control of Groudon, as well as the claim that it has Groudon's abilities. Groudon's tier is slightly LESS of a maybe.

The episodes where this occurs: https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/AG097

https://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/AG098

I recall watching them a while back, & although my memory on dialogue & such is foggy, the episode summaries are fairly detailed. I'm a bit lazy to hunt down the episode footage myself for better reference.

Looking into it, it seems that the Blue Orb (Groudon's Orb) goes into Pikachu's body. Similarly, the Red Orb (Kyogre's Orb) later goes into Archie's body. I don't recall the scene of Archie absorbing the Red Orb, but here's how Bulbapedia describes it....

"Suddenly, the Red Orb he's holding absorbs into his hand, in the same way the Blue Orb did with Pikachu. Archie screams, then laughs insanely as the orb's throbbing markings appear on his chest."

Notably, possessed Archie is able to sic Kyogre on Brock & May after they have Beautifly & Mudkip unbalance his helicopter. It also listens to him & reacts (with an ineffectual giant wave) when Archie warns it of an incoming Solar Beam.

Bulbapedia says this about Pikachu absorbing the Blue Orb:

"Suddenly, a quick cutscene shows an opening eye and a growl, and the Blue Orb starts to glow and absorb itself into Pikachu's body. Pikachu writhes in pain briefly, and at Maxie's suggestion, Tabitha takes the opportunity to have the Mightyena attack. Hearing them, a possessed Pikachu turns around and defeats all three with a supercharged Thunderbolt. Pikachu sways back and forth from the strain,"

Further into the episode's summary:

"Pikachu is still in pain from having absorbed the Blue Orb. Suddenly, he glows with those red markings again and breaks free of Ash's grip. He then basically goes insane, letting out massive bursts of electricity everywhere, including one that just misses Ash, before finally fainting from the strain."

"Still captive in Team Magma's helicopter, Ash is holding Pikachu, trying desperately to calm him down as he goes insane again, letting out bolts of electricity everywhere. Ash is getting hurt, but won't let go of Pikachu this time."

The next episode:

"Kyogre's disturbance causes a tremor that makes the downed Magma helicopter to shift, throwing Ash and Pikachu around. The same tremor throws Lance and Maxie to the ground. Inside, Pikachu awakens, and his body is taken over by the orb again. He goes insane again, and one of his attacks causes a small hole that's just big enough for him to leap through. He does so and runs off."

Later on, Pikachu channels lightning from the storm for a power up. One of the biggest lightning bolt hits Pikachu & Groudon's containment box, awakening Groudon. Then a volcano erupts as Groudon awakens. Pikachu soon after lands on Groudon's head, & later helps it by using a super-powered Thunderbolt to stop Kyogre's Hydro Pump that was aimed at Groudon.

Apparently, it's after Solar Beam lands a powerful hit on Kyogre that Archie's body begins rejecting the Red Orb. It emerges from his body, & he faints. The same thing then suddenly happens to Pikachu, who faints & falls off of Groudon's head.

Pikachu falls into the ocean, Ash jumps in after, Kyogre rescues both and....

"Max then points out the two orbs, rising in the air and circling each other. They combine into one, and then dissipate. Groudon and Kyogre stare at each other briefly, and now that neither of them is linked to an orb, they retreat back to their respective lairs: Groudon into the volcano, and Kyogre to an ocean trench. Lance and the others discuss the day's events, and Lance says that the two legendary Pokémo will start a new world, as Ash wonders where they'll go."

RIP Red and Blue orbs apparently. Also, Kyogre & Groudon creating a "new world"? Like a new community of Pokemon? May need to check dialogue for that.

So yeah. The Blue Orb caused Pikachu pain, strain, fatigue, made it go berserk, resist Ash, & deliberately awaken & help out Groudon. All the while, Pikachu ONLY used electricity abilities. Albeit, amped ones, even without channeling Kyogre's storms.

But the closest it came to USING Groudon's own abilities was using lightning to awaken an imprisoned Groudon and only THEN, after Groudon awoke, did Drought trigger.

Notably, in this form, Pikachu stopped one of Kyogre's Hydro Pumps with a Thunderbolt.

Pikachu definitely wasn't acting like itself, given it defied Ash & gladly ignored him. I'd dare say it was under Groudon's control. By contrast, Archie with the Red Orb in him controlled Kyogre, rather than the other way around. Human bias by the orbs?

And as mentioned above, when Kyogre took a big hit, the Red Orb exited Archie's body, he fainted, & for reasons I'm not clear on -if there are any- Pikachu lost its orb too, and also fainted. So, damage suffered by the Legendary also occurs for the Orb-affected, too?

Viewing the episodes might still help divulge some stuff. In any case, I hope this can help draw some conclusions.

Then you should rewatch the episode. The showings in the episode are more in-depth than the article on Bulbapedia. Not gaining Groudon's abilities? You realize that Pikachu summoned him in the first place, right? And it's with the Blue Orb that you can control and summon Groudon. It became a part of Pikachu in that moment, so it's clearly him who's in control.

And no, "slightly LESS of a maybe" as being Groudon's tier is highly inaccurate, as Pikachu himself was still able to disturb Groudon, as well as react to and counter a direct attack from Kyogre. That instantly shows he should qualify for the same tier.

Also, you say: "Notably, possessed Archie is able to sic Kyogre on Brock & May after they have Beautifly & Mudkip unbalance his helicopter." That would imply that Archie with the orb absorbed could control Kyogre, as by it's own free will later on, Kyogre saved Ash and Pikachu, who'd both been his opponents earlier. Shouldn't be any different for Pikachu, who was in direct control of Groudon as well. Not to mention his feat of countering a water blast from Kyogre, who is the same tier as Groudon anyway.

And you say that the closest Pikachu came to using any of Groudon's abilities was when Drought triggered. It doesn't matter if that's all we saw. We know Groudon has way more abilities than just that. And it's already completely obvious that via the Blue Orb, Pikachu was able to take control of Groudon, as when Groudon was freed of the Blue Orb's influence he simply retreated, similarly to Kyogre.

And on the Legendary suffering damage as well as the Orb-possessed, that only further proves my point that the Orb-user is in control of the Legendary. It's precisely why they're linked in such a way.

Anyways, from all you said, it just makes it even more clear he's got control over Groudon and is linked to him. Though it should be noted the form strains him severely, similarly to Goku's Kaioken I suppose.

 

[Imaginym]

First off, I know I made the first wall of text, but I'm pretty sure you shouldn't quote huge walls of text. I'm just going off what I read. Do you have an episode link you would recommend?

1. When Pikachu got the Blue Orb we see an eye flash, symbols begin pulsing, & Pikachu is visibly confused. When it entered Pikachu, it was painful. The orb's effects gave it further pain, made it faint, & made it disobey & ignore Ash, which is very out of character. If Pikachu WAS in control, it wouldn't be passing out, going berserk, or so ready to abandon Ash it'd attack him without hesitation, or at least, not attack blindly with no regard for Ash's safety.

None of those behaviours seem like Pikachu is in control, or its usual self.

2. From what I read, Pikachu channeled the power of Kyogre's storm for an electricity amp while on top of a metal box holding an unawakened Groudon, & the electricity & explosion awoke Groudon. Groudon's Drought began following said Awakening; If Pikachu did have Groudon's powers, Drought would have triggered much earlier. Additionally, even with the orb, Pikachu never showed any new moves; Just using amped electrical attacks. If you have proof otherwise, please show that.

3. "And no, "slightly LESS of a maybe" as being Groudon's tier is highly inaccurate, as Pikachu himself was still able to disturb Groudon, as well as react to and counter a direct attack from Kyogre. That instantly shows he should qualify for the same tier."

....In retrospect, given that this is an obviously different & obviously more powerful form (Powered up electric attacks, channelling Kyogre's storm, stopping Kyogre's Hydro Pump....), it could be possible to scale Pikachu to Groudon for this form.

4. Except that Pikachu didn't cause Drought itself, Groudon awakening did. Obviously Groudon has way more abilities, but Pikachu showed none of them. As for Pikachu controlling Groudon via the Blue Orb, I disagree about that. Especially when it's behaving out of character to try & beat Kyogre, normally one of Groudon's goals.

5. The Orb-possessed takes the damage the Legendary did... but as far as I know, this only happened for Archie, & shortly after, the Blue Orb left Pikachu, despite no damage to Groudon happening around that time for Pikachu to also experience, AFAIK.

6. I'd think comparing this to the Kaioken is a flawed comparison, as that inflicts bodily damage to the user after the technique's completion IF the user overuses it. This shows detriment throughout the possession, including fainting.

 

[Glitch_Trainer_MangleMan25]

Not an entire episode, but the scenes that're important to this whole thing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFLW7BgLtlY

1. No. Pikachu is in control. In control of Groudon. He is simply under the will of the Blue Orb. Possessed Archie with an orb absorbed was also able to command Kyogre. No difference here. Pikachu clearly has full control over him, and whether or not he's enraged is irrelevant to that factor. And you're missing the point, once again.

2. False. Thunder, an attack Pikachu is known to know, is lightning coming down from the sky. That's what the attack is, where is there ANY implication that he's channeling electricity? Pikachu has reins of Groudon, so Groudon's powers becomes his as he jockeys him and begins to control him. We do it for other characters who jockey/control a creature, this is no different.

3. He never channeled Kyogre's storm...He used Thunder to summon Groudon. But yes, he did counter Kyogre as well as amp his electrical attacks.

4. And Pikachu while using the Blue Orb is capable of controlling Groudon and is linked to him anyways already. All Groudon's abilities became his once he absorbed the Blue Orb and summoned him.

And no. Being "out-of-character" is irrelevant to Pikachu's control over Groudon. Groudon's actions were Pikachu's. Pikachu was clearly in a state of rage, and as soon as Pikachu was separated from the Blue Orb, Groudon retreated.

5. The Blue Orb didn't just randomly leave Pikachu, it left him because it was reuniting with the other orb Archie had just been in possession of. That's why it left him. Clearly linked anyway, possessed Archie proves it, and just saying "Pikachu didn't have that happen so means nothing" is just illogical.

6. I disagree, Pikachu's mind was in a state of rage, he couldn't have properly used the form even if he wanted.